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have we hit a dead end with UFO-ET research?

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posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by nightwing

If you hold your interest and really look at his stuff, I think you will stumble upon a real curio to cast a shadow upon your opinion of
the USAF policy. When Hynek re-examined the Blue Book stuff, I recall that he comes up with LESS unknowns than the USAF
did.


Then I have to respect the man even more because he let the evidence speak for itself and formed his opinion based on that evidence , something that Edward Condon and the USAF did not to our knowledge.

Hynek was a man of Science and he has been right all these years, the Scientific Community needs to officially study UFOs. Hynek argued for that. And scolded the Scientific Community for allowing the Condon Report to go unchallenged.

My question has always been why are we even asking the Air Force to tell us about something that we should be studying Scientifically?

We don't turn to the Air Force to learn about " Quasars" ? So why would we want to let the Air Force dictate what is or isn't worthy of Scientific investigation?

This is the only question in the History of Man that Science turns to the Armed Forces for answers. Why is that?




posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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You left out the ONE thing that WAS scientific. 1961, Frank Drake was playing around with the earliest scientific look at how to proactively search for intelligent radio signals. Technically, the birth of SETI. And the Drake Equation and etc.


While I respect the efforts of SETI immensely, now we're really talking about heresay. Every single variable of the Drake equation is a guesstimate. In addition, he's missing a key variable (in my opinion) in that equation (quite simply, the number of civilizations using a form of communication that we can receive and interpret).

One of these days, I suppose I'll understand why many UFOlogists so vehemently berate SETI. It's simply another tool in the arsenal. A longshot maybe, but certainly better than no effort at all, and one that any secret keepers could potentially be unable to contain, if such a signal was identified and easily able to be heard by anyone.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by nightwing
"I would suggest starting a new thread with this idea to see if there is any interest or not. I for one would contribute what I can. " == Hal9000

OK, you are soon to be on the spot. Let me see what I can work up on short notice. I have a few other things to toss out as well.

You can take your time, there is no rush. And it is not a challenge, just a suggestion.



"“The way to understand something is to measure it”. == Hal9000

Precisely. If you cant measure it, it aint real. Measurement is the most substantial of all observations.

Are you being sarcastic, or do you really mean that? Just because we don't know how to measure something, doesn't mean it isn't real. We can't measure gravity waves very well, but they are definitely real.



"many researchers have uncovered a lot of facts, and there is nothing wrong with their approach." == Hal9000

But is their approach the right one for the task ? I think not.

Well considering that the UFO phenomenon is still a mystery after all these years, maybe a new approach is warranted. But that doesn't mean historical research or investigating sightings is any less important.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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The only real problem is funding.

Sure people like to call UFOlogy ans Cryptozoology pseudo sciences - but the truth is little progress in any science can be made without resources.

And, unfortunately, unlike during the 19th and early 20th century, there is now significant organized social pressure to not do innovative research - especially on taboo subjects.

If anyone were to give me a 5 million dollar grant to study UFO's I guarantee I would have substantially furthered UFOlogy within 5 years.

As I have said before - one day a visionary - like many of us here - will get the funding they need to advance this science into respectability - until then it is practically our duty as ametuer researchers to compile as much evidence as possible to build a solid foundation for that science to occur.

Until then it's a waiting game - with the powers that being hoping that they will be allowed to do disclosure on their own timetable for their own selfish agenda.

Hopefully this arrogance of theirs will be their undoing in the end.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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The good news is that there are at least two differing (most likely) agendas, and that either party could decide at any time, to disclose everything.

Which means, the aliens themselves could easily force the hand of the secret keepers too....


However, after at least over half a century, it looks like secrecy fits their agenda as well. Personally, I fail to see how such disclosure will be good news, or comforting, as a secret agenda is likely not in our best interests...but at least we'll then know for sure, eh?



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Well yeah Gaz I think that is true.

But like you, I don't think at this point it must be in the aliens interest to rush disclosure anytime soon.

And given their likely longer lifespans, they are probably far more patient to accomplish their agenda then we can even imagine.

But just because they have an agenda does not mean that it is malicous or even exploitive in nature imho...

So I would rather know sooner than later as to what the truth is.

And if I were to get that grant you would be one of the first researchers I would hire around here to get the ball rolling - thanks for your excellent work in detailing (and debunking) UFO events on ATS!

[edit on 12-10-2005 by TruthMagnet]



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Well, I will say that I have no more need for UFO-ET research, at least not to prove they are real to me, that is. My switch is already flicked, through my own research and experience with the matter. I believe 100% in their existence. Call me coo-coo, crazy, or whatever ya want. I really don't care.

How is the government going to come clean of this, if they ever do in my lifetime? Hell we paid for it, why should they be allowed to keep what we paid for out of our knowledge? That's kinda like buying a car, cash, and walking home. Rediculous.

It is time. It is time we demand of our government to release what they know on the issue. And even moreso, it is time that we start applying what has been learned, through our financing, back to humanity in the form of free energy systems. They know it. They have it. And yet because of the trillion dollar oil industry, commanding such great wealth and power, they seek to keep us down, under their control, and buying their crappy, pollution causing oil and energy products. How much longer will the world continue to let this happen? The people keep paying, and the governments keep concealing. ENOUGH!!!



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman

As to the reasreach , I see exciting new things all the time in the UFO field. Like the Hessdalen Project.

Brazil opening classified UFO Files and giving Ufologists acces to those files.

The COMETA Report 1999.

The discovery of Extra-solar planets has happened in the last ten years.

The Discovery of conditions that could support Microbial life exist elsewhere in our own Solar System has been made in the last ten years.



Let me add the discovery that the Building Blocks of Life are common in our Galaxy to this short list.

www.nasa.gov...



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