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Originally posted by Full Metal
Again, won't it still pass if it goes back to congress and they get 2/3 or 3/4 vote on it even if the president says "No, torture is fun! Where's my broomstick and a arab I can torture?"
[edit on 8-10-2005 by Full Metal]
Originally posted by Amethyst
So much for having the moral high ground.
I wonder how the Bushbots can continue to support this guy. They must be a pretty die-hard group.
Originally posted by Seekerof
Originally posted by Luxifero
Regarding of Seekerofs comments which always seem to be beclouded in a heavy patriotic inneundo; maybe he can't discern between torture for relevent information, and the torture prisoners recieved at Abu Graihb?
I served this country in both Kosovo and the 1st Gulf War, so its blatantly obvious that I am "beclouded in a heavy patriotic inneundo", Luxifero.
As to your insinuation of torture and my abilities of discernment between the use of torture for obtaining "relevant information" and the use of torture at Abu Ghraib is "maybe" ludicrous?!
What happened at Abu Ghraib has been repeatedly shown to be caused by the lack of proper training and officer mismanagement and lack of operational awareness. Contrary to your mis-guided conceptions, torture or the use of torture within the military is not a fundemental doctrine or code that is habitually taught or practiced. Abu Ghraib was an unfortunate isolated occurance. What happened there does not, in no way, shape, or form, represent the military or how they are trained, as a whole.
seekerof
[edit on 7-10-2005 by Seekerof]
I served this country in both Kosovo and the 1st Gulf War, so its blatantly obvious that I am "beclouded in a heavy patriotic inneundo", Luxifero.
As to your insinuation of torture and my abilities of discernment between the use of torture for obtaining "relevant information" and the use of torture at Abu Ghraib is "maybe" ludicrous?!
What happened at Abu Ghraib has been repeatedly shown to be caused by the lack of proper training and officer mismanagement and lack of operational awareness. Contrary to your mis-guided conceptions, torture or the use of torture within the military is not a fundemental doctrine or code that is habitually taught or practiced. Abu Ghraib was an unfortunate isolated occurance. What happened there does not, in no way, shape, or form, represent the military or how they are trained, as a whole.
quote by: lilblam it is simply the nature of those in power to only act in their own interests, and it still continues to be their nature, and will forevermore be their nature. Yet there continues to be a huge number of ignorant/naive people who trust the government anyway, for no reason whatsoever other than because they say so. They say they want peace, yet they wage war. They say they want to protect our freedoms, yet they remove them in order to "fight the enemy". They say they want to protect us, yet they piss off the entire world off by illegally invadind and killing tens of thousands of innocents, with no evidence of any threat to begin with. Well if there was no threat, there is one now because of our actions
Personally, I hope Bush vetoes it, as well.
Lets worry about our enemies more than about our troops.
Makes sense, huh?
Think the enemy will pass such legislation? Riiight.
Bush vetoing this would be like making a breakthrough in genetic engineering: the regeneration of spines of many in Congress and the Senate....
I wonder how the Bushbots can continue to support this guy. They must be a pretty die-hard group.
My point is simply this - let us not blindly defend a politician because of our attachment or love for him or his party, be it republican or democrat, liberal or conservative. Let us not be divided by such silly and very superficial divisions. Those in power, regardless of what superficial political side they say they represent, are always the same in their nature, and THAT is what we as the people of this country need to learn to SEE and understand. This is something that keeps escaping the people of this world and they repeat the same mistakes over and over because of this.
Being "against" Bush or any other politician has nothing to do with being against America as a nation and against the American people. Politicians will glaldy remove the constitution and create a totalitarian rule if the people allowed them.
If you love America as it was designed, then please maintain this design and critically question and carefully WATCH anyone that dares veer away from it and provides a flimsy excuse. This initial design can be easily slipped away from underneath us when the citizenry becomes apathetic, as it is now, and is more concerned with superficial party monickers and as thus are DIVIDED by the very politicians that created this game to begin with.
We have a political system that awards office to the most ruthless, cunning, and selfish of mortals, then act surprised when those those willing to do anything to win power are equally willing to do anything with it. "
-- Michael Rivero
Congressman Ron Paul has accused the Bush administration of attempting to set in motion a militarized police state in America by enacting gun confiscation martial law provisions in the event of an avian flu pandemic. Paul also slammed as delusional and dangerous plans to invade Iran, Syria, North Korea and China.
"It's really hard to believe it's happening right in front of us. Whether it's the torture or the process of denying habeas corpus to an American citizen."
Originally posted by RANT
The really crazy thing is he's up against his own party. The banning of torture has wiiiiide bi-partisan support.
Bush is practically all alone here in his pro-torture promise to veto his own party.
Pffft. Quack, quack.