Bush latest comment on Flu, page 2

Good thread: Not only doea the bird flu have the ability to kill millions, it might also destroy any Freedoms we have left.

You think Bush & Co. is feeling the heat= RoveGate, Delay, Frist, The powers that be are hurting, just like all encombent presidents in the last 60 years or so. Bush's 6th year as president is looking like a turkey shoot, you don't think he is loosing sleep about the Heat that is bein directed towards him, first he used Katrina as a Excuse to do away with Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (18 USC 1385), now he is using the pending bird flu pandemic. Simple minds tend to use violence to solve there problems, and Bush has shown he does not admitt to making mistakes. I think he will do what ever it takes to hold onto power.

Is the bird flu allready here in North America?

www.rense.com...

this is why he have the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (18 USC 1385}

www.propertyrightsresearch.org...

1. Why haven't we needed the military to be the first responders of national emergencys since 1878?, But now we do?
2 Why does Bush wish to Use the military as first responders so much? When we haven't needed them to this point?
3 The military could not protect us on 9/11, and they haven't been able to secure Iraq, what makes you think they can do a Better job with national disasters?
4 Why does Bush seemingly, want More power of any US president since
Abraham Lincoln? unless its to suit his own needs??

I don't trust him with the powers he has, much less anymore powers.

peace

From the CDC;

Infected birds shed flu virus in their saliva, nasal secretions. and feces. Susceptable birds become infected when they have contact with contaminated excretions or surfaces that are contaminated with excretions. It is believed that most cases of bird flu infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry or contaminated surfaces.

www.cdc.gov...

I'm guessing that the virus is still not widespread enough to cause a pandemic this year. The migrations are starting, as Valhall pointed out, but I don't believe the finch you see outside has been infected...yet.

From what I understand about it...the best way to avoid infection is to be careful around birdfeeders and bird baths, washing thoroughly after handling any surfaces a bird has been on. Also, if you're cleaning poultry for a meal, it would be a good idea to be careful with it.

Oh. yea...and, if a gull bombs your cherry Mustang, don't wipe that off with your hankerchief and then blow your nose with it.

This week is Avian Flu Awareness Week... G.W. Bush and leaders of a number of nations are scheduled for a meeting in Canada to deal with this very real threat.




[edit on 4-10-2005 by masqua]

Well all the speculation can be safely put to rest regarding the Bush Regime's desire to implement Martial Law. In a blatant disregard for Constitutional Protections designed to prevent the Military from being used for Domestic Law Enforcement, Bush is now pushing as hard as he can to get this out of his way. The excuse this time, Avian Bird Flu Outbreak.
Know something we don't Shrub?

www.boston.com... Bush wants right to use military if bird flu hits
By Charles Aldinger | October 4, 2005

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush asked Congress on Tuesday to consider giving him powers to use the military to enforce quarantines in case of an avian influenza epidemic.

He said the military, and perhaps the National Guard, might be needed to take such a role if the feared H5N1 bird flu virus changes enough to cause widespread human infection.

"If we had an outbreak somewhere in the United States, do we not then quarantine that part of the country? And how do you, then, enforce a quarantine?" Bush asked at a news conference.

"It's one thing to shut down airplanes. It's another thing to prevent people from coming in to get exposed to the avian flu. And who best to be able to effect a quarantine?" Bush added.

"One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move. So that's why I put it on the table. I think it's an important debate for Congress to have."

And the Bold Face lie of the day is...

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters he was not aware of any current planning by the military to help respond to a flu pandemic.

No Plan huh? I'm sure Bush just announces new Policy with no forethought or planning.
Guys this isn't about Bird Flu. Are we going to let Uncle Sam have the Military Policing us over 60 deaths in Asia?

Originally posted by whita
I was watching a documentary last Friday in which they said the first case of human-to-human transfer had been recorded.

westpoint
there is no strand of this virus that can be transferred from human to human, yet

ATS, at the able hand of Valhall, has been reporting that avian flu has made the humn-human jump since July.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a sliver

ATSNN: In your opinion has H5N1, or some variation of it, achieved sustained human-to-human transmission in the Asia/Pacific region?

Niman: H5N1 is transmitting human to human. How sustained this transmission has been is difficult to accurately assess because testing has been virtually non-existent in many countries and there appear to be milder version transmitting in northern Vietnam. The situation in China is uncertain. Third party reports have described sustained transmission of milder strains. However, China has never reported a human case of H5N1 and information flow from China appears to be decreasing. Sustained transmission of a highly fatal disease will eventually be exported. Right now the clear export is H5N1 infected birds, which have spread throughout Asia.

ATSNN: The Indonesian health authorities seem very concerned about the fact the three family members who died from H5N1 this month did not have exposure to live poultry. WHO is being more guarded in this, stating they want "further investigation" into that claim. Do you have anything you can share with us on this situation?

Niman: The disease onset dates for the Indonesian families strongly suggests human-to-human transmission within the family. The exposure of the index case remains unclear. The surviving family has insisted that there was no exposure to poultry. H5N1 has been detected in poultry and swine in the area and additional unrelated cases are under investigation. The track record of Indonesia reports of H5N1 in birds is less than ideal as are initial reports on this family, which raises the possibility of additional cases which could have contributed to the infection of the index case.

westpoint
Anyone recall the year 1918?

Please explain how having federal control of the national guard would've made a difference back then???? You fight a health issue with health preparations, not by issueing soldiers shoot-to-kill order for anyone breaking curfew or gathering in groups larger than 10.

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by worldwatcher

well how exactly do you control the outbreak of a pandemic without a quarantine?? And I would think the Military is most prepared to enforce such a quarantine.

QUARANTINE WON'T WORK.


Quarantine is just a cover story - quarantines won't work for bird flu. The real plan is about establishing military rule to protect corporate feudalism - and it won't stop with bird flu "quarantines."


From: WHO Pushes for Bird Flu Vaccine Production

Bird flu can be transmitted in a variety of different ways: between animals, birds and humans via physical contact or droplets in the air; in feces and urine and therefor, in water and soil and from contaminated surfaces. More to the point, the virus apparently can survive an unusually long time without a host.

For example, British microbiologist Professor Hugh Pennington is urging a ban on poultry feathers from China because of possible contamination with the H5N1 bird flu virus.

Feather pillows may carry Asian bird flu

Poultry feathers imported from China to make products such as pillows could carry the avian flu virus, says a British microbiologist who is urging the British Government to consider banning them.

Presumably to protect the nation's poultry industry, the CDC skims right over the fact that bird flu is present in the meat of infected birds, including ducks and chickens. The CDC "fact sheet" also neglects to mention that this flu strain can present with gastrointestinal symptoms, and without other "typical" flu symptoms.

We report the first case of avian influenza in a patient with fever and diarrhea but no respiratory symptoms. Avian influenza should be included in the differential diagnosis for patients with predominantly gastrointestinal symptoms, particularly if they have a history of exposure to poultry.

Atypical avian influenza (H5N1). Emerg Infect Dis. 2004 Jul;10(7):1321-4. Apisarnthanarak A, Kitphati R, Thongphubeth K, Patoomanunt P, Anthanont P, Auwanit W, Thawatsupha P, Chittaganpitch M, Saeng-Aroon S, Waicharoen S, Apisarnthanarak P, Storch GA, Mundy LM, Fraser VJ. Thammasart University Hospital, Klong Luang, Pratumthani, Thailand. PMID: 15324560

***

From Patriot Act II. Update. Posted on 2-3-2005


......the stage is set for NORTHCOM to implement quarantines for whatever ails US safety and security. Federal officials have been brushing off old quarantine laws and urging states to do the same for the past four years. Camps already exist.

"After the 2001 anthrax attacks, U.S. officials urged states to update old quarantine laws."

www.charlotte.com...


U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS

Quarantine is politically useful and expedient - but it's completely ineffective against most modern diseases. Not only are modern diseases different, but quarantine never works if you don't clean the barn. In this case, the barn is the whole planet.

"Dr. Keiji Fukuda, an influenza expert at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.But Fukuda said H5N1 was spreading so fast and so far that traditional efforts to control it - culling, vaccinating and quarantining flocks - would not always work.

Bird flu may be in Asia to stay, officials fear

Government Plans for Flu Epidemic: Update
WHO warns of bird flu pandemic
Russian Expert Fears Flu Epidemic May Kill Over A Billion People This Year.
Bush Pushes Wrong Flu Vaccine to American People

Originally posted by justme1640
I am more alarmed by the fact that Bush is actually voicing a concern about Avian Flu -- my feeling is more one of - what does he know that we don't know yet?

Justme - you should read at least one or 2 of the links provided above. FYI -

H5N1 is a well known, long identified threat. "H5N1 has laid waste to poultry stocks across wide swathes of Asia but it doesn't restrict itself to chickens. People, pigs, dogs, domestic cats, tigers and leopards -- the virus has surprised experts by showing it can infect far afield without acquiring the non-avian genetic material once thought to be necessary for it to jump species."
H5N1 jumps species WITHOUT non-avian genetic material

Suspected person-to-person spread was first reported in January of 2004.
www.nytimes.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


January 30, 2004
"scientists report that their findings support the idea that the SARS virus made the jump from animals to humans, probably multiple times."
www.sciam.com...
"Chinese scientists have found more evidence the SARS virus jumps from animals to humans, possibly frequently."
www.cbc.ca...
[Same is true of bird flu]



...Scientists have been screaming warnings about this (and other pandemics) since FMD/ASMA jumped species back in the 1970's - once FMD appeared in domestic turkeys in the USA in 1980, and in trout in 1981, they started screaming bloody murder.

...Because the original mutations usually took decades to create acute symptoms and become life threatening - the warnings were dissed. Instead, the diseases were 'played' as a business opportunity - a way to make $$$ treating early symptoms.

Then, FMD appeared in Japanese quail in 1996, quickly mutated into H5N1 bird flu in 1997 in Hong Kong - and the writing was undeniably on the wall. When antiobiotics suddenly started causing new rapidly progressive antiobiotic-resistant mutations about 2 years ago - there still was time to stop it all.

But nothing was done. Now it's too late - quarantine won't work.



More:

1999 - WHO - "Influenza pandemic preparedness plan. The role of WHO and guidelines for national or regional planning." Geneva, Switzerland, April 1999

September 23, 2004, "Warning on flu pandemic"
"Scientists working for the World Health Organisation fear that the arrival of the flu season in Asian countries could see the human flu virus merge with a lethal strain of bird flu that is already in circulation, producing a more deadly flu virus that could rapidly infect humans, leading to a global outbreak."
www.guardian.co.uk...

"Avian Influenza Outbreaks Create Concern About Human Infection Mayo Clinic Researchers Warn"
www.mayoclinic.org...

"The Next Influenza Pandemic: Lessons from Hong Kong, 1997"
www.cdc.gov...

Also, RE: the FMD link.

Julian LM. The occurrence of fibromuscular dysplasia in the arteries of domestic turkeys. Am J Pathol. 1980 Nov;101(2):415-24. PMID: 7435545
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Braga IS 3rd, Tanaka S, Itakura C, Mizutani M. Fibromuscular dysplasia in intramuscular arteries of Japanese quail (Coturnix coturnix japonica). J Comp Pathol. 1996 Feb;114(2):123-30. PMID: 8920213
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

From the Brazilian Journal of Veterinary Research and Animal Science ...
www.scielo.br...


Well there you have it. The sketch, with references. But hey. Don't let the facts get in your way...

Have there actually been a few cases of human to human contact they haven't told us -- and is there a possiblity of someone in early stages of infection (perhaps someone who was at that zoo?) who has gotten on a plane and is somewhere in the US or Canada and they are just waiting for the first cases to be diagnosed?

Yes.




See: March 8, 2005 Version: CDC "Key Facts" about bird flu

For example, the current CDC fact sheet says H5N1 bird flu doesn't cross species barriers. In fact, H5N1's ability to cross species is what makes it so dangerous. Over the past few years, H5N1 has been reported in birds, pigs, cats and other animals.

September, 2004: Re: Bird flu

"It seems this virus (H5N1 bird flu) is quite versatile - it appears in pigs, cats and other animals, so it can appear in places that were never thought about before." Omi said. "This virus is very infectious," he added. (Shigeru Omi, WHO regional director for the Western Pacific)

....................

Fearful expert tells of bird flu in pigs

FYI - the evolution of this flu has been tracked since 1980 when a human disease called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD) first was found in domestic turkeys in the USA (see Pubmed, Julian).

By 1996, FMD had spread to quail in Japan.

By 1997, it had evolved to H5N1 bird flu in Hong Kong.

...somewhere during this time, researchers in Brazil documented the presence of FMD in avian reovirus - a contagious but non-deadly bird virus - showing the evolutionary path.

Also FYI - FMD causes mutations in the stem cells for connective tissue, via an actin protein. ...actin is present in virtually every cell of every species on the planet - it appears that FMD uses actin and actin related proteins to cross species and kingdom barriers, and to hitch-hike on viruses, bacteria etc to spread. Numerous diffrent mutation tracks have evolved over the years, bird flu being only one.

.....also FYI - US agencies and institutions like the Mayo Clinic and CDC have been issuing dire and urgent flu warnings since 1997...as has the World Health Organization. ...every epidemiologist and nation in the world knows it's coming, and has for several years.

However, many leaders in government and industry support a policy of 'benign neglect.' The theory is that a major plague will take care of the world's overpopulation problem, weed out the weak - and leave behind a superior and immune human population.


*******

"H5N1 has laid waste to poultry stocks across wide swathes of Asia but it doesn't restrict itself to chickens. People, pigs, dogs, domestic cats, tigers and leopards -- the virus has surprised experts by showing it can infect far afield without acquiring the non-avian genetic material once thought to be necessary for it to jump species."
www.canada.com...

"WHO refutes claims that bird flu virus originated from China"
www.chinaview.cn 2004-01-31 13:24:00

Suspected person-to-person spread was first reported in January of 2004.
www.nytimes.com...

"Playing chicken with public health"
www.bangkokpost.com...

January 30, 2004
"scientists report that their findings support the idea that the SARS virus made the jump from animals to humans, probably multiple times."
www.sciam.com...
�Chinese scientists have found more evidence the SARS virus jumps from animals to humans, possibly frequently.�
www.cbc.ca...

�AFTER killing millions of chickens and ducks across Asia, bird flu is feared to have jumped to some exotic species, killing a heron in Cambodia and possibly a leopard in Thailand.�
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

April, 2004.
"The EPA modelers say science is being altered to suit objectives."
http//www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-na-science29apr29,1,723517.story
www.911ea.org...

July, 2004.
"US scientists need better ways to fight the influence of industry and politics on scientific inquiry,... Whether they are studying global warming, environmental toxins, or workplace safety, scientists who find their research unjustifiably shunned or suppressed face similar challenges from corporate and special interests...
...Baird also took the scientific community to task for failing to respond to the suppression of science (and contended that) scientists ... must "stand up for the democratic process itself."
...An April 2004 General Accounting Office report ...said some departments have appointed members of industry and stakeholder groups, persons who are exempt from conflict-of-interest rules. Industry leaders may therefore theoretically be profiting from their own advice."
Fighting for integrity. Delegates at a CSPI meeting dismayed at corporate influence, politicization of science.
www.biomedcentral.com...

September 30, 2004.
"...our world is imperiled by a terrifying monster. Scientists try to sound the alarm, but politicians ignore the threat until its too late. Indifference ultimately turns into panic."
www.commondreams.org...

Fri 1 October, 2004 10:52
"GENEVA (Reuters) - The top World Health Organization (WHO) influenza expert said on Friday drug companies and governments had to speed up production of bird flu vaccines or risk a pandemic which could kill thousands (ed. very obvious spin) of people.
...Only Aventis Pasteur Inc and Chiron Corp -- with contracts from the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) -- are currently developing a human bird flu vaccine.
...Under the two deals, under which 2.4 million doses will be produced, NIH is paying for costly clinical trials. The WHO provided the prototype strain used to develop the vaccines.
...In the event of a pandemic, Europe which is home to 70 to 75 percent of the global drug manufacturing capacity would be key to producing sufficient quantities. "But the reality is none of their companies is investing in developing a pandemic vaccine."
..."Some companies say they don't see the market and why invest money. Others say intellectual property rights would be impinged on,"
...Four groups -- a U.S. company and three U.S.-based research institutes -- claim the patent covering reverse genetics, a complex technology used to remove avian pathogenicity from the virus in WHO's prototype vaccine"
Cached at:
www.tilrc.org...

October 20, 2004
"With polls showing that Florida is once again too close to call, President Bush on Tuesday assured the state's flu-wary retirees that "we have millions of vaccines doses on hand for the most vulnerable Americans" as his administration said that 2.6 million more doses would be available by January. ...Tommy G. Thompson, said ...the total would be about 58 million doses in all." (But didn't mention that 55.2 million of those doses were the wrong vaccine.)
Source

The Spanish flu was the most devastating epidemic of modern times...possibly all times. When it struck it killed more than the world war. Over 100,000,000 people died world wide. Now there are worries that the new bird flu may be worse. There is gene work being done now on a frozen sample of the original trying to make a vaccine. The worries is that the original flu was transported around the world three times and this was before the mass transportation of airplanes.

Rest of story here.

Now we find out that they are actually creating viruses from scratch. Makes you wonder how many viruses out today were engineered??

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