Confrontation between Mexican National Gaurd and Minutemen?

Heck, the Mexican Military could not find it's way out of a wet paper bag. Talking about wet, did you know that they got the term "wetback" from traversing the river to gain access to the U.S. back in the early '50s no kidding.

Originally posted by Odium
TrueAmerican, I actually thought you'd not fall into this trap. A wall will not stop terrorists. They come in legally, that's one of the most important aspects of it. They don't wish to be able to be arrested for things such as being an illegal immigrant so the wall will have no effect on them. It'll also only stop those immigrants who can't afford to pay gangs from coming in or resulting in them working for gangs to afford to come into the U.S. smuggling drugs in with them or dealing in drugs once in America to fund the debt they gained from coming into the Nation.

Well a wall may not help as much in regard to legal status terrorists, but it would help protect us in a scenario where a group of suicide bombers tried to enter the country illegally from either Mexico or Canada to commit a crime within weeks or less of them gettin here. So I somewhat disagree with that, Odium.

I feel that we would be safer all the way around with two big walls and sealed borders. Just my opinion, but I am sticking to it. I would support such a move on the two counts of help in limiting illegal immigration and help against such a terrorist scenario as mentioned above. As a supplemental move later we could seal the coastal areas to limit the chance of entry by water. But that might be overkill, and going to rediculous expense.

Walls are just another possible step in the whole security package, and should be kept in perspective. No it's not going to solve all the problems, but it would help overall, and would be worth it IMO.

TrueAmerican, wall would just mean instead of coming through Mexico they get on a plane, fly into America. Land, go buy items to maek bombs [which is easy], make it in a cheap hotel and go and do it.

No big wall will stop them if they want too, in fact it'd be harder work for them to illegally get into America than to do it legally.

Originally posted by Odium
No big wall will stop them if they want too, in fact it'd be harder work for them to illegally get into America than to do it legally.

Exactly my point, Odium, and that's what I'll put my money on, k?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Odium
No big wall will stop them if they want too, in fact it'd be harder work for them to illegally get into America than to do it legally.

Exactly my point, Odium, and that's what I'll put my money on, k?

Yes, it is would be harder work NOW and was harder work BEFORE the minutemen to get into American illegally than it would be to hop onto a plane so they wouldn't bother doing it.

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Regenmacher
One thing I don't hear on Capital Hill is to build a wall, too simple?

Of course it is too simple, you will still have roads going between Mexico and the United States.

We Need a Fence

Such a fence could be designed with up to two hundred legal crossing points to accommodate commerce, tourism and legitimate commuting. Although expensive in terms of initial outlay, in the long term it is both less expensive and more effective than any other solution currently being proposed.

Occam's Razor tells us to not assume more than what is needed and simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Same logic applies to locking your car doors, so you don't make your vehicle an easy opportunity for a thief

Only a border fence 2,000 miles long will safeguard our security

A similar fence in Israel dramatically reduced the number of Palestinian terrorist incursions and bombings in a much more openly hostile region. This is real border security with proven results.

More border agents are not the answer. A one-time investment of $8 billion would cover construction of a state-of-the-art border fence. This is an effective and relatively inexpensive way to prevent any repeat of inhumane and costly terrorist attacks.

Regenmacher, glad to see I'm not the only one here who is sticking to the border fence idea.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Regenmacher, glad to see I'm not the only one here who is sticking to the border fence idea.

It's K.I.S.S. to me, and too much time spent in DC jacking and yacking. We should of had the wall up already, instead sitting on a non-existant fence.

The Great Wall worked... time to take a clue from history.

Regenmacher, your sources forget to point out the differencens between Israel and the United States as well as what has been happening in Israel.

As for the Great Wall of China, worked? There have been four great walls, several of them actually failed.

Originally posted by Odium
Regenmacher, your sources forget to point out the differencens between Israel and the United States as well as what has been happening in Israel.

As for the Great Wall of China, worked? There have been four great walls, several of them actually failed.

A wall is the best solution, you have none. Luckily the Chinese didn't listened to you and become even greater victims of the XiongNu, Huns, Mongols and Manchus.

Living on an island talking policy is not the same as living near the Mexican border and experiencing it. Lucky the channel seperated you from Germany in the 40's ehh?

Arizona and California are going bankrupt due to the flood of illegal immigration and no I don't want to live in Aztlan!



ccir.net...

Your rhetoric is based on el loco ethnocentric ideas, like blind vatos describing an elephant...baaahh, go spend a year in Nogales, El Paso or Tijuana, then tell me something.

Usted no puede entender lo que usted no ha vivido.....


[edit on 15-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

What...

So you honestly think a wall will stop people legally coming into America and not leaving? How?

IT will just take them longer to save up for the "return" place ticket or the "return" bus ticket. It will give a temporary solution and result in the numbers going down for a few years until they level back up once more. The only way to stop Mexican's getting into the U.S. is to cut off all transport between the two Nation's [In fact South America] and deporting anyone that comes into the Nation. None of which will help anyway as it will result in more human trafficing and smuggling.

I don't understand how you can't see that a wall, will result in more gangs [like MS-13] exploiting people who wish to get into the U.S. and making even more money than they already do. Smuggling of immigrants exists, sorry to let you know and speaking as someone who is on an Island and has a high level of immigrants. No wall will help you. The whole ocean doesn't help us mate.

But you know what? I don't worry, because I know why people leave those Nation's and I know I can do my job better than anyone else. In fact, I love the competition from some immigrants and as for the others? Well they end up doing jobs no British person wants to do. It's something we need and you need in America. If you live in the South you'd know the number of factories being forced to take on immigrants because many people will not do the job.

I say make a deadline for all ilegals you now out by X -date or its open season

Originally posted by Odium
There are two options you have to deal with illegal immigrants.

The first of these is to punish them for being poor, for their nations lacking jobs and them being forced into a situation where they have to work to feed themselves and their family and America is an easy option.

Wrong! How about punishing them for BREAKING THE LAW and entering this country illegally. For every one person entering the country illegally, a slap in the face occurs to those who have worked hard entering this country legally.

Originally posted by Odium
So you honestly think a wall will stop people legally coming into America and not leaving? How?

The kinds of illegals that are coming in are not competition, they are a burden on the infrastructure and many are of the criminal class of a narco-republic.

I honestly think your ideas of legislating other controls is like talking about a valley that keeps flooding and wiping out villages while forgetting what a dam does i.e. control the flow. A wall will raise the cost involved in illegal immigration on the supply side, thus driving demand down. A wall is the most feasible and cost effective means to date.

Compare the numbers:

UK POP 60,441,457 which 570,000 are illegal immigrants is 0.9%
US POP 295,734,134 which 10,300,000 are illegal immigrants is 3.5%
US has roughly 20 times the volume the UK does in illegal immigration

US: Who Illegal Immigrants Are
UK: Illegal immigrant figure revealed

Channel helps immensely. You talk a good load of the ethnocentric hypocrisy, since you already have a geographical fence. No channel would mean you would be speaking Deutsche, so zeig heil on that one and the data supports my statements.

Now go open your jails and let the all the felons out and see what it's like.



[edit on 16-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

Regenmacher, roughly 40% of those immigrants do not come from Nation's bordering America, so the the wall won't help in the long term. It'll just mean fewer Mexican's in the short term.

And once the immigrants are in, they'll send the $100 it takes to get a bus to the U.S. legally and then they will never leave.

It is a short term solution, the real one is to force the companies to not pay them or employ them.

Originally posted by Odium
Regenmacher, roughly 40% of those immigrants do not come from Nation's bordering America, so the the wall won't help in the long term. It'll just mean fewer Mexican's in the short term.

And once the immigrants are in, they'll send the $100 it takes to get a bus to the U.S. legally and then they will never leave.

It is a short term solution, the real one is to force the companies to not pay them or employ them.

actually, the real answer is to get the lazy american workers to do the jobs the mexicans are doing. i've worked on a lot of construction sites in my time, and ive got to tell you, the mexicans work twice as hard as their american counterparts. and they do the jobs that americans dont want to do (but then turn around and complain about mexicans taking american jobs). youve first got to reinstill the american work ethic, which has gone straight down the crapper, and then you might get the contractors to quit using mexican labor. just MHO.

Originally posted by Odium
It is a short term solution, the real one is to force the companies to not pay them or employ them.

I agree with that idea, but since this is a captilistic society...I don't see them enforcing any measure in those regards. Reminds me of all the kickbacks and glad handing that arises in the EPA.

A wall is not prone to being corrupted, but people sure are.