No I agree there. The powers that be will not be too happy with the dissident administration....

One to watch developements

If enough of the little dogs take a stand, even the big dog will get off the porch.

I find this both promising and horrifying. Promising in that I believe other nations should have more influence in how geopolitics work - and with the US stranglehold on the world it isn't always possible.

It is also horrifying in that if this country degrades into disorder for whatever reason, it will be a hard time for us all.

This is quite a story, and I am interested to see how it unfolds. Chavez is a shrewd operator, and he is obviously fed-up with the U.S. Either he's expecting a financial collapse here, or he's trying to start one.

Icarus I wonder what Chavez knows that we don't about the US economy that he is making his move now.

You never know.

He Knows what you and I already know.. the U.s economy is no good. But what other misguided americans still believe and have the politicians tell them is propganda patriotism, The U.S dollar is the end all and be all. For Now the Euro is the alternative currency, note well the euro is only a POLITICAL CURRENCY. Period. When the world find a good alternative currency, preferably Gold backed like the coming GOLD DINAR, then they will make the switch. Note, don't expect The whole world will follow suit. It might cause a short to medium term drop in the greenback, and it might stay shallow for now.

It's when the big Central banks in Asia, and the Oil sheiks in Saudi start to dump the dollars, then you all better to start to worry. I am making a spreadbet on the greenback to lose value over the next 6-8 weeks.

The fact is obvious. America is an empire ready to die. Lets keep it rleal people, they have only had world power since the end of World War II. Insignificant. The military is always the last part of an empire to be vanquished. And we can see where thats headed.

People these are little ticks and trend signals that we can't ignore, it's time to do some action and start switching our assets, protecting what little some of us may have.

relax......

The US empire failing stuff is a little overboard on this thread.

You have to understand that the US is the largest Consumer in the world when it comes to goods and services.

Anything bad for the US can be very costly to the world. All will suffer.

Anyway on to the point of this thread. I dont understand why chavez is so paranoid. he has oil and we want and are currently buying it. no big deal.

Just because some goofball at the 700 club calls for his death doesnt mean he should shift his whole country down a more militaristic road.

People please enlighten me..... what am I missing here.

-Reason

[edit on 3-10-2005 by REASON]

ROFL - "US is empire about to die."

Yeeaaah.

If you want an idea of how strong this country's economy is, well look at Katrina and Rita. This country was essentially hit with 500 megatons worth of non-radiation nuke damage and all we had was A BREIF SPIKE IN GAS and a little inflation on building materials.

This, while the country's biggest war since Vietnam has been rolling for four years.

An area of the US the size of Great Britain was destroyed last month, and if you didn't live there you would not know it happened without media access.

California alone is the world's 5th largest economy, and even Vermont has twice the GNP of North Korea.

This country isn't even going to blink at re-alignment of economics in some tiny South American country, and it sure as hell isn't about to implode.

The U.S. is buying oil and Chavez is dumping U.S. holdings it says one thing. Chavez has no faith in the US dollar in the near future or down the road. Now couple this with the recent drop off in China buying bonds and you have the start of something to keep an eye on

Originally posted by Jeremiah_John
ROFL - "US is empire about to die."

Yeeaaah.

If you want an idea of how strong this country's economy is, well look at Katrina and Rita. This country was essentially hit with 500 megatons worth of non-radiation nuke damage and all we had was A BREIF SPIKE IN GAS and a little inflation on building materials.

This, while the country's biggest war since Vietnam has been rolling for four years.

An area of the US the size of Great Britain was destroyed last month, and if you didn't live there you would not know it happened without media access.

California alone is the world's 5th largest economy, and even Vermont has twice the GNP of North Korea.

This country isn't even going to blink at re-alignment of economics in some tiny South American country, and it sure as hell isn't about to implode.

I think you missed the point. What we're saying is...what if everyone else follows suit. That could be very critical for the US. We're not looking at it like, "Oh my god, Venzuela left!", we're looking at it like, "Holy crap. An entire nation just left the dollar and went for the Euro (again). What if everyone else does this?"

It isn't a short time possibilty, but, it could feasibly happen, and that is what's frightening...the possibility.

Look what he has done with the oil well agreements in his country. His mention of "the threats" from the US are well founded; Robertson isn't the only one that's opened his mouth too much. Chavez won't be caught with his pants down and his pockets empty if the US ever decides to freeze assets. This guy has oil to sell, no shortage of buyers, and is stretching his wings in anticipation of flying to the top of South America's leadership.

Who can blame him? It's time to try some real diplomacy, folks, instead of nurturing a potential enemy.

Venezuela isnt the first country to wage dollar warefare against the United States. Iraq did it a few months before they were publically ear-marked for regime change. I can see Iran moving to trade its oil in Euro's in light of Venezuela's latest move.

Its a shame that Americans will be lumped in with the retribution the World will slap their country with. By and large they dont deserve the devestation that will wrack their economy when the bubble bursts. It happend in Japan in the early 90's and it happend to Germany a few years after that, it will happen to the United States too.

Originally posted by Mayet
No I agree there. The powers that be will not be too happy with the dissident administration....

One to watch developements

I wonder why is it that noone is thinking about the possibility that "the powers that be" are those backing people like Chavez to kick start the real NWO....

I guess most people around here think the NWO can only be done by the US government huh?....

Yes, because we all know the current seat of power for the entire globe is Carracas

Wouldnt logic state that the powers that be would reside in a powerful location?

So Chavez finally got around to out and out theft--methinks he had better keep a close watch on his posterior.

I think Hugo Chavez sent a very powerful and plain message to anyone who might be considering investing in Venezuela: Don't.

Now that Venezuela (already a poor candidate due to its guaranteed-to-fail command economy) has a proven track record of nationalizing foreign companies, who'll invest millions of dollars to set up factories, pay taxes, and hire locals when they know that Chavez can expropriate their property and investments? What he has done is simply to try and kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. His foreign investment will dry up and he'll be left as a one-trick pony with nothing to offer but petroleum.

This means he'll be riding the same up-and-down economic rollercoaster that any individual or country has to suffer by tying its entire economy to a single commodity.

I have a feel that Chavez and the Venezolanos are going to be in for a tough time over the next five to ten years.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I think Hugo Chavez sent a very powerful and plain message to anyone who might be considering investing in Venezuela: Don't.

Actually that logic really applies to all of South America IMHO. Way too much risk for the potential returns.

I doubt hardly that this is the beginnin of the end of the American Empire for many reasons.

The United States in addition to being a country is a concept unlike many others. Our national identity is made up of many diverse cultures that while they preserve individual cultural identity, we also embrace a collective culture as a whole. My family for example celebrates 4 different New Years each and every year. That type of broadbased culture tied togehter as one is tough to break apart. Each immigrant each culture, brings with them something to the pot and we are stronger for it.

People have pointed to the fall of the Roman Empire and tried to draw parallels to it. WHile there are similarities, the diversity and the makeup of the United States is vastly different. Present war aside, nor is any part of the US. being held by force as it was during the Roman Empires heyday.

Vast productivity. Aside from oil, the US has huge coal reserves and an agricultural steamroller that really is the worlds breadbasket. You cannot go far without food.

I could go on for days, but to suggest that because some South American dictator with issues that has dumped US Securities is the beginning of the end of the US is nuts.

It is all really meaningless, since the European Banks own the Federal Reserve to a very large extent. All your taxes go to paying the interest on the national debt, which substantively goes to the European Banks. In this global banking economy Chavez simply deposits everything in another branch of the same bank. Feel like a sucker do you? All your taxes go to pay a debt that was created out of nothing, but whose payment is returned in your hard earned money in its taxation without representation. With very few exceptions the principle is never reduced, when it is reduced, the global bankers create wars to insure debt created out of nothing but continually repaid over and over again in interest.

If you came from outer space and wanted to take over the entire earth, what more simple way could you envision than compound interest? You would stand back and watch the stupid earthlings fight one another into mutual submission, while collecting all the spoils of war and a limited peace.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by SkipShipman]