2 cups? May I ask where you got that information? I can't find that in your links. I honestly think that would kill someone. Even a few droppers full will make a person vomit.

No it won't kill anyone. That is what I have known since I first started in herbal medicine over 15 years ago. The two cups is two cups of infused tea. The problem lies in the statement poison versus non poison and the herbs use as an emetic.

The information comes from a book called Back To Eden a herbal medicine paperback encyclopedia that I own but for the life of me I cannot find it today. As soon as I do I will quote from the book. I was reading over it three days ago and found many great recipes in there including the one I stated above. My mother has been visiting and is a clean freak so it has disppeared along with much of my other organised chaos.

The one thing I havent actually added is the exact ratios of herbs, the original recipe of the infusion is for a catnip/lobelia mix but the book does answer your fears of the doses quite rationally. I have given the above links for people to research the berb/doses/usage for themselves and offered information and knowledge from my own database here.



[edit on 5-10-2005 by Mayet]

Thank you for answering that, I used lobelia tincture when I quit smoking and was warned by our herbalist.

You raised another point I had not covered in my first post.

Lobelia is known as Indian Tobacco and Wild Tobacco so it is smokable. great for lung cures as it goes straight to the area of need.

I wonder where I could get some seeds. I had lobelia planted this summer outdoors but the plants are all shriveled up now.

They should shoot again come spring but that may be too late for the Bird Flu usage.

Most seed suppliers and even larger supermarkets with garden sections should sell the seeds as they are readily available and a popular low maintainence garden plant as a ground cover. If buying seedlings separate them into more plants.



[edit on 6-10-2005 by Mayet]

One word of caution.

I've bought lobelia seeds that are in pellet form. The have a coating (usually white) that make them easier to germinate.
If you are using the seeds for a tincture, I would advise not using this type of seed.

Good post, Mayet. Too bad I put most of my old plants in the recycling a couple of weeks ago

Can you tell me how to make an infusion out of a tincture? Is that possible? Would it still be as effective as an infusion made from my own plants?

Thanks.

The two are different. An Infusion is usually a "tea" with the plant stock being steeped in hot or boiling water.

A tincture is much more concentrated and usually made on a pure alcohol base.

A little as one drop of tincture is used either on a spoon orally or mixed in a glass of liquid ie:juice or water.

I finally found that book I was looking for. It was sitting on the floor next to my bed...hmm and I searched there how many times?

I am compiling a post on exactly how to use lobelia for treatment of bird flu. When I am finished i will further hunt out more herbs of use to use in conjunction with the lobelia.

Inicidently Lobelia can be planted all year around. Plant in a sunny (full sun) frost free position. The plant will flower in six weeks. Keep moist during hot dry weather.

And yes never use seeds that you have bought from a shop for herbal medicine use. Many other Herbalists I know will not even use shop bought stock of seeds for herbal plants owing to the stuff the seeds are coated with,



[edit on 9-10-2005 by Mayet]

Good info mayet

Speaking of tinctures: I have a few flu tictures that I made but I want to make another one that includes garlic and onion. Now ya get onions in many varieties. Does anyone know what amount I can use( I usually add an ounce of each herb)?
Oh, and the onion cant really be raw can it with other dried herbs?

When the Englishmen landed in the New World they traded Tobacco with the Indians and the Indians traded back with their Indian tobacco, ie - Lobelia. Years later it was discovered that one was an antidote to the other - isn't history ironically curious. Remember all the smoke freaks trying to quit were buying Nikoban - or the synthesized form of Lobelein Sulfphate. Been an herbalist for years and that was one interesting anecdote I picked up in my research.

When it comes to treating bird flu the front line things you can do is assist the body to rehydrate itself thus keeping it able to resist further organ degeneration and failure. Congestion will be a problem and fever will cause a tremendous loss of body fluids. Trying to drink fluids may not be very practical if you can't even make it to the water tap. Plus your body might not keep the fluids down.

I am not a doctor and am not prescribing but I plan to go to the medical supply house - vetenarian if necessary and get some bags of electrolytes and the needle rigs to accomplish an IV. I have had a great deal of personal experience with dehydratiion and have gone into shock a bunch of times (13 times in 25 years) and the traditional treatment is 2 or 3 IVs and some Fenagen for nausea.

That is a prescription item and of course this was administered in a hospital emergency room - usually released the next day. It may also be useful to treat any periperal infections your particular system might be prone to as your immune system will crash to its lowest point to fight of something of that scale. Women often get dehydrated like this from a Intrauterin Infection that gets out of hand and or persons that suffer from reflux to the kidneys. As far as my experience has proved, which is sorrowfully limited compared to bonafide medical personnel, avoiding dairy products can do the most to help guard against pulmonary infection of a secondary nature and or congestion during such a flu.

Getting as much fluids into your body as possible is critical because that is how your body flushes out waste products produced by the viral attack or bacteriological onslaught. Remember - don't be a good host for the flu - that is the best proactive thing you can do. Washing your hands, insisting the boss doesn't force sick people to come to work and that sick people stay home until after the contagion period is over are the best front line protections. Make sure your local supermarket and Walmart enforces these procedures before any employee so much as goes into the store.

They should enforce the cleaning of all topical surfaces their customers and employees encounter in common and curtail the use of drinking fountains - make them hand out bottled water if people need it For Free. The wearing of surgical masks in public transport should be universal and persons with impaired breathing or oxygen tank support should be transported separately.

Food and medical support systems should be put in place for persons who are sick and they should stay home and be given cell phone access for their needs. Don't look to your government or Fema or OHS for help - you can do a better job of it if you act now locally. Use common sense - disease needs people to transfer itself, but we cannot allow them to shut everything down. Outbreak Laws are already on the books in New Mexico in the event of bio-terrorism or plague that lay down an iron glove on any animal, person, community, region or state that may be effected. These last for 30 days here and can be extended indefinetely.

They plan to contact you by phone banks run by private companies like Qwest or other capables that can be conscripted to check your progress, food and medical needs etc and they can use the police and the military to enforce quarantines and isolations. They can also vaccinate you and if you refuse limit your ability to go anywhere at anytime, quarantine or isolate you as the case requires.

They can confiscate your medical supplies and give them to whoever they want wether you are a pharmacy, hospital or private individual and they can take over a property to make it a medical facility. They don't have to tell you what is in the medication and they can vaccinate any minor without the authorization of his parents if they are not present, barring a doctor intervening to say it is contraindicated by an existing medical condition, which in itself in the heat of the moment be imposible to verify if medical records are not accessible, Children who may have been contained away from their parents and are innoculated will not be reunited with their parents unless they agree to be innoculated as well, then they will be quarantined or isolated together.

Consider this - your kids at school, the school is contained with a super bug "presence" - this does not have to be verified it can merely be suspected. You want to see your kid, but cannot be reunited with him because you either refuse the medication or just can't take it ( such as a egg-based serum and you just happen to be allergic to eggs, ergo you can't get the innoculation). Then you, because of your special case, are issued a travel restriction that doesn't allow you to go to unapproved areas for your disease category of exposure - maybe indefinitely, because golly gee this stuff might just come roaring back. Frankly I think the laws in effect are more Draconian than the disease and they are a patent violation of all of your Civil Rights.

It's not fiction - it's on the books in New Mexico under Outbreak Law. So beef up your medical supplies if you require them and hide a good bit of them where they cannot be found if the guys in lab coats come smashing through your home looking for terrorist bugs under your matress. If you ask me I really believe that none of this is about a superbug at all - its about shutting down the entire nation for a period of weeks to give the goon squad in Washington and their CIA spooks time and opportunity to go and police up every "dissident" on their lists since Cointelpro in the 60's - its called Operation Clean Sweep. None of the other sheeple will complain when they say "you resisted" and they had to snuff you. The majority of our lame fellow citizens will just bow their heads and slink on home back to their personal entertainment center and turn on the TV.

I do not think this is about a flu bug at all - that's not to say they might not use one they cooked up in their bio-weapons lab that will run its course and give them the backdrop opportunity. Just because it starts in China doesn't mean that they are not using a calculated life span of the viral and the existing migratory paths of birds to import it right into your backyard. Don't for a minute think that these people are stupid - I guarantee you they are not. That doesn't say anything about the quality of their soul.


[edit on 15-10-2005 by kinglizard]