Originally posted by RANT
So what's the dealio yo?

Do you support all the troops or just the one's that agree with you? I support them all, and can show you my tax records to prove it. But I oppose the War on Iraq, its shifting rationales and its failing strategies.

I support all the troops to have the equipment they need to do what they're doing. Even though I don't support the war or the soldiers' actions over there, I recognize that they're serving their country, my country, in a very difficult time in this world.

It's most difficult for me to support the soldiers who are involved in torture and humiliation of other people. However, they, along with the tortured, are casualties of a very sad, immoral and dreadful situation, so I can find compassion for them as victims of this war, even though I find their actions repugnant.

My heart hurts terribly for the soldiers who are over there trying to do their best to get through another day and get back home. Especially when others put them down. It's a sad situation, showing such lack of human compassion - to kick a man while he's down.

How about this one: I dont support the war or any of the troops.

I made the choice to go over there and do the things I did rather than stand up for what was right and take what I had coming to me for my stance. That is something I live with and regret every day, and I can not excuse the other soldiers who, just like me, had a choice.

If you don't support the war, how can you possibly support the troops who fight it?

Originally posted by cavscout
If you don't support the war, how can you possibly support the troops who fight it?

I thought I made that pretty clear, but let me try a hypothetical analogy, as it's one of my favorite ways of getting a point across:

Let's say my son wants to marry a woman of whom I strongly disapprove. I don't think she'll be a good mother, She's high-maintenance, she's selfish and a bit of a baby. She has cheated on him and I have caught her in a lie more than once.

My son is an adult and so I have seen fit to talk with him about my feelings toward his girlfriend. He lets me know that he already knows thiese things about her and he still wants to marry her. At that point, I have the choice of supporting him in his choices as an adult or not supporting him in my own selfishness (because of what I think or what I determine to be best for him).

So, even though I disagree with what he's doing and perhaps the reasoning behind it, I still support my son because I care about him and I respect him as an adult with the facilities to make choices for his life.

This analogy could also extend my best friend, or anybody, really.

So, even though I disagree with what the soldiers are doing and the reasoning behind it, I still support them because I care about my country and its military mechanism, and I respect and support them as adults.

Edit: I also fully understand and respect your choice not to support the troops. I've considered that option as well, believe me. Especially those who are joining today, KNOWING they'll be going over there.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

We all support the troops because they are in a situation that they have not control of it.

They do the job that they are trained to do and they follow the orders of their "Commander in Chief"

They are not at fault when it comes to the decisions or lack of it that comes from their superiors and the interpretations that they make from them.

So far the foot soldier that are in the field are the ones that have to pay for many mistakes by the higher ups and that brings to mind the scandals.

Yes is many soldiers that are feed up with the chain of command and the disastrous results of the "War on Terror"

Is many others that are doing what in their minds have been trained to do without any opinions about it.

We should never ever turn our backs to them not matter how bad the situation is in Iraq at their hands.

We should always blame the leaders that are sitting in air conditioned rooms giving the orders, their irresponsibility and lack of judgement is what is hurting our troops in the field and our American nation.

Originally posted by marg6043
We should always blame the leaders that are sitting in air conditioned rooms giving the orders, their irresponsibility and lack of judgement is what is hurting our troops in the field and our American nation.

WRONG. Soldiers fight wars. Without soldiers could you stage an invasion? No, not a chance. Can you imagine the result if every soldier said "no, I signed up to protect our nation from invasion and defend the constitution. I will not invade another country for developing weapons. I will not fight your war."

You say, marg, that we had no choice? That is an outright lie. I had a choice, a very clear one; go fight the war or give them the finger and go to jail. Guess what, I chose to fight their war. I chose not to go to jail. I chose to not face the ridicule of my peers. I chose, marg, to abandon my convictions.

For my crimes, I am in hell. I see little girls bringing me a diet coke and getting their limbs blown off from IEDs every night while I try to sleep. I break out in a sweat at the sight of a Christmas ornament (Christmas '03 I was ambushed in Iraq, shot in the back, severed tendons in my wrist, watched several innocent Iraqi men die and watched the bad guy's torso leak blood from my 240B) I see men laying dead at my feet, frothy pink fluid trickling from their ears, blood on my hands. I am in hell, marg, for my crimes. I suffer as I should, as God allows. Don’t patronize me by saying it wasnt my fault, damn you. I had choice. I went, I pulled the trigger, I kicked the head, I left the little girl to die, and damn you for saying it was some suite in washington what am i, a child? i cant make my own decisions? i hope you never see the hell I am in right now, the pain my soul must endure to be purified I hope you someday realize the damage you do to vets by making them feel good about what they have done, by giving them the strength to repress their guilt and there by turn them into zombies for the few years they are on earth, and helping satan slide them right on into hell. hope your do-gooder conscience feels great now.

Dont patronize us. If you want to feel good about self go feed the homeless on thanksgiving. Let us have our our guilt, our sorrow, and our repentance; these are the things that will save us in the end. GO to combat and find out or get the hell out of the kitchen.

Originally posted by cavscout
Can you imagine the result if every soldier said "no, I signed up to protect our nation from invasion and defend the constitution. I will not invade another country for developing weapons. I will not fight your war."

Except that you don't sign up just to protect the US from invasion and to defend the constitution.

You are right though, if you are not willing to follow orders, don't sign up. It's that simple.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Except that you don't sign up just to protect the US from invasion and to defend the constitution.

You know, I will admit to being naive and ignorant about the intentions of the federal government in respect to the usage of military. I grew up in a small logging town in the North West, a town brimming with constitutionalists and "patriot movement" types. I raised my right hand and swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States against anyone, American or otherwise. I did not foresee going to war with a nation without a clear a valid threat to the United States.

So yes, I was naive, a young kid with hopes of protecting my nation. I joined before 911, BTW, before we invaded Afghanistan or Iraq (the second time.)

So excuse me for thinking that there was a bit of decency left in Washington, for thinking that the constitution still meant something.

You want to know something? I am a completely different man now. The innocence is gone, the veil over my eyes lifted.

I still take my oath of enlistment seriously, though, and I will continue to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic just like I promised.

I am a patriot. You Sir would appear to be a nationalist. There is a difference.

Originally posted by cavscout
I am a patriot. You Sir would appear to be a nationalist. There is a difference.

You are correct on both accounts.

I am a patriot for sure, and a nationalist in the sense that I believe in being proactive when it comes to our national intrests.

However, I would not support military action with out what I believed to be just cause. That is the difference I guess, between our outlooks.

You being more reactionary, my self being more proactive. That, and I believe that we were justified in the Iraq war.