Saudis move F-15s near Israel's border

i think israel should strike while they are still on the ground, oh well.. they wont win an airwar over israel anyways thats for sure..

Saudi Arabia has transferred much of its advanced F-15 fighter-jet fleet to the northern air force base at Tabuk near the Israeli border and within striking distance of the Jewish state, in an apparent violation of the kingdom's pledge to the United States.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Does Saudi Arabia have any real reason to move them there. I don't trust the Saudi's, they say one thing but always do something different.

Surely the Saudi's would not interfere if the Israelies decided to sort out the Arafat problem.

Unless any of the other Arab States are doing anything like this, maybe they are just setting up the chess peaces

Actually Saudi F-15s are to better standart than Israeli F.15s..

And Saudi Pilots are good. They can win.

And i think this has something to do with the Israel treathening to kill Mr.Arafat.. maybe Saudis are saying: Kill Arafat and we will drop LGB (Laser Guided Bomb..) down into Sharons asshole.

Just think what would happen if they used them against Israel or worse yet Israel took them out in a first strike as a defensive move.

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Actually Saudi F-15s are to better standart than Israeli F.15s..

And Saudi Pilots are good. They can win.

And i think this has something to do with the Israel treathening to kill Mr.Arafat.. maybe Saudis are saying: Kill Arafat and we will drop LGB (Laser Guided Bomb..) down into Sharons asshole.

A case of you kill one of the Arab Leaders (thats the way a lot of the arab people if not the Arab leaders see Arafat), we are going to kill yours.

Could the US and UK sit this one out with the amount of troops and support based in Saudi at the moment.

Originally posted by trinityschild

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Actually Saudi F-15s are to better standart than Israeli F.15s..

And Saudi Pilots are good. They can win.

And i think this has something to do with the Israel treathening to kill Mr.Arafat.. maybe Saudis are saying: Kill Arafat and we will drop LGB (Laser Guided Bomb..) down into Sharons asshole.

A case of you kill one of the Arab Leaders (thats the way a lot of the arab people if not the Arab leaders see Arafat), we are going to kill yours.

Could the US and UK sit this one out with the amount of troops and support based in Saudi at the moment.

Ill counter your gueston with a another gueston:

Does "coalition" afford to attack any Arabs from Iraq? As Iran would rush in with its massive and weel equipet troops.. "coalition" positions trough out middle east would be over run.. Including Israel. And US navy sunken on Persian gulf.

I think the "Coalition" would not interfere as long as the Saudi's where only defending the West Bank, Gaza etc. by using air power and purely on a reactive manner. I.e. They see a squad of helecopters in the air over the West Bank hunting for Bear, then maybe that is an ok target.

But I think the moment the Saudi's pre-empt anything I think that then it becomes a whole new ball game

Fulcrum, you ar full of shiite.

Saudi combat pilots have been in a hostile environment exactly ONE time in the last 30 years. They performed adequately, as any country's pilots would, after receiving from the US:

a) Years of intensive training, support and combat simulation.

b) The best fighter aircraft requiring the minimum amount of pilot input that oil money can buy.

c) A fleet of American F-15's, F-16's, F-14's and F-18's riding "shotgun" with you when you go out to fight the bad guys (Iraqis) near your own bases.

d) The benefit of American AWACS, EW aircraft and other airborn intelligence assets directing your fight.

Should the Saudi decide to attack the Israelis, the Israelis would have many different advantages:

1. Home field advantage. No fuel worries. Friendly airbases and territory. Ejected pilots quickly return to service.

2. Ground-based air defenses. How long do you think Saudi F-15's would be able to hold out against Israeli Patriot and Advanced Hawk AAW batteries?

3. Pure combat experience. Just go ask the Syrians what it is like to tangle with the IAF. To quote the Federation of American Scientists (www.fas.org):

"During this conflict (1973 War), Arab aircraft were largely ineffective in attacking Israel itself, and Israeli air defenses shot down 20 of the 25 Kelt air-to-surface cruise missiles. In the course of the war, more than half of the 900 Egyptian and Syrian aircraft were shot down, with two-thirds of these over 500 losses in air-to-air combat. Of the 350 Israeli aircraft at the outset of the war, 100 were shot down, almost all by ground fire. And Israeli air-to-air combat with Syrian air forces during the 1982 Bekaa Valley campaign inflicted 30% attrition in an hour-long melee, shooting down 29 aircraft without a single Israeli loss".

The Arabs have suffered enough bloody noses to try anything stupid again......

we also got the new Arrow-2 THEATRE BALLISTIC MISSILE DEFENCE SYSTEM
The Arrow 2 missile approaches the target at a maximum speed of Mach 9, or 2.5km/s, to a maximum altitude of 50,000km.



[Edited on 12-9-2003 by SectorGaza]

[Edited on 12-9-2003 by SectorGaza]

It's amazing how many people consider themselves qualified to speak for the government of Israel. No one has ever mentioned killing Arafat except Arafat himself. They expelled him symbollically. No one has even discussed the use of military force to throw him out of anywhere or do him any bodily harm. So I don't think it is the place of anyone here to make that decision or accusation for them.

Also I fail to see how one could consider the Saudi airforce superior to that of Israel, and take into account the ground defenses e.g. Arrows and Patriots and think that the Saudis would win this.

Not to mention the fact that Saudi Arabia is having PR problems of their own re: terrorism and doesn't need an attack on Israel to add to the deck stacking up against them.

The move was made some months ago, this isn't something that just happened.

Originally posted by Djarums
It's amazing how many people consider themselves qualified to speak for the government of Israel. No one has ever mentioned killing Arafat except Arafat himself. They expelled him symbollically. No one has even discussed the use of military force to throw him out of anywhere or do him any bodily harm. So I don't think it is the place of anyone here to make that decision or accusation for them.

Djarums nobody here is saying that the Goverment of Israel, is going to try and murder Arafat. To tell you the truth, I don't think there are many nation states that would try and murder such a visible arab leader (well apart from the US and the UK).

What I (we) are doing is suggesting why the Saudis may have moved their F15's closer to the border with Israel. Until I saw Mycroft's post I actually thought that this had just happened, and with Arafat declaring that he would not go I thought 2+2=4.

Also I fail to see how one could consider the Saudi airforce superior to that of Israel, and take into account the ground defenses e.g. Arrows and Patriots and think that the Saudis would win this.

Yeah the israelies would more than likely kick the Saudis backsides but still why did they move the F15's. Again I thought this had only just happened.

Not to mention the fact that Saudi Arabia is having PR problems of their own re: terrorism and doesn't need an attack on Israel to add to the deck stacking up against them.

The Saudi Goverment/Royal Family may never order an attack for the reasons you give. But pilots will follow the orders their superiors give them and there could be the problem.



[Edited on 12-9-2003 by trinityschild]

This is just posturing... I've seen Saudi pilots fly... Isreal has nothing to worry about. The Saudis would lose half their squadron before even hitting Isreali airspace!

You guys forgot the most important thing... The fact that Saudi has a huge debt, and it's like 1234890623689 times the debt of my country, wich is 600 bilions dollars, any thing they would do that US wouldn't like and the coutry crash. They won't attack...

[Edited on 12-9-2003 by Salem]

Fulcrum: "Does "coalition" afford to attack any Arabs from Iraq? As Iran would rush in with its massive and weel equipet troops.. "coalition" positions trough out middle east would be over run.. Including Israel. And US navy sunken on Persian gulf. "

Have you lost your mind?

Whether you like or dislike the US, it's policies, leadership, etc... or even would like to see it taught a lesson on the battlefield - Anyone who has a grasp on reality and has accurate information with which to form an opinion - would draw the conclusion that Iran's military, with all their experience, with all their "weel equipet troops" would get it's proverbial ass whipped if it even began mounting troops on the border of Iraq.

The leadership of Iran knows this -

Success in warfare is no longer measured by who can send a human wave of a million plus ak and rpg armed martyrs into another's territory.

In fact I would think that the Bush administration would like it very much if Iran were to provoke the US into sending the 4th infantry under the cover of the USAF all the way to Tehran.

Plus, as this very website atests too if you are to believe even a fraction of the information here, the US has far more advanced weaponery than laser and gps guided munitions, tanks and infantrymen. Some very nasty things were secretly tested in the Iraqi action - things that will certainly hit the mainstream in the next conflict... As someone who has Persian blood in their heritage I would hope that the Iranian leadership does not make the mistake you seem to wish upon them.

Originally posted by Pyros
Fulcrum, you ar full of shiite.

Saudi combat pilots have been in a hostile environment exactly ONE time in the last 30 years. They performed adequately, as any country's pilots would, after receiving from the US:

a) Years of intensive training, support and combat simulation.

Ok..

b) The best fighter aircraft requiring the minimum amount of pilot input that oil money can buy.

This is so..

c) A fleet of American F-15's, F-16's, F-14's and F-18's riding "shotgun" with you when you go out to fight the bad guys (Iraqis) near your own bases.

What?

d) The benefit of American AWACS, EW aircraft and other airborn intelligence assets directing your fight.

Saudis have their own awacs aircraft.

Should the Saudi decide to attack the Israelis, the Israelis would have many different advantages:

1. Home field advantage. No fuel worries. Friendly airbases and territory. Ejected pilots quickly return to service.

Yeah..

2. Ground-based air defenses. How long do you think Saudi F-15's would be able to hold out against Israeli Patriot and Advanced Hawk AAW batteries?

These missiles arent that effective..

3. Pure combat experience. Just go ask the Syrians what it is like to tangle with the IAF. To quote the Federation of American Scientists (www.fas.org):

"During this conflict (1973 War), Arab aircraft were largely ineffective in attacking Israel itself, and Israeli air defenses shot down 20 of the 25 Kelt air-to-surface cruise missiles. In the course of the war, more than half of the 900 Egyptian and Syrian aircraft were shot down, with two-thirds of these over 500 losses in air-to-air combat. Of the 350 Israeli aircraft at the outset of the war, 100 were shot down, almost all by ground fire. And Israeli air-to-air combat with Syrian air forces during the 1982 Bekaa Valley campaign inflicted 30% attrition in an hour-long melee, shooting down 29 aircraft without a single Israeli loss".

This isnt true. there is guncamera evidence for more than 70 egyptian aa victories durin 73, and Israelis lost MORE THAN 100 TO GROUND DEFENCES, and Egyptians and Syrians dind have 900 pilot or planes.

The Arabs have suffered enough bloody noses to try anything stupid again......

Well, really Arabs were smarter, they have understood that war doesnt bring anything good.. Israelis however still need to learn this.

So who is full of shyte Pyros?

Originally posted by intelgurl
Fulcrum: "Does "coalition" afford to attack any Arabs from Iraq? As Iran would rush in with its massive and weel equipet troops.. "coalition" positions trough out middle east would be over run.. Including Israel. And US navy sunken on Persian gulf. "

Have you lost your mind?

Whether you like or dislike the US, it's policies, leadership, etc... or even would like to see it taught a lesson on the battlefield - Anyone who has a grasp on reality and has accurate information with which to form an opinion - would draw the conclusion that Iran's military, with all their experience, with all their "weel equipet troops" would get it's proverbial ass whipped if it even began mounting troops on the border of Iraq.

The leadership of Iran knows this -

Success in warfare is no longer measured by who can send a human wave of a million plus ak and rpg armed martyrs into another's territory.

In fact I would think that the Bush administration would like it very much if Iran were to provoke the US into sending the 4th infantry under the cover of the USAF all the way to Tehran.

Plus, as this very website atests too if you are to believe even a fraction of the information here, the US has far more advanced weaponery than laser and gps guided munitions, tanks and infantrymen. Some very nasty things were secretly tested in the Iraqi action - things that will certainly hit the mainstream in the next conflict... As someone who has Persian blood in their heritage I would hope that the Iranian leadership does not make the mistake you seem to wish upon them.

Yeah, you belive this if you want.. i will not break your dream.

Br.Bush and US military will if they will ever engage in combat against Iran.. reality will speak for itself.

Well, really Arabs were smarter, they have understood that war doesnt bring anything good.. Israelis however still need to learn this.

This much is true...Terrorism seems to be a much better working tool than war for them, eh?

"Whether you like or dislike the US, it's policies, leadership, etc... or even would like to see it taught a lesson on the battlefield - Anyone who has a grasp on reality and has accurate information with which to form an opinion - would draw the conclusion that Iran's military, with all their experience, with all their "weel equipet troops" would get it's proverbial butt whipped if it even began mounting troops on the border of Iraq."






intelgurl, good points you have made but I fear, you like me (at first) do not understand the logic (motives) behind this guy's posts. I have come to two different conclusions about him..(1) that his arrogance is born out of ignorance of reality whether he has been educated toward this grand illusion he lives under or has chosen to fabricate it out of shear neccesity from fear of facing his own uselessness.

..or

(2) Knows the real score and is just a swallow and spit propagandist puppet.

Now, I lean toward the first and I'll tell you why.. propaghandist have to include a bit of truth in whatever they sell..only twisted to suit their needs at the time..and there are a few on here.(you all know who you are) but this guy seems to actually buy his own glass menagerie of twisted heres and nows. Maybe he's communicating from an alternate universe where up is down, down is up, night is day, and Iran is a superpower and the US is 3rd world. Who knows?

Anyway, you may find as I have that its best to not respond directly for much the same reason we don't look directly into the sun. It may seem like a good idea at the time, but all in all it just burns the brain because for two people to carry out a logical argument, certain common knowledge must be acknowledged.

I get your point, though. Keep up the good work.



[Edited on 12-9-2003 by astrocreep]