Chavez is just acting as much anti-US as possible. It might not be the best economic move since the US economy is strong and still growing. The Fed is still raising rates to try to keep inflation down since there is going to be so much building going on. Saying the American empire is going to fall is foolish. I may not like this but I believe China and America are basically economically married now. We may quarrel like any couple does but it doesn't change economic facts of how much cross border trading and investment has already occurred. Since China's GDP will equal or surpass the US in only a matter of 15 to 20 years estimated, China will become a major player along with the US. A married couple united together against a common enemy wields alot of power. I really think Chavez is either sending a statement or getting nervous. Moving a few billion dollars out of US currency is hardly a drop in a trillion dollar economy.

Chavez is crapping his pants. The move, while not ill-considered, is tied to the death threat from our Mr. Robertson. He's correct to think that Robertson wouldn't float a death threat on his show without having some prior approval from the White House. Aside from general ignorance and poor diction, Bush has exhibited one thing quite clearly since becoming Governor of Texas - he is quite happy killing strangers for no or little reason. Ask what would happen if Chavez's plane crashed. Less than happened when Senator Wellstone's did, which was nada. He's right to be worried. But you have to admire his cajones.

The U.S. is the worlds largest consumer.... of junk. Lets face it. We buy some of the cheapest (price and quality) garbage in the world. We are severely overextended with our credit. It requires both adult members of the family to work fulltime jobs. We think we are a "rich" nation but when it comes to the family unit we have made ourselves a very "poor" nation. We have had to sell our souls to get the little pile of junk we call stuff. And what does the U.S. manufacture that the rest of hte world wants? Not a whole lot.

Are we rich? No. We are in debt. If we lived like much of Europe where credit wasn't used so freely and where it is more common for only one adult in the family to work we wouldn't be as "rich" as we think we are today. We would however be alot happier.

The US may be the world's largest consumer, but there are nations such as China and India with vastly accelerated growth among middle classes, these nations will be competing with the US for resources. The future of the US economy appears to me to be not nearly as bright as some on this threat seem to hope.

Chavez has been struggling with the US for a long time, I doubt he's worried about Pat Robertson, more likely just taking the opportunity to get some press. He knows how to soak it up, remember his offer directly to the American people, cheap oil! A real slap in establishment face.

The people of his nation chased after Chavez when he was taken down by a coup which had US intelligence assistance all over it. Cell phones were used to track the kidnappers and Chavez was rescued, in large part, by everyday people. He also did something few leaders would do, he freed his kidnappers.

Amen, brother. I've worked out of the house for the past 9 years just to be close to the kids. I truly pity the parents who do't get theat opportunity. We're working harder than our parents did (X 2) for the same basic lifestyle with a few more gadgets. Big deal. It is just junk. We don't even have cable and my kids clamor (at 7 and 9) for cell phones and I-pods. Hard to avoid the message of consumerism. But the axe will fall. Living on borrowed time. Nice post.

Chavez is just digging his own grave here.

Chavez is just digging his own grave here.

How so?
How much public support do you think a war against Venezuela is going to get?
Especially with things in Iraq going so swimmingly...

I don't expect this move to amount to much. Venezuela dumping US securities is hardly going to collapse the US economy. It's a purely symbolic gesture.

[edit on 10/4/05 by xmotex]

Chavez is tricky...

he knows how to play with the tools he has...
but he is blowing his wad all at once, and that spells inside knowledge...

He is betting that oil value will overcome the threat of Nationalization of the oil companies...

you want to see how much big oil controls the world politics?
just wait until he totally nationalizes the oil industry.
The military would be used to grab them back...

Posted by: Jeremiah_John
On: Mon October, 3 2005 @ 15:58 GMT
ROFL - "US is empire about to die."

Jeremiah John said:
"all we had was A BREIF SPIKE IN GAS" in regards to Hurricane Katrina.

?!?!
Dude, the US economy is FU**ED! Gas was 79 cents a gallon in New Jersey in 1997. What caused the big long ass spike we have been in since then?

The US economy is headed for a recession like we have never seen before. Go buy all the ammo for your guns that you can so at least you can hunt when you can't afford food anymore.

Originally posted by Odium
China is already over-taking America in many areas and it is only a matter of time till America is no longer the top dog.

noooclear boooombs.

Every nation hate the US, more or less. As they grow more powerful, they will oppose the US, like Venezuala. That means that they'll be in conflict with the US, and that means that they'll be annihilated, have their infrastructure destroyed at a minimum. Global Thermonuclear War. Whenever china becomes a economic superpower, it'll start using that as leverage against the US, and the US will, backed into an economic corner, simply go to war with it. China won't be able to nuke the US, because of MAD, and in the end the Chinese infrastructure will be rent to peices. Without that, even without occupation, they're finished. Anyone Nation that is going to seriously challenge the US has to be completely neutral and not do anything like what China, or Venezuala, or even Europe, tends to do, get in its crosshairs. From a position of supremacy, it'd be rather difficult to knock the US down. Certianly it'd require a massive thermonuclear arsenal, and only russia and the US have that, and Russia ain't gonna be a challenger anytime soon.

Originally posted by REASON
relax......

The US empire failing stuff is a little overboard on this thread.

You have to understand that the US is the largest Consumer in the world when it comes to goods and services.

Anything bad for the US can be very costly to the world. All will suffer....

Only until the global economy adjusts to the realignment.

Consider that trade between all continents are vital for sustained goods, where each and every economy's wealth is dependent on and measured by the world valuation of currency. Is it to say that yesteryear's Canadian; Euro or Pound Sterling where they were worth fewer greenbacks meant that those economies were not booming? No! there is a vast difference between what constitues a going concern and what constitutes one on the fringes of bankruptcy;- assets in excess of liabilities. Curency valuation is but an adjustment on the balance sheet, so it cannot turn an excess of liabilities over assets into an excess of assets over liabilities, unless utilizing Enron style accounting. And while the impact to the various shareholders may mean a difference in the number of zeros to the left of the decimal point, in any market return on investment is measured by investment regardless of valuation. The proof of this lies in the cost of inflation.

As a result, while investors may moan and groan about the devalued worth of their holdings, it would be all relative for those who invested wisely--since when measuring returns, a 17% yield will always be a 17% yield, no matter the investment amount.

The point is that while many countries will find their asset differential devalued in terms of currency, they will be hard-pressed to account for a percentage differential unless of course they relied on investing in one currency. And if a devalued US dollar means that necessary goods established to trade in US dollars, cost less for other countries to buy, where is the loss to those countries?

It doesn't matter, if you are the largest consumer in the world or the smallest, the economy will get (worse)! It doesn't matter, it's those, who whole the largest dollars, you have to worry about. for now the Us is King, the euro is political, somehow when that alternative boat comes everyone will jump ship. The problem is with the idealogy, Oh america the beautiful!!!! (I have to change it abit) WE can never fail!!! we are robust as ever, our economy will be resilient forever. We will have our own way forever!!!.... You get the point..


(edited for inappropriate language)

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Byrd]

Chavez is the business man after all, what many have fail to see is that like many others has posted pointing out that is going to be bigger and more demanding markets in the making in Europe and they will become very dependent on oil.

Chavez is playing his cards very well, in his mind he probably is ditching US for the new markets that he will be able to control.

He wants to unified South American and if he does that South American will become a power on its own.

I have to say the interest this article has generated and the intellect displayed in many of the posts is indicative of the quality of this site. Also, the diversity of opinion amongst posters from literally around the world make it worthwhile just for the perspective.

Big changes are often signaled beforehand in small ways. The timing of Chavez's actions may be devised to put a little additional pressure on at a difficult time for the US economy. Don't fool yourselves, people, the effects of the two hurricanes that slammed ashore in the Gulf last month are just beginning to be felt across the country, and the fallout is far from over. We are stretched thin right now and we need to recognize. This is no time to be high-fivin'.

I have great faith in the American people to see it through difficult circumstances. We have met and dealt with and continue to meet the challenges of being the greatest nation of modern times. The key to our success has been the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome those challenges. The spotlight is on us, and I believe we will once again rise to the occasion, for such is our nature.

I have sensed a realization of this sweeping across the country in the last weeks, in the wake of the hurricanes that smashed the Gulf Coast. Oftentimes it takes a great disaster, or a string of them, to get people's attention focused on the things that really matter. I think this realization is spreading from the lowest spirits of the hurricane victims to the highest levels of government, and its going to bring this country together and get us back on course.

Hugo might just end up sorry he bailed on our banks.

Anyone seen the markets today?

Looks like he was onto something...

It was only a short while ago, after the death of King Faud, that Saudi Arabia declared it's intention to withdraw $350Billion USD of it's investments/holdings in the US and re-invest in the European markets instead.

Chavez is not the first, and by no means the biggest, player to take his money elsewhere.