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NEWS: An Islamic Guide On How To Beat Your Wife

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posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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ummm guys while you debate abt how women are opress in islamic third world country i would like to point where i come from maldives 100% muslim country wich is classifide as a thired world country. women weare most modern western coloths wether they choose to cover them self with hijaab is of their own choosing and when they do also most women prefer to were the head scarf only .




posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Mr. Mustafa wrote that verbal warnings followed by a period of sexual inactivity could be used to discipline a disobedient wife.


The funny part is that Western women have been using this on Western men for decades....


A guy using sexual inactivity to discipline his wife? Seriously....what is Mr. Mustafa on???




Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, how many years did you spend in Saudi Arabia?

Which parts of it?


I have to agree with Skadi, and I lived near Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for almost 3 years... Went to RICS (Riyadh International Community School) until they changed it to SAIS-R (Saudi Arabia International School - Riyadh).... Go Eagles! (if they are still called that, hehe...)


[edit on 24-10-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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who cares about this guide???

its just about morality...

like the kama sutra...

if beating your wife is ok in islam (i don't know if it is), then this book is ok...

thus, this news isn't news...





posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Freedom for Sum, show me the laws then.

Go for it...


I'm not going to re-post all the references I've already provided. Islamic law is based on the Qur'an and the Hadith. The Qur'an and the Hadith together promote the abuse of women. Therefore Islamic law promotes the abuse of women.


Originally posted by Odium
At first it was about domestic abuse, then it shifted to Islam allowing domestic abuse and now it has shifted to any abuse on women.


Uh....No. This thread is about a guide published describing how a husband should beat his wife. My position, which I stated several times, is that while this book raises eyebrows in the west, it is accepted as a legitimate instruction manual in Islamic countries ruled by Sharia law.

What do you think would happen if a religious scholar in England published a book describing how a man should beat his wfe? If your position is that Islam doesn't allow the practice of wife beating, why do you suppose this Imam felt free and unfettered to write such a book? Clearly, he didn't believe he would have gotten into trouble or received so much publicity. What exactly do you suppose gave this Imam the license to write a book about the methods/techniques of beating one's wife?


Originally posted by Odium
They are still under-paid compaired to men in the United Kingdom, to me that is also abuse.


Can you please provide the religious doctrine or legal references which state that women are to be paid less.


Originally posted by Odium
Check...mate.


Hardly!!!



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Nope, not every Islamic Nation uses the Qu'Ran to form their basis of law. So again you can't claim it is Islam.

Parts of the documents, the ones you quoted, are not law but persuasive passages. If it was otherwise, every Islamic Nation would accept it and they don't.

You have yet to display any cases, which show this being used. Your sources are "edits" of other documents to back up their own agenda.

Why have we seen religious leaders all over the World call to kill people? Abuse races? List can go on and on...one person, doesn't speak for every member of that Religion especailly when it makes up over a billion people.

It's simple on the U.K. one, the tax office has the ability to check and refer a company to the Courts on behalf of "Equal Pay Rights" on behalf of the woman or she herself can. Has this happened?

No.

So they are economically abused, with the tax office knowing about it.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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islamic law does not allow for abuse of women and children. the basis of the constitution of maldives is Quran and sheriaya law. and i for a fact know that if you abuse your wife you get 2- 3 years in the slamer or get banished to a island this has happend to a naboure of mine and my father was the lawyer for the wife.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by nightdeamon
islamic law does not allow for abuse of women and children. the basis of the constitution of maldives is Quran and sheriaya law. and i for a fact know that if you abuse your wife you get 2- 3 years in the slamer or get banished to a island this has happend to a naboure of mine and my father was the lawyer for the wife.


so...

its not an "islamic guide" as islamic law forbides this abuse???

an example:

i can write a christian book on how to kill people...

christianity doesn't allow killing...

so, it's not a christian book...





posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by nightdeamon
islamic law does not allow for abuse of women and children. the basis of the constitution of maldives is Quran and sheriaya law. and i for a fact know that if you abuse your wife you get 2- 3 years in the slamer or get banished to a island this has happend to a naboure of mine and my father was the lawyer for the wife.


Nightdemon;

How do you explain the treatment this young woman is getting under your legal system?

BTW; Congratulations on being one of the approximately 15,000 internet users out of a population of 350,000!



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:30 PM
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regarding her case thise has been going on for a long long time and both sides are quilty the government and oppositon which btw has no relevence to the topic at hand (she was not charged for disobying her husbend or some crap like that) we are actually going through a minor revelution changing of old gurd as such and it has gotten pretty dirty i must


ps: i would really love to see where you got the 15,000 thousend figer since one of the ISP claim over 25,000 conections in the capital alone



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Nope, not every Islamic Nation uses the Qu'Ran to form their basis of law. So again you can't claim it is Islam.

Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

just 2, theres more.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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namehere, which part of the Qu'Ran is it from?

Which translation?

Who translated Allah's words?

Which area of the Middle East and which year was it translated in?



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by nightdeamon
ps: i would really love to see where you got the 15,000 thousend figer since one of the ISP claim over 25,000 conections in the capital alone


That number was actually from 2002--so it's out of date. But I got the info from here. Scroll down to "communications".



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
namehere, which part of the Qu'Ran is it from?


Odium;

It's Surah 4:34. I quoted that same reference in this thread. I even included other translations of the that Surah.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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And we both went over it, I do believe I displayed many other meanings for it.

In fact, if people would bother to read al-Manar they would see this but again, people love to jump on the band-wagon, make attacks upon Islam and not do the research into the topic.

I suggest you both learn all the meanings behind the term, qawwamuna, nushuz and adribu.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Odium;

Are you going to answer my questions regarding that Imam who wrote the book?



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
namehere, which part of the Qu'Ran is it from?

Which translation?

Who translated Allah's words?

Which area of the Middle East and which year was it translated in?


the first is a commentary on the quran by Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jarir at-Tabari.

the 2nd is surah 4 verse 34, from web.umr.edu...



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by OdiumIn fact, if people would bother to read al-Manar they would see this but again, people love to jump on the band-wagon, make attacks upon Islam and not do the research into the topic.

I suggest you both learn all the meanings behind the term, qawwamuna, nushuz and adribu.


i have read 4 different translations, dont insult my intelligence


ps: its qawwamun, and it still dont change the mention of beating.

Nushuz: Animosity, hostility, rebellion, ill-treatment, discord, violation of marital duties on the part of either husband or wife.

Adriboo (root Daraba): to beat, to strike, to hit, to separate, to part etc.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by namehere]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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Why did he write it?

I guess because he has personnal issues. Why do some Catholic Piests abuse people? Why do some ministers from any Religion come fourth and spew hatred?

Namehere, then you know the word Adribu which here is translated as slap/hit/beat derives from the Arabic root daraba and has over 100meanings?

I also guess you know that it was translated as "beat" due to hadiths by Abu Dawud and Mishkat al-Masabih. Who were...both products of their era and altered things like many members of the Catholic Church did.

Wouldn't the term "to seperate" be the most likely?



4:34. ‘Men are in charge of (or overseers of - qawwamuna) women, as Allah has given them more (strength) than the other (sometimes translated as made them superior to the other), and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). Therefore women who are virtuous are obedient to God, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what God would have them guard. As for those women on whose part you fear rebellion (nushuz), admonish them and banish them to beds apart, (and last) seperate from(adribu) them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them. For God is Most High, Great (above you all).


Since I have time now I will explain a few other points of this passage.

Qawwamuna should be translated as stand out firmly/stand firmly, like it is in Surah, 4.135. In this case meaning to "take full care of them".

Nushuz should be translated as ill-treatment not rebellion like it is in Surah 4.128. Although the term nushuz has tens if not hundrads of meanings as well, it is primarily a term used for any level of bad behaviour towards another person.

Adribu as I have outlined above, has hundreds of meanings. In fact, amusingly the term Adribu is used to describe sexual intercourse in Lisan al-Arab.



Surah 42.41-42: ‘If any help or defend themselves (ie act in self-defence) after some wrong done to them, they are not held to blame for that. The blame lies only with those who oppress in wrongdoing, and insolently transgress beyond bounds, defying right and justice; there will be a serious penalty for them.’



Surah 4.128 we have already seen: ‘If a woman has reason to fear ill-treatment from her husband, or that he might turn away from her, it shall not be wrong for the two of them to set things peacefully to rights between themselves (ie. by agreeing to divorce), for peace is best, and selfishness is ever-present in human souls……’



Source: ‘Women of Madina’, Aisha Bewley’s translation of Ibn Sa’d vol 8.
‘I cannot bear the thought of a man with the veins of his neck swelling with anger against his wife, fighting her!’ he said.

Aishah recorded his statement to encourage the men to be gentler: ‘Among the believers who show most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition, and are kindest to their families.


If you look again into the actions of Aishah and Surah 42.41-42, it is clear that you can only strike your wife if she hits you first and it is self-defence.


Source: Surah 21.47
‘We shall place the just scales for the Day of Resurrection and no soul shall be wronged in any least respect; and even if there is only the weight of a grain of mustard-seed We shall bring it, and We are fully able to take account.’


It is clear, if people look into the meaning of the word that is translated. It is also important you understand Islamic divorce law.

Basically, it goes like this:
One of the persons [man or woman] must do an action which can seriously jeopardised the marriage.
The other party must then reason with them.
If this does not work, they should move to seperate beds and this is the first stage of divorce. This lasts for a month.
Then you have the second period of seperation which lasts another month.
Then you have the third period and the last month. After this the divorce can go to the judge and it is final. They have to get married once more to partake in sexual intercourse.

This is why they have to stop having sex, not as a form of punishment but due to the fact it is a part of the divorce process. When you see that the term adribu comes after seperate beds and can translate as "to seperate" and then you have a "third" to seperate come after...

Well...golly oh gosh.

[Divorce Law from an article I have by Wasalaam, Ruqaiyyah.]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by namehere
ps: its qawwamun, and it still dont change the mention of beating.


Actually, it's Qawwamuna and it comes from the root qawwam. Qawwamun is the often mistaken/typographical error for the term, however in the last few years both have came to be used interchangeable. [However, most Islamic websites will use my term.]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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well even so, do most muslims interpret it as you do odium?



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