Has Terror Won??????

Has Terror Won?????

when we see the measures that are being taken and the fear that is generated by a "credible threat" one needs to wonder if Terror has won.

After all the the main goal of terrorism is to create fear and make us change our ways of going about daily life .... right?

Originally posted by Perfect stranger
Has Terror Won?????

when we see the measures that are being taken and the fear that is generated by a "credible threat" one needs to wonder if Terror has won.

After all the the main goal of terrorism is to create fear and make us change our ways of going about daily life .... right?

Where is the fear? I don't really see any. Just people are a bit more watchful.

Are people locked in their houses? Has New York come to a complete stop over this? Are people screaming "someone save the children"? How many businesses, schools, etc. closed because of fear?

what is happening now is an example of how the "war on terror has changed our habits..

NYPD deploying heavily armed Hercules teams ( where we did not have before)

People being subject to searches before getting on the subway ( where we did not have before)

HAZMAT teams being called in to handle a pop can full of draino

the definition of terrorism

ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

You may not be seeing people locked in their homes hiding under the bed. but there HAS been changes in the way we go about daily life.... hence the question has the goal of terrorism succeded???


[edit on 7-10-2005 by Perfect stranger]

Not even close.

In fact, they are LOSING the war.

The terrorists will let us know when they've won, they'll stop bombing us. Since they continue to fight, I posit, no, they haven't won. They'll probably have won if/when the US and west pulls out of the middle east completely and doesn't support any regimes, democratic or tyrannic, over there. After which point they'll overthrow the local regimes, and try to set up islamic caliphates.

How can you say that?

Just look at the threads under this one and see the fear mongering that's going on right here

The Goal of terrorism is to instill fear and force us to change the way we live our lives....and today's events in NYC have done just that

unfortunate but true

Originally posted by Perfect stranger
After all the the main goal of terrorism is to create fear and make us change our ways of going about daily life .... right?

Not really, ‘creating fear’ to ‘create fear’ is an element to a terroristic strategy which are culminative 'acts' that lead to an ‘ends’…..rather, to attain a political objective through coercion and intimidation.

"..the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85)
Refernce to 28 CFR Section 0.85 in use

Changing the way one 'lives' is not the same as changing one's ideology or affiliation.

As far as currently 'winning' is concernined...no side can claim a win thus far.


.

Originally posted by cjf

Originally posted by Perfect stranger
After all the the main goal of terrorism is to create fear and make us change our ways of going about daily life .... right?

Not really, ‘creating fear’ to ‘create fear’ is an element to a terroristic strategy which are culminative 'acts' that lead to an ‘ends’…..rather, to attain a political objective through coercion and intimidation.

"..the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85)
Refernce to 28 CFR Section 0.85 in use

Changing the way one 'lives' is not the same as changing one's ideology or affiliation.

As far as currently 'winning' is concernined...no side can claim a win thus far.


.

But who r the real terrorists that gain the most, that is the dogma named terrorist?

[edit on 7-10-2005 by Senser]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Not even close.

In fact, they are LOSING the war.

How Mad Man? How are they losing?

They have us doing their job FOR THEM blowing up Iraq's infrastructure because "freedom of movement" is a threat to a free Iraq.

US forces bomb Iraq's Euphrates bridges
October 06 2005 at 09:58AM

Baghdad - US-led forces have bombed eight bridges on the Euphrates River in western Iraq to stop insurgents using them, US military spokesperson Major General Rick Lynch said Thursday.

"We have been taking out portions of bridges with precision strikes," he told a news conference.

Of 12 bridges between the Syrian border and Ramadi, 110km west Baghdad, "four remain under control of the coalition forces and Iraqi forces after precision strikes on the others," he said.

"One of the vulnerabilities of this insurgency is freedom of movement," he added.

"We took out portions of these bridges to deny terrorists, foreign fighters and insurgents the capability to cross north to south or south to north across the Euphrates River."

You picked a bad week to look for progress. Our Level 1 Iraqi Battalions are DOWN from 3 to 1. We're blowing up friendly bridges ON PURPOSE.

And you think we're winning. :shk:

Has Terror Won??????
Nahhh, not yet.

I admit that they, the terrorists have become a force to be reckoned with, yet they have a long way to go before they beat us.

The very fact they can cause unrest among us in the Western World is going the way they want things, but we, in the Western World can rise above these mindless, cowardly suicide bombings of the innocents.

Lets not forget that we are far better people than these mindless idiots who seem intent on killing innocent people in the name of martyrdom, which by chance will never happen, because they are not supposed to kill to gain martyrdom.

Has terror won? I should say so.

Its plainly clear that Iraq is not going to settle down to be a peaceful west friendly democracy. The rebellion and the portions of it that use terror tactics appear to only be growing stronger as the body count continues to rise greater every year the War on Terror goes on. The USA and its coalition in essence have turned both Afghanistan and Iraq into terrorist recruitment zones and even the biggest of politicians continue to make the claim that these areas are supposed to be terror hotbeds in some type of insane attempt to keep terror events from happening in coalition homelands.

The only logical conclusion one can draw from the War on Terror is that the fight as it currently is, is merely exasperating the problem and will eventually lead to a western military pullout of the violence afflicted areas. Turning them into Islamic militant controlled areas. The western public has no stomach for decades of war with extremely visible negative results and no clear goals or wins being made other than in highly defended military controlled areas.

Unless Iraq settles down before the USA elections in 2006, all public support will completely end and the western nations will have no other option than to either pull out and admit defeat or turn their own nations into martial law controlled zones and quell any dissent with mass arrests and continue the wars until the entire Middle East erupts into violence.

And after all this time, Osama Bin Laden, whether he exists or is a fantasy, is still on the loose. There has never been a more miserably failed manhunt than for this man.

[edit on 7-10-2005 by Frith]

Terrorism cannot have won. Its the Iranians and the Syrians who are seen to be reported as causing most of the attacks.

Stopping this influx of attacks would decimate the stronghold they appear to have over Iraq.

While ever they continue to attack innocent people, they will win no hearts of valour with any country or religion.



[edit on 7-10-2005 by Bikereddie]

Originally posted by Bikereddie
Terrorism cannot have won. Its the Iranians and the Syrians who are seen to be reported as causing most of the attacks.

Mate, we can point fingers back and forth about and get more and more paraniod and more racist but frankly mate....whast it going to acomplish? Give us another enemy to hit? Something else to vent out anger at or mabye give us something to....hit or see instead of the thing man most fears and that is the unknown. I mean look at terrorism, its unkown to most of the world for its reasons and motives, yet its feared by most of the world as being some long range and hard hitting threat that comes from countries like iran or iraq or from our own backgardens (back yards for all you yanks).

Stopping this influx of attacks would decimate the stronghold they appear to have over Iraq.

Will it mate?
I mean you remember the IRA and the NI mess , we made literally a wall of cameras at the border but that didnt stop them and they are still there today. FIghting a war against a force like the IRA or the UVF or there splinter cells or similar groups or like the insurgents in iraq is difficult and conventional warfare just doesnt cut it. We learned that the hard way and the only way the war stops is if the people there not us stop the terrorist attacks, if we act its simply another oppresion move, but if its by the iraqi people its a move made by the people for the people.

While ever they continue to attack innocent people, they will win no hearts of valour with any country or religion
[edit on 7-10-2005 by Bikereddie]

Is that really so mate?
Surely You remember how the IRA and the UVF got support by both religion and politcs, I mean how easy is it to abuse and use scripture or play with a persons politcal views or even normal views without him knowing?
Propaganda is a big tool , the use it, why dont we?

Originally posted by Senser
But who r the real terrorists that gain the most, that is the dogma named terrorist?

Dogma….

The doctrine of history is more applicable to the topic question….

The ‘winner’ in the end will not be considered ‘terrorists’; contrary to the attempt of ‘reversed’ implication.



.

here's the problem as i see it (and you can call me ignorant if you want, because this is just my opinion):

let me start by saying that i dont agree with the reasons we went into iraq to begin with. the time and resources could have been much better spent persuing OBL in afganistan (or pakistan, or wherever the heck is his now). but neither do i think bush is an outright liar. heck, EVERYBODY in the US government was hoodwinked on this one...even the major democratic players believed the intel (until, of course, they were up for election).

but now that we are there in full force, i think that it would be a major mistake to leave, and here are a few reasons why:

first of all, it would be just like beirut in 83, or somalia in 93...."the americans got there noses bloodied and ran". you think maybe that has something to do with where we are today? i do.

second, if we left right now, the entire country of iraq would slide into uncontrollable civil war. as it is, shia and sunni gangs are attacking each other every day and committing horrible atrocities against not only each other, but innocent women and children. without us there to at least try and stop the carnage, it would get ten times worse. kind of reminds me of northern ireland....brits try to step in and stop the mess, and they get the overall blame from both sides (and i know im gonna take hits on that comment, because im just a dumb yank that doesnt know anything about the conflict except what i read in the western press...forget the fact that im third generation irish).

third, anyone who has kept up on the middle east over the last twenty years and has any knowledge of the situation knows that saddam definitely had WMD...because WE SOLD IT TO HIM!!!!! (enough said on that).

what does any of this have to do with the subject of this thread? well, if we leave now, then terrorism HAS won. if we leave now, then they would be proven right about beirut and somalia.

as far as the changes in the US, i dont think terrorism has won at all....i think that all the attacks have done is bring us up to date with the rest of the world as far as security standards are concerned...its just a shame that it took 9-11 to do it.

It all depends how you look at it...i laughed all day long watching the "breaking news" on tv because the terror alerts on the subways.

Can anyone out there see this is all to cover up the previous days problems???????
I hope there's at least one of you out there...

yeah, but have you thought about it the other way?

maybe since the bush administration already knew about the threats against NY, and the outcome of the raid in iraq, they thought that it would be the perfect opportunity to lay out a few "wins" in the war on terror (and, he could say at the end of the weekend "hey, we got the intel and by spreading it across the country in the mainstream media, and bolstering our security in the subways, scared the terrorists into rethinking the attacks they had planned in NY....its a win"). im not saying that this is the case, just a possibility

Bah! Thats not the modus operendai...yes, one could see it that way, but judging the last few years, i'd say my way makes more sense.
Something goes wrong= terror alerts, packages, the boogie man is wondering the streets, etc....

I will tell you that i do beleive we WILL be attacked sooner or later...You dont invade countries without suffering consequences...It will happen. BUT WE WILL NOT KNOW AHEAD OF TIME.
On the other hand, this government might just get desperate enough and you know the rest of the story......

*shivers*

yeah, but im sorry, i just dont buy into the whole "911 perpetrated by our own government" crap. there is no way they could keep an operation of that magnitude a secret for this long. the almighty dollar is too strong a motivator....somebody would have talked by now.

Whether it was government sponsored terroism or foreign I think they have won in ruining our constitution, welcoming the police state and putting fear into a lot of people.