Bush latest comment on Flu

People, people...

I think bush has the right idea, but the wrong way to enforce it. As many of you know, and masqua pointed out, migratory birds will be one of the initial vectors into the US, however...H5N1 has a 3-7 day head start on us.

You can't contain a pandemic when it finally breaks out because by the time you throw a quarantine around an area, the "human" vectors will have already traveled throughout the land.

For instance, say Joe gets infected by a wild bird and H5N1 finally recombines with joes common flu virus...tada, you now have your index patient who will become infectious for the next several days, sharing this novel variant of H5N1 with several others, who then spread it still further.

By the time Joe or any of the others become symptomatic and seek medical help, the pandemic is well under way...quarantine would be useless now UNLESS.... and this is a biggie, the entire country shut down for several weeks.

That could work if the government made sure travel was prohibited. They would also have to supply food and supplies to those in need, which (if everyone knew and prepared for this) would be doable.

Anyone have a better plan?

They all flew here today! All of them - at the same time. LOL! It was like a scene from the birds. They stayed about 30 minutes to an hour and headed on south.

{{{They all flew here today! All of them - at the same time. LOL! It was like a scene from the birds. They stayed about 30 minutes to an hour and headed on south}}}

I am in the South and have lived here for 28 years, and usually birds will gobble all the food and water, but all my birds I loved so much are NOT here.

Reminds we of a book by Linda Goodman in which she says:

'If the birds ever do not sing, there will be no spring.'
I have found her to be an accurate teacher..

call me whacky, but I miss my wild life..
Were all the birds you saw the same species?


[edit on 4-10-2005 by siriuslyone]

Good thread: Not only doea the bird flu have the ability to kill millions, it might also destroy any Freedoms we have left.

You think Bush & Co. is feeling the heat= RoveGate, Delay, Frist, The powers that be are hurting, just like all encombent presidents in the last 60 years or so. Bush's 6th year as president is looking like a turkey shoot, you don't think he is loosing sleep about the Heat that is bein directed towards him, first he used Katrina as a Excuse to do away with Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (18 USC 1385), now he is using the pending bird flu pandemic. Simple minds tend to use violence to solve there problems, and Bush has shown he does not admitt to making mistakes. I think he will do what ever it takes to hold onto power.

Is the bird flu allready here in North America?

www.rense.com...

this is why he have the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (18 USC 1385}

www.propertyrightsresearch.org...

1. Why haven't we needed the military to be the first responders of national emergencys since 1878?, But now we do?
2 Why does Bush wish to Use the military as first responders so much? When we haven't needed them to this point?
3 The military could not protect us on 9/11, and they haven't been able to secure Iraq, what makes you think they can do a Better job with national disasters?
4 Why does Bush seemingly, want More power of any US president since
Abraham Lincoln? unless its to suit his own needs??

I don't trust him with the powers he has, much less anymore powers.

peace

From the CDC;



www.cdc.gov...

I'm guessing that the virus is still not widespread enough to cause a pandemic this year. The migrations are starting, as Valhall pointed out, but I don't believe the finch you see outside has been infected...yet.

From what I understand about it...the best way to avoid infection is to be careful around birdfeeders and bird baths, washing thoroughly after handling any surfaces a bird has been on. Also, if you're cleaning poultry for a meal, it would be a good idea to be careful with it.

Oh. yea...and, if a gull bombs your cherry Mustang, don't wipe that off with your hankerchief and then blow your nose with it.

This week is Avian Flu Awareness Week... G.W. Bush and leaders of a number of nations are scheduled for a meeting in Canada to deal with this very real threat.




[edit on 4-10-2005 by masqua]

do pigeons get bird flu? there are millions of them in new york, and their poop is part of the tapestry of life here.

To get some things clear.

H5N1 so far can only be transmitted from birds to humans from the activities listed above, there is no strand of this virus that can be transferred from human to human, yet. When (according to scientists it’s a matter of when not if) the virus mutates and is able to go from human to human we will have a pandemic. That's why its so hard to develop a vaccine for this virus, how can you develop a vaccine for something which doesn't even exist yet?

Well all the speculation can be safely put to rest regarding the Bush Regime's desire to implement Martial Law. In a blatant disregard for Constitutional Protections designed to prevent the Military from being used for Domestic Law Enforcement, Bush is now pushing as hard as he can to get this out of his way. The excuse this time, Avian Bird Flu Outbreak.
Know something we don't Shrub?


And the Bold Face lie of the day is...

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters he was not aware of any current planning by the military to help respond to a flu pandemic.

No Plan huh? I'm sure Bush just announces new Policy with no forethought or planning.
Guys this isn't about Bird Flu. Are we going to let Uncle Sam have the Military Policing us over 60 deaths in Asia?

What's that quote...? Oh yes, the one about those that do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it.

Anyone recall the year 1918? Surly it cant happen again right, because...???

I was watching a documentary last Friday in which they said the first case of human-to-human transfer had been recorded. This instance involved transfer of the virus from a girl to her mother. The girl had been exposed to poultry and the mother had not. It was admitted that this was not a 100% scenario but the were pretty certain this was how the mother got infected.

The defining moment, aparantly, will be when it can be transferred between non-family members. Meaning that it is easy for the virus to move from person to person in a more closed family environment, but dificult for it to survive in "the open".

Quarantine is seen as about the only way to stop it, but that also brings a multitude of problems because of economies etc. Therein lies the real danger. 150 million lives out of 6 billion, callously, is not that big a percentage - a "statistic" as Stalin would have said - but the associated hardships it will bring as society stops interacting, businesses and services fail and possible panic will be the really telling blow.

I must admit if I lived in the states I would want the military to handle disaster response on a state and nationwide scale. They seem a lot more efficient than civilian equivilants at the moment.

i would think something this serious would be covered on the news all the time with people all over freaking out. especially if it is only 30 days like someone in here said. the news agencies LOVE disaster and death stories. im surprised they haven't pounced on this one just like they did the hurricanes, and the SARS outbreak.

what is their motivation?


Kind regards
Digitalgrl

Traditionally we don't seem to be worried about warnings.
- People stayed in New Orleans with a hurricane coming (ignoring for a moment the debate about whether they had a choice).
- There were warnings about the 2004 Tsunami even.
- Warnings about 911
- and so on.

Seems like there are always warnings, but how often are they acted on? Maybe that is a changing trend with all that has happened in the last few years. Maybe this possible pandemic is being highlighted now earlier than it would have in the past and people are starting to think about what is going to happen more.

This seems to be reasonably big news here, but with it (bird flu) now being found in Indonesia and on Australia's doorstep, it isn't much of a leap to see that it will be in New Zealand soon after.

ATS, at the able hand of Valhall, has been reporting that avian flu has made the humn-human jump since July.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a sliver



Please explain how having federal control of the national guard would've made a difference back then???? You fight a health issue with health preparations, not by issueing soldiers shoot-to-kill order for anyone breaking curfew or gathering in groups larger than 10.

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Nygdan]

QUARANTINE WON'T WORK.


Quarantine is just a cover story - quarantines won't work for bird flu. The real plan is about establishing military rule to protect corporate feudalism - and it won't stop with bird flu "quarantines."


From: WHO Pushes for Bird Flu Vaccine Production

Bird flu can be transmitted in a variety of different ways: between animals, birds and humans via physical contact or droplets in the air; in feces and urine and therefor, in water and soil and from contaminated surfaces. More to the point, the virus apparently can survive an unusually long time without a host.

For example, British microbiologist Professor Hugh Pennington is urging a ban on poultry feathers from China because of possible contamination with the H5N1 bird flu virus.







Presumably to protect the nation's poultry industry, the CDC skims right over the fact that bird flu is present in the meat of infected birds, including ducks and chickens. The CDC "fact sheet" also neglects to mention that this flu strain can present with gastrointestinal symptoms, and without other "typical" flu symptoms.




***

From Patriot Act II. Update. Posted on 2-3-2005


......the stage is set for NORTHCOM to implement quarantines for whatever ails US safety and security. Federal officials have been brushing off old quarantine laws and urging states to do the same for the past four years. Camps already exist.






Quarantine is politically useful and expedient - but it's completely ineffective against most modern diseases. Not only are modern diseases different, but quarantine never works if you don't clean the barn. In this case, the barn is the whole planet.






Government Plans for Flu Epidemic: Update
WHO warns of bird flu pandemic
Russian Expert Fears Flu Epidemic May Kill Over A Billion People This Year.
Bush Pushes Wrong Flu Vaccine to American People

I understand everyone is worried about Bush wanting to do away with regulations, laws, etc to activate the military for a quarantine. But I am more alarmed by the fact that Bush is actually voicing a concern about Avian Flu -- my feeling is more one of - what does he know that we don't know yet? I think they (the government, news media etc) are not letting us know all the details of what is happening in regards to this but are putting out bits of information here and there so that when it does happen they will say "Well we told you it was going to happen - don't act surprised"

Have there actually been a few cases of human to human contact they haven't told us -- and is there a possiblity of someone in early stages of infection (perhaps someone who was at that zoo?) who has gotten on a plane and is somewhere in the US or Canada and they are just waiting for the first cases to be diagnosed?

Last night the ex-wife called ( that in its self is worthy of its on thread) and said this..

"I know you go to that conspiracy web site..what are they saying about this bird flu"

She was asking becasue the "bird flu" made the local news in Portland Oregon last night. They even made mention of the "posability" of a huge querintine(sp). As I dont live in Portland I will see what I can do about digging up any transcripts from last nights broadcast.

On a differant note I am curious, am I, a Airline employee at more of a risk then the general public. At least in the early stages. I know we see many many sick pax every day and many of us take precations yet still get sick..

**PS i love ATS, thank you for providing a great site**

Coho

Justme - you should read at least one or 2 of the links provided above. FYI -

H5N1 is a well known, long identified threat. "H5N1 has laid waste to poultry stocks across wide swathes of Asia but it doesn't restrict itself to chickens. People, pigs, dogs, domestic cats, tigers and leopards -- the virus has surprised experts by showing it can infect far afield without acquiring the non-avian genetic material once thought to be necessary for it to jump species."
H5N1 jumps species WITHOUT non-avian genetic material

Suspected person-to-person spread was first reported in January of 2004.
www.nytimes.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


January 30, 2004
"scientists report that their findings support the idea that the SARS virus made the jump from animals to humans, probably multiple times."
www.sciam.com...
"Chinese scientists have found more evidence the SARS virus jumps from animals to humans, possibly frequently."
www.cbc.ca...
[Same is true of bird flu]



...Scientists have been screaming warnings about this (and other pandemics) since FMD/ASMA jumped species back in the 1970's - once FMD appeared in domestic turkeys in the USA in 1980, and in trout in 1981, they started screaming bloody murder.

...Because the original mutations usually took decades to create acute symptoms and become life threatening - the warnings were dissed. Instead, the diseases were 'played' as a business opportunity - a way to make $$$ treating early symptoms.

Then, FMD appeared in Japanese quail in 1996, quickly mutated into H5N1 bird flu in 1997 in Hong Kong - and the writing was undeniably on the wall. When antiobiotics suddenly started causing new rapidly progressive antiobiotic-resistant mutations about 2 years ago - there still was time to stop it all.

But nothing was done. Now it's too late - quarantine won't work.



More:

1999 - WHO - "Influenza pandemic preparedness plan. The role of WHO and guidelines for national or regional planning." Geneva, Switzerland, April 1999

September 23, 2004, "Warning on flu pandemic"
"Scientists working for the World Health Organisation fear that the arrival of the flu season in Asian countries could see the human flu virus merge with a lethal strain of bird flu that is already in circulation, producing a more deadly flu virus that could rapidly infect humans, leading to a global outbreak."
www.guardian.co.uk...

"Avian Influenza Outbreaks Create Concern About Human Infection Mayo Clinic Researchers Warn"
www.mayoclinic.org...

"The Next Influenza Pandemic: Lessons from Hong Kong, 1997"
www.cdc.gov...

Also, RE: the FMD link.

Julian LM. The occurrence of fibromuscular dysplasia in the arteries of domestic turkeys. Am J Pathol. 1980 Nov;101(2):415-24. PMID: 7435545
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Braga IS 3rd, Tanaka S, Itakura C, Mizutani M. Fibromuscular dysplasia in intramuscular arteries of Japanese quail (Coturnix coturnix japonica). J Comp Pathol. 1996 Feb;114(2):123-30. PMID: 8920213
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

From the Brazilian Journal of Veterinary Research and Animal Science ...
www.scielo.br...


Well there you have it. The sketch, with references. But hey. Don't let the facts get in your way...





Yes.




See: March 8, 2005 Version: CDC "Key Facts" about bird flu

For example, the current CDC fact sheet says H5N1 bird flu doesn't cross species barriers. In fact, H5N1's ability to cross species is what makes it so dangerous. Over the past few years, H5N1 has been reported in birds, pigs, cats and other animals.






FYI - the evolution of this flu has been tracked since 1980 when a human disease called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD) first was found in domestic turkeys in the USA (see Pubmed, Julian).

By 1996, FMD had spread to quail in Japan.

By 1997, it had evolved to H5N1 bird flu in Hong Kong.

...somewhere during this time, researchers in Brazil documented the presence of FMD in avian reovirus - a contagious but non-deadly bird virus - showing the evolutionary path.

Also FYI - FMD causes mutations in the stem cells for connective tissue, via an actin protein. ...actin is present in virtually every cell of every species on the planet - it appears that FMD uses actin and actin related proteins to cross species and kingdom barriers, and to hitch-hike on viruses, bacteria etc to spread. Numerous diffrent mutation tracks have evolved over the years, bird flu being only one.

.....also FYI - US agencies and institutions like the Mayo Clinic and CDC have been issuing dire and urgent flu warnings since 1997...as has the World Health Organization. ...every epidemiologist and nation in the world knows it's coming, and has for several years.

However, many leaders in government and industry support a policy of 'benign neglect.' The theory is that a major plague will take care of the world's overpopulation problem, weed out the weak - and leave behind a superior and immune human population.


*******

"H5N1 has laid waste to poultry stocks across wide swathes of Asia but it doesn't restrict itself to chickens. People, pigs, dogs, domestic cats, tigers and leopards -- the virus has surprised experts by showing it can infect far afield without acquiring the non-avian genetic material once thought to be necessary for it to jump species."
www.canada.com...

"WHO refutes claims that bird flu virus originated from China"
www.chinaview.cn 2004-01-31 13:24:00

Suspected person-to-person spread was first reported in January of 2004.
www.nytimes.com...

"Playing chicken with public health"
www.bangkokpost.com...

January 30, 2004
"scientists report that their findings support the idea that the SARS virus made the jump from animals to humans, probably multiple times."
www.sciam.com...
�Chinese scientists have found more evidence the SARS virus jumps from animals to humans, possibly frequently.�
www.cbc.ca...

�AFTER killing millions of chickens and ducks across Asia, bird flu is feared to have jumped to some exotic species, killing a heron in Cambodia and possibly a leopard in Thailand.�
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

April, 2004.
"The EPA modelers say science is being altered to suit objectives."
http//www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-na-science29apr29,1,723517.story
www.911ea.org...

July, 2004.
"US scientists need better ways to fight the influence of industry and politics on scientific inquiry,... Whether they are studying global warming, environmental toxins, or workplace safety, scientists who find their research unjustifiably shunned or suppressed face similar challenges from corporate and special interests...
...Baird also took the scientific community to task for failing to respond to the suppression of science (and contended that) scientists ... must "stand up for the democratic process itself."
...An April 2004 General Accounting Office report ...said some departments have appointed members of industry and stakeholder groups, persons who are exempt from conflict-of-interest rules. Industry leaders may therefore theoretically be profiting from their own advice."
Fighting for integrity. Delegates at a CSPI meeting dismayed at corporate influence, politicization of science.
www.biomedcentral.com...

September 30, 2004.
"...our world is imperiled by a terrifying monster. Scientists try to sound the alarm, but politicians ignore the threat until its too late. Indifference ultimately turns into panic."
www.commondreams.org...

Fri 1 October, 2004 10:52
"GENEVA (Reuters) - The top World Health Organization (WHO) influenza expert said on Friday drug companies and governments had to speed up production of bird flu vaccines or risk a pandemic which could kill thousands (ed. very obvious spin) of people.
...Only Aventis Pasteur Inc and Chiron Corp -- with contracts from the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) -- are currently developing a human bird flu vaccine.
...Under the two deals, under which 2.4 million doses will be produced, NIH is paying for costly clinical trials. The WHO provided the prototype strain used to develop the vaccines.
...In the event of a pandemic, Europe which is home to 70 to 75 percent of the global drug manufacturing capacity would be key to producing sufficient quantities. "But the reality is none of their companies is investing in developing a pandemic vaccine."
..."Some companies say they don't see the market and why invest money. Others say intellectual property rights would be impinged on,"
...Four groups -- a U.S. company and three U.S.-based research institutes -- claim the patent covering reverse genetics, a complex technology used to remove avian pathogenicity from the virus in WHO's prototype vaccine"
Cached at:
www.tilrc.org...

October 20, 2004
"With polls showing that Florida is once again too close to call, President Bush on Tuesday assured the state's flu-wary retirees that "we have millions of vaccines doses on hand for the most vulnerable Americans" as his administration said that 2.6 million more doses would be available by January. ...Tommy G. Thompson, said ...the total would be about 58 million doses in all." (But didn't mention that 55.2 million of those doses were the wrong vaccine.)
Source

News of the future:

-Today an infected bird flew into Chicago and Bush declared martial law for the entire metro area. Those trying to escape will be shot on sight.

-Any people caught coughing or sneezing will be sent to FEMA internment camps and share germs with the real sick ones. One bowl a rice a day, since most the farmers are locked up too.

-Bushco announces fear reduction plan for your freedom. Federal prisoner factory workers feel safest of all.

- 7 million people died today from contiminated bird flu vaccines. Roche labs manufactures new vaccines to those who still must be vaccinated by order of Bush.
____________________

The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin

Head like a hole. Black as your soul. I’d rather die than give you control. - Trent Reznor
____________________

Terror scare, flu scare, scare of scares...fear driven reprobates don't deserve freedom. Free-USA coming soon to a fearless nation near you, all the rest can rot away as prisoners.

Now for some perspective:
How many have died from the 'plain old' flu?
From drunk drivers?
From food poisoning?
From an infection after stubbing their toe?

Let's mobilize the military against the citizens if there are mass toe stubbings...yeah that's the ticket!





















[edit on 5-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

Rest of story here.

Now we find out that they are actually creating viruses from scratch. Makes you wonder how many viruses out today were engineered??

_____________________________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

actually I have read most of those links and none of them address what briefings the President may be getting that has more information than is available to any of the (including some very intelligent yet very superior and condescending) members of ATS. Unless you haven't told us that your job is one of the people who brief the President daily then I apologize for not picking that up.



once again a wonderful bunch of informative links that really don't address the concern I had - that the governments know of individuals who were at the Zoo where the people later well hospitalized - who may have left the country and boarded a plane and flown to the US or Canada or anywhere else for that matter. And that they are just waiting for cases to be reported in those countries from that exposure.

Now - so you know - I generally do read all of your links as you do provide a lot of really good information -- but sometimes I admit I don't read them ALL as you sometimes tend to overwhelm people with the number you put in each post. But I have always put that down to your enthusiam for getting the information out.

So while I am sorry that I may have responded to your rather sarcastic reply in a heated way -- Believe me in many previews of the post and revisions of what I was saying I have really really toned down my reply.

So while I will still read your posts with interest and for the information you provide I will also remember that you obviously feel far superior to the average ATS poster and will try to not offend you with my thoughts - however along the same line you could put me on ignore and not have to be bothered with my concerns at all.

jm