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US Army Moves to Recruit More High School Dropouts

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posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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WASHINGTON - Army Secretary Noel Harvey and vice chief of staff Gen. Richard Cody said Monday that the Army was using looser Defense Department rules that permitted it to sign up more high school dropouts and people who score lower on mental-qualification tests, but they denied that this meant it was lowering standards.



Until Army recruiters began having trouble signing up enough recruits earlier this year, the Army had set minimum standards that were higher than those of the Defense Department.

The Army has a recruiting shortfall of 6,000 to 8,000 soldiers over the past 12 months. It hasn't fallen so short of its annual goal since 1979, several years after the Vietnam war.


The Department of Defense "standards on qualification tests call for at least 60 percent Category 1 to 3 (the higher end of testing) and 4 percent Category 4," the lowest end, Harvey said. "The other services follow that standard and the Army National Guard always followed it as well. But the active Army chose a standard of 67 percent in Categories 1-3, and 2 percent Category 4." It now would use the Defense Department guidelines, he said.

Cody said that increasing the number of people with General Education Diplomas allowed to enlist in the Army wasn't really a lowering of standards. GEDs are certificates granted in lieu of high school diplomas to dropouts who can pass an examination.

Source:
Common Dreams News Center

Could it be that the US Army is in Trouble and does not get the needed number of Recruits, so it has to Lower the standards for enlistment?

I remember the Documentary Fahrenheit 9-11, where Micheal Moore showed, how the majority of Soldiers in the Army are from the Poor background, that did not have any Future. They are not Daughters and Sons of some Rich Senator.




posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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I remember the Documentary Fahrenheit 9-11, where Micheal Moore showed, how the majority of Soldiers in the Army are from the Poor background, that did not have any Future. They are not Daughters and Sons of some Rich Senator.

Every time I hear this inane argument I think of all of the men and women that serve our country in politics, civil service, and many other fields, that have been in the military. And I wonder which branch Michael Moore served in.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:29 AM
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We used to do this all the time. Truants were practically SENTENCED to the military.

Judges also used to have the option to offer military enlistment to youthful offenders instead of jail as a rehabilitation measure productive for society.

Now they can't. That would be liberal activism.


Got to love mandatory sentencing.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Every time I hear this inane argument I think of all of the men and women that serve our country in politics, civil service, and many other fields, that have been in the military. And I wonder which branch Michael Moore served in.


True. Leaving Mickey Moore out of it though, the argument itself has both merit and problems.

While it is a bit hypocritical to support a war you're not willing to support, it's also a bit hypocritical to expect ditch diggers to want their kids to be ditch diggers.

That's not to discount the significant contributions or legacy of pride in multigenerational ditch digging either. But most people fight wars so their children and grandchildren don't have to.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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Still - that does not make the Army a "Volunteery Choice" of the Young Men and Women, but basicly a Desperate Choice, since they have nowhere else to go! They don't have any Money that their Daddy gave them, they don't have any Future in Academics to go to College to start Making their Money and they are really a Lost Generation. Now the Army comes in and plays on that "Desperate Note" and gives the Money and Security and an Apartement.

The points was that the Army is Lowering their Standards due to the Low Recruitment Rate and they NEED more Soldiers, and basicly they are also Getting pretty much Desperate and will take anything you give them.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:58 AM
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Not exactly true, those people still need to pass a back ground check and the ASVAB pre-entry test. For the record by the way, anyone with out a diploma which included people with GEDs, need to score higher on the test than those with a diploma. There have been limited slots available for non diploma individuals looking to enter service, the number per year has been raised is all.

The Armed Forces only accepts so many GEDs as it was, it is by no means lowering the standards.

If they were to lower the standards, felony convictions would not have to be waivered. Say the Army can only waiver one felony, and the Marines 2, now to lower the standards they would double it. That would be lowering, but allowing people in who had no chance before is far from a bad choice.
Many of the new recrutes may not be so book smart, but they are more than likely more street smart. Which by the way is what sort of war is being fought, in the streets where books and IQ dont mean squat.

Only one way to know for sure though, and that is to wait and see. If this is really a lower standard, it will prove it's self soon enough.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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ADVISOR

Well there IS a Recruiting Downfall and the Army is trying real hard to keep up with the Pentagon Demands:

From the Article:



He confirmed that the recruiting shortfall was affecting the Army's plans to temporarily increase troop strength of the active force by 30,000.

The Army secretary said the long-term Army plan was to increase the operational Army, the soldiers who fight, from the current 315,000 to 350,000, while maintaining today's total strength of 482,000.

Cody said there was bad news and good news on manpower. "We didn't make our goal in recruiting," Cody said. "But we reached 108 percent of our goal in retaining those soldiers already in the Army."



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Could it be that the US Army is in Trouble and does not get the needed number of Recruits, so it has to Lower the standards for enlistment?


excellent topic souljah, I too have wondered about this. If you haven't seen this thread it may help answer your questions or shed a lil light on this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I honestly don't know exactly how I feel on this yet though, I admit I do not know much about the US military but am taking the time to now (maybe recently becoming involved with a sailor has alot to do with that lol) but seriously, it's quite fascinating. Makes me sad sometimes, very proud at others, even if not for my own country.

Can't have the good without the bad though right ?
I just wonder what's in store for the future of it if recruiting today's youth, with their standard of morals, principles, priorities etc ... today. And I do mean ALL military forces, not just US. I don't know about anyone else but the idea doesn't really inspire any hope over here.



[edit on 6-10-2005 by ImJaded]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
Many of the new recrutes may not be so book smart, but they are more than likely more street smart. Which by the way is what sort of war is being fought, in the streets where books and IQ dont mean squat.


Makes total sense.


I don't know that "standards" is even the right way to talk about it frankly. In times of peace, they make rules to accept less purely for economic reasons. At war, they simply loosen restrictions to accept more.

They change "retirement" rules on whims too. That has nothing to do with "standards."

I know the Marines for example have very aggressive modeling they use to target certain groups as well having worked on their marketing. They realize they're literally competing for your attention as not only an employer, but as an alternative to a number of life choices.

Polling various segments is important too. If a group really, really wants to join but can't, it merits looking at ways to incorporate that group (see gays/women). There's simply an inherent value in people that want to be there, as opposed to recruiting people that don't.

Certainly the recruiting downfall plays into it as does the war, or public opinion of same. But political commentary on the war can't be extrapolated from normal military recruiting procedure. Now, when they get shady and go into poor neighborhoods specifically to lie or grade schools specifically to brainwash, that's bad. And I'm agin'it. But let's not pick on every burp and fart.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by RANT]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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When faced with a choice of minimum wage or recruitment many will feel that they don't have much of a choice, but of course the recruiters emphasize the positive aspects and don't even bring up the possiblity of being killed. Go to Wal-Mart and browse through the toy aisles. The toys for boys are almost all military oriented and emphasize the supposed "hero" aspect of joining the armed forces. It is the same with video games. Our children are being brainwashed, and the less educated are far more vulnerable. Bottom line= Bush needs more troops on the ground and it doesn't take much intelligence to stop a bullet



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
Go to Wal-Mart and browse through the toy aisles. The toys for boys are almost all military oriented and emphasize the supposed "hero" aspect of joining the armed forces. It is the same with video games. Our children are being brainwashed, and the less educated are far more vulnerable. Bottom line= Bush needs more troops on the ground and it doesn't take much intelligence to stop a bullet.

Agreed.

I remember the US Army launching the official Video Game, and according to the stats you received while playing it, you could receive a letter from them in the future, saying they want your services. The Military is doing basicly everything they can in order to attact more people to this Job. They are using every possible weapon in their Arsenal to "Brainwash" the Children and promote the Armed service already in their young age: video games, hollywood movies, toys.

So who is Teaching them all the Dark sides of the Army? That they don't get another "spawn" when they die and that they won't just be deducted with 100 points from their score when they kill their buddy in a "friendly fire". That War is NOT a Game.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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in just about every culture on earth, boys learn about the military from there elders, and grow up idolizing those who came before. it has always been that way. nobody is getting "brainwashed", its part of the male psyche to want to be somebody's hero. i have as of yet to ever meet a little boy who didnt love playing with cap guns or toy soldiers...or playing war with his friends. toy manufacturers have done thousands of studies and are making billions of dollars on their toys because they know this.

now, as for the military: as a veteran, i can tell you that people join for many different reasons. some like the glamour of the uniform (women love uniforms....proven fact
). some like the honor. some are just real patriotic. some are in it for the education and benefits. some do it for the guarantee of US citizenship. EVERYONE recognizes that you might end up in a dangerous situation where your life is on the line....its just part of the package. you sign your name on the dotted line, and your butt belongs to uncle sam for 4 or 5 years. during my five years in, i only met one or two people who were there because they had no where else to go. you always have a choice....until you sign that contract. then there's three ways out...arlington, leavenworth, or completion of the contract.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Enlisting highschool drop-outs; giving them wepons and high tech equipment. Whats wrong with this picture?


Shouldn't incentives be given to the best and brightest to enlist? Wouldn't this create a more effective military than drop-outs. Oh yeah, I forgot the best and brightest had rather go to college and party. War is inconvenient for those that can afford other choices.

Come on... if you can't make it thru high school you're not going to be a very good soldier. Canon fodder maybe....

Aren't most of the officers grads of military acadamies or college Rotc or OCS? Certainly not high school drop-outs.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Enlisting highschool drop-outs; giving them wepons and high tech equipment. Whats wrong with this picture?


Shouldn't incentives be given to the best and brightest to enlist? Wouldn't this create a more effective military than drop-outs. Oh yeah, I forgot the best and brightest had rather go to college and party. War is inconvenient for those that can afford other choices.

Come on... if you can't make it thru high school you're not going to be a very good soldier. Canon fodder maybe....

Aren't most of the officers grads of military acadamies or college Rotc or OCS? Certainly not high school drop-outs.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by whaaa]


umm...einstein was a high school drop out....as was this nations most decorated soldier ever, audie murphy

en.wikipedia.org...

hey moderator.....shouldnt there be a requirement to think before you open your mouth here? just wondering.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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I have an idea: get rid of most of the military and do what Japan does with a tiny army.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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I remember the Documentary Fahrenheit 9-11, where Micheal Moore showed, how the majority of Soldiers in the Army are from the Poor background, that did not have any Future. They are not Daughters and Sons of some Rich Senator.

What's your definition of poor? I think the majority of them come from a slighty under Middle-class family...but definately not from the wealthiest of America. I don't think poor is the word, but I know what you mean.

I think it's great. The military offers many people a chance to make something of themsleves. Some of these people have no chance of making it in the civilian world. Yeah the Army is probably desperate for people so they lowered the standards, but overall it can do more better than harm, especially for all the slackers out there who don't have any other choice, either the streets or the military.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
hey moderator.....shouldnt there be a requirement to think before you open your mouth here? just wondering.


My very thought, perhaps sticking to the topic at hand: War On Terrorism » US Army Moves to Recruit More High School Dropouts would best emulate this concept?

Thanks.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Enlisting highschool drop-outs; giving them wepons and high tech equipment. Whats wrong with this picture?
********
Come on... if you can't make it thru high school you're not going to be a very good soldier. Canon fodder maybe....

whaaa, It's called training. ever heard of it? Probably not. Hmm, and you don't see a problem with some pimple faced pot smoker preparing your food at [insert restaurant here]???

[edit on 6/10/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB

Originally posted by whaaa
Enlisting highschool drop-outs; giving them wepons and high tech equipment. Whats wrong with this picture?
********
Come on... if you can't make it thru high school you're not going to be a very good soldier. Canon fodder maybe....

whaaa, It's called training. ever heard of it? Probably not. Hmm, and you don't see a problem with some pimple faced pot smoker preparing your food at [insert restaurant here]???

[edit on 6/10/2005 by SportyMB]



Sporty, I thought high school was training. If you can't make it thru high school, that now is so easy it's laughable. How can you be an effective 21 century high tech soldier that the Army TV ads portray.

The comparison between a cook in a resturant and a soldier, is ludicrous.

I taught high school and junior college. The kids that dropped out do need some alternative; I'm just not sure the military is a viable option until they at least get some remedial training.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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I taught high school and junior college. The kids that dropped out do need some alternative; I'm just not sure the military is a viable option until they at least get some remedial training.

This is NOT directed at you, but teachers these days give up on the students without even attempting to MOTIVATE them. It's pathetic, really it is.

The military on the other hand does not give up that easy on people, they stay with them until they realize that a person is a complete idiot, then they give up, unlike the majority of todays teachers who call it a day as soon as a child raises their voice. Many of them are what we call "grad-waivers" and they still take the ASVAB exam....which pretty much determines what area you will do best in. Ofcourse they're not gonna make a Comm-tech out of some dumb-arse or put him in the intel filed.

And the training in the military is some of the best in the world....

[edit on 6/10/2005 by SportyMB]



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