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NEWS: An Islamic Guide On How To Beat Your Wife

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posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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By the way; I think some clarification is in order regarding the following words of the Prophet:

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) admonished men concerning beating their wives, saying, "None of you must beat his wife as a slave is beaten, and then have intercourse with her at the end of the day."

Is he saying "you must not beat your wife as a salve is beaten"? Or is he saying "you must not beat her then have intercourse with her"? The latter makes sense as he may be suggesting that sex with your wife after beating her would probably not be consensual (it would be rape). In either interpretation, wife beating is not specifically prohibited.




posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Freedom_for_sum, I never said he was a moderate. He's actually rather an extreme leader however I thought I would display someone who has spoken out against the actions that were put forward in that book.

Inayat Bunglawala I do believe is classed as a moderate Muslim, although I would say he is within the centre of the political spectrum.

Here is an interesting article you might want to read, although it is rather long as is this one but both might help your understanding on the issue. The second is actually an extreme view and doesn't agree with domestic abuse, however like the guy I spoke of before speaks of one time violence and this violence should "not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt".



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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Odium;

Thank you for providing a couple references placing this subject matter in context. Here are a few excerpts from the second article you provided on this subject matter:

"Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage."

Beat one's wife to "save the marriage"? I have extreme difficulty understanding this concept.

a) "According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions."

On a "farewell pilgrimage" the Prohet discusses the proper technique of beating so as not to cause injury? Of all things that a leader would discuss at this time he chooses this subject? And just so I understand: The whole purpose of of the husband physically asserting himself is to "shake the wife out of her nasty mood"? I wonder if this would work with my wife!! Uh--I already know the answer to that.


b) "The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up. "

And what can the wife do when her husband, frustrated by his inability to "shake the nastiness" outta her, ends up beating her senseless?

c) "If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her."

AH HA!! The only problem is that under Sharia law, a woman's testimony is only worth half that of a man's. She would need at least one witness (should be a male relative) to even be equivalent to her husband in the eyes of Islamic Law. Of course; what is the likelyhood that her husband would beat her while in the presence of witnesses?

Very interesting reading Odium!! BTW: It is not I you need to convince. Other than seeing and hearing these things going on around me, I have no stake in the game--unless of course the time comes when Muslims attempt to introduce Sharia law in the US. It seems to me you have more to gain by convincing other Muslims that yours are the correct views of Islam. And you can start by going to your local mosques/madrassas.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by Freedom_for_sum]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Freedforsum.

You seem to be under the impression that the beating of wives is strictly confined to the ethos of Islam, and wholly disregard national statistics around the non-islamic world.

www.justice.gov.yk.ca...
www.wildelife.com...

This site came up in my search of abuse, you may enjoy it.

www.submission.org...

India has a very ludacris spousal abuse rate, and this from a country where the majority religious adherent is Hinduism.

Luxifero



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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"If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her." "

lol!!! I love it!!! then when he gets her home, he can retailiate, and the she can go through the process again, and again, and again!!

I like it better in america, somewhat, he beats, she calls cops, he gets hauled off to jail, if only for the night, she splits while he's locked up, and files for a divorce, takes half of his assetts plus child support and alimony.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
I like it better in america, somewhat, he beats, she calls cops, he gets hauled off to jail, if only for the night, she splits while he's locked up, and files for a divorce, takes half of his assetts plus child support and alimony.


sadly, what happens in the US is more like this. he beats her, she calls the cops, she doesn't press charges. he beats her some more. she winds up in the hospital. she still doesn't press charges. either she finally sees the light and simply splits and files for divorce caring nothing about the money and all about her safety or she stays and he beats her until he is too old and too weak to do so anymore, then he will verbally abuse her until the day he days and she will actually cry at his funeral. not tears of joy.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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or, he beats her, she calls the cops, he goes to jail, she would leave if she could but there's no room in the shelter, he comes home, retailiates, she asks for help again, there is none, and well, she finally decides she is stuck, at least until the kids get older.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
Freedforsum.

You seem to be under the impression that the beating of wives is strictly confined to the ethos of Islam, and wholly disregard national statistics around the non-islamic world.


Luxifero;

To repeat myself here: I'm not saying there isn't abuse elsewhere. I saying Islam makes wife beating an accepted practice. It is sanctioned by the Qur'an, by way of Islamic law, as a means of marital reconciliation. Please show me where wife beating is an accepted practice in other ideologies/governments.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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It's far to late for me to bother...



a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.


It is a symbol to display the loss between the two of them and just so you know, the "Farewell Pilgrimage" was during that period a mass gathering of Muslim's. Can you workout why he said not to cause harm? Could it be to stop domestic abuse? My gosh...I do think so. :O Imagine that...

You seem to skip right over many of the important aspects of what is said in it. The Prophet whose word is law, has set down that 'beating' can be done but can't cause harm [think of it from a political view point, not removing their right to do something but removing the harm it causes] and allows women to get a divorce whenever she wishes although they are meant to at least try and work through any problems and not use divorce as an easy option out of marriage.

You forget what Sharia law is, as I pointed out earlier their are four types of Sharia Law only two are binding the others are persuasive. It is not binding that women are seen as 'less' than men it is a view point in one of the 'persuasive' texts of the Sharia law which can be thrown out at anytime.

And I'm not a Muslim, by no means one...that's far from which religion I am in fact a part of.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
"If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her." "

lol!!! I love it!!! then when he gets her home, he can retailiate, and the she can go through the process again, and again, and again!!


Actually, she would be given a divorce if he did break the law as well as the children and I do believe all of his money for beating her...



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Here are relevent articles about a woman who, after receiving systematic beatings by her husband, finally escaped the abuse by leaving the country:

Saudi TV presenter shows face beaten by husband

Excerpts:

Ms Baz's mother told Saudi media that Mr Fallatta beat her daughter regularly.

This time, the mother is quoted as saying, he became infuriated when Ms Baz answered the telephone.

After beating her, Mr Fallatta took her to hospital and fled, her mother reportedly added.

"I want to use what happened to me to draw attention to the plight of women in Saudi Arabia," Ms Baz said.

"It is considered a husband's rights that his wife should obey him," Abeer Mishkhas, of the Saudi English-language newspaper Arab News, told BBC News Online.

"This can involve coercion or violence, and we know that the majority of cases of this kind go unreported and unnoticed."

And this article from Arab News: Rania Flees, ‘Won’t Come Back’

'As for the reason why she fled, Rania told the British paper: “I was not safe any more in Saudi Arabia.” '

My question is: If Islamic law protects women, why does she need to leave her country? It's very compelling when a woman not only leaves her country but also her children!!!! The fact is: Islam and its associated laws are anti-women; relegating their status to property much like cows are to a cattle rancher.


[edit on 9-10-2005 by Freedom_for_sum]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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To repeat myself here: I'm not saying there isn't abuse elsewhere. I saying Islam makes wife beating an accepted practice. It is sanctioned by the Qur'an, by way of Islamic law, as a means of marital reconciliation. Please show me where wife beating is an accepted practice in other ideologies/governments.


You have been shown religious scriptures that procure the abuse of spouses, however, you chose to ignore them and further allude to Islamic verses which intensify this failed attempt to discredit an entire peoples based on verses which are not reacted upon religously and were codified by social dogma hundreds upon hundreds of years ago. Muslim men may beat wives, but they do so under circumstances which are wholly accountable to reasons of human behaviourism; couples do engage in verbal and physical abuse, and they do time to time rely soley on thier own will which is not influenced by any religious verse. If you can show me that Muslim men predominately beat thier wives due to religious reasons, then you may have a point, otherwise, it's moot to argue so.

You're skills in producing sites and verses in regards to spousal abuse is great, I commend you, now, show me simply praxeology that denotes a primordial, if not visceral instinct among Muslim men to adhere to these verses each and every day of thier lives.

Luxifero



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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Freedom_for_sum, the reason this happens is the same reason it happens in Europe, America in fact the whole of the World. The woman in question, like so many, doesn't know the rights she actually has.

There are cases all over the World of Women moving away, changing their name, identity and leaving children to escape a man and it isn't only in Islam it happens. If people were educated on their legal rights half of the problems wouldn't exist...but they are not. It is just a shame this woman didn't know the parts of the Qu'Ran, to quote and get her abusive partner locked up in jail.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Deuteronomy

22:28 Unmarried rape victim must marry her rapist



I dont know what sick femenist agent Bible you are reading marg6043, but here's the real verse (
unless you have made that verse up and posted knowingly false information... in which case the Mods need to step in
) :

Deuteronomy 22:30

22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. 23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. 25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. 30 A man shall not take his father's wife, nor discover his father's skirt.


[edit on 9-10-2005 by The_Modulus]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Gentlemen;

There is no law in the US, Europe, ot other western nations that allows for wife beating. In the US, a wife beater will be prosecuted for domestic abuse (In some extreme situations, the wife doesn't even have to press charges). Under Islamic law, it is ALLOWED!! I will offer here, however, that her husband apparently will face charges, if they can find him. But those charges won't be spousal abuse--they will be attempted murder (as per one of the articles). However, I will be watching this situation closely to see if anything ever becomes of it. If they find this guy, I believe that nothing will be done to him. I believe he will be exonerated and there will be a bounty put on her head which will mean her death if she were to ever return to Saudi Arabia. You watch.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Freedom_for_sum, I am training to be a barrister.

While the term Mrs [Mr's] is still in use, the Courts see a woman as property of a man. Sorry to let you know about this, the word itself has that meaning and the marriage law is dated to a time period when that meaning was used. [Golden Rule. R V Allen 1872.]

You also have not displated any law in the Middle East, which O.Ks abuse to a woman where as other laws, showing against it have been displayed. Ball is in your court, you have to display proof.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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I agree, I think some laws need to be shown that allow the beating of wives. These wild accusations are getting annoying.

Luxifero



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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Here is an excellent explanation of what Sharia is.

Since the Qur'an and Hadith are source documents providing the guidance of law, those things stated in the Qur'an (The words of Allah) are taken as law. Both the Qur'an and the Hadith provide for the beating of wives as a form of discipline.

I feel I have provided the references in this thread supporting my views. If you choose to not see or are otherwise unable to see Islam's subjugation of women and its values that conflict with the west's; then we can simply agree to disagree.

Maybe you can provide links where a beaten wife got a ruling in her favor under Islamic law. I can post several more examples where a woman got the "short end of the stick" so to speak.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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I'm sorry but we're well aware of your implications that the Sharia is some sort of codifed law that is implemented into the minds of all Muslims, but you have not begun to prove that Muslims abide by this law in totality. It's about as relevent as stating that the laws of the levites are adhered to wholly by Christians, and therefor Christians must obviously be proponents of it therein and delegate thier every action by it.

I've not seen any examples of state laws that dictate what you are stating.

Luxifero



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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The authority of Sharia is drawn from two primary sources, as well as two secondary sources. The first major source is the specific guidance in the Qur'an, and the second source is the Sunnah, literally the 'Way', i.e. the way that Muhammad (the Prophet of Islam) lived his life. (The compilation of all that Muhammad said, did or approved of is called the Hadith.)

A lesser source of authority is Qiyas, which is the extension by analogy of existing Sharia law to new situations. Finally, Sharia law can be based on ijma, or consensus. Justification for this final approach is drawn from the Hadith where Muhammad states; "My nation cannot agree on an error."


And your problem is working out which part 'wife beating' comes from. Let me quote your source once more.



Several Hadith urge strongly against beating one's wife, such as: "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her? (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43), "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)". However, some suggest that these Hadith were later abrogated, noting that in the Farewell Pilgrimage, he said:

Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner. (Narrated in Sahih Muslim, on the authority of Jabir.)



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