Extreme Urban Organic Farming

Ontario grows a portion of its produce year round in greenhouses as it is. But these houses are outside of the cities and not taking up valuable property.

GREENHOUSES ARE VITAL PART OF ONTARIO ECONOMY

The Ontario greenhouse industry has a present investment of over $2 billion in structures, not including warehousing, pack houses and associated business. At the current rate of expansion, the industry is targeting a further investment in rural Ontario of some $20 million per annum.

www.theontariogreenhousealliance.com...

Pepper Production

Most greenhouse peppers in Ontario are produced in hydroponic systems. The majority of them are grown in rockwool (an inert growing media with excellent water-holding capacity) with some in foam, coconut fibre and NFT (nutrient film technique). In all these systems the need to disinfect the soil is eliminated. The improved ability to manage plant growth and adjust nutrients results in producing better quality crops with reduced energy for a longer harvest period.

All greenhouse pepper growers use an Integrated Pest Management approach in controlling the pest populations. The use of numerous tools such as biological control agents, predators and parasites, greenhouse environment and some biologically-friendly pesticides such as insecticidal soaps are used to control pests in the greenhouse. It is a virtually pesticide-free way of keeping crops healthy. Bumble bees are used in some of the pepper greenhouses to improve fruit quality.

www.foodland.gov.on.ca...

The hot(house) provinces
Ontario, British Columbia, Quebec and Alberta have the largest areas under plastic and glass. Ontario, with its large population and ready access to large American markets, continues to dominate greenhouse production in Canada.

www.statcan.ca...


I have spent many years in Ontario Greenhouses because that was my job for 15 years. I've been on the sight of most major grow operations in southern Ontario including houses that grow vegetables, bedding plants, seasonal plants and tropical importers. I've also been directly involved in the import and export of plant material to and from Ontario.

I think I come to this topic with some knowledge.
Yes I did read the article.

I just don't see the advantage to stacking these containers up to grow crops when we can grow them on cheap land near a city in a regular greenhouse.

Whatever you say.

It would cost a bit more energy to power the lights but the cost savings in Transporting the goods will still pay for themselves. It's like arguing that 100 workers in a sweatshop can outperform a modern day mass production factory producing the same thing. It's just taking that methodology and applying it to food production. I don't see how you cannot see the benefits of vertical farming with very little wastage. Remember that Environmental footprint is something we should all be aware of going foward, this has the potential to have the smallest yet.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Whatever you say.

You discount my post with one line.

Have you ever worked on a farm???
Have you ever been inside a greenhouse???
Have you ever been involved in food production???
Have you ever worked in the food distribution chain???

This idea is just a novelty, some mans fancy idea that will never pan out.
Sure, one might be built as a demo, but the money will run out and the idea will never come to fruition.

To an extent, it would work. Its not as practical as it seems. What did they say they could produce from a set, something like the product of 100 acres of land?

Thats nothing. While its a good way to use some space and make some cash, its not going to supply your entire city.

You could not grow many plants in them. (only certain ones would work)

If you have ever seen a mushroom farm... if you want to call it that, they already work on a similar verticle space saving formula.

Its a neat idea, but I would not depend on it.

I dont care how much produce you can make, the shipping costs of conventional out of city land is far better off. You can make more product with better success.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by Dulcimer]

Hmm I should note that I think it was mushrooms that they were growing in stacks not lettuce. My mistake.

Dulcimer is right though, mushrooms are grown in beds of heat sterilized animal excrement (fecal matter), that are stacked inside large buildings that can be environmentally controlled.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Whatever you say.

It would cost a bit more energy to power the lights but the cost savings in Transporting the goods will still pay for themselves. It's like arguing that 100 workers in a sweatshop can outperform a modern day mass production factory producing the same thing. It's just taking that methodology and applying it to food production. I don't see how you cannot see the benefits of vertical farming with very little wastage. Remember that Environmental footprint is something we should all be aware of going foward, this has the potential to have the smallest yet.

Actually we use a greehouse type technology here at Michigan State for our organic farm. It's a project that has been running for about 3 or 4 years now. It doesn't use electricity. It use a platic covering to funnel in light and heat. Crops are able to be grown almost year round there. I think January or february is the only down time for the farm.

I think the idea does have some merit though might make a reseach project for prospective grad students in argiculture and Ag engineering.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by silentlonewolf]

Spring Wheat Production

Delayed planting and forecasted higher abandonment in Manitoba, along with slightly lower seeding intentions across Canada (down 1.4% from last year), has affected the total wheat harvested area forecast. Currently the USDA forecasts Canada harvested wheat area at 9.65 million hectares, down 2 percent from last year. Canada’s wheat production for 2005/06 is forecast at 24.0 million tons, down 9 percent from last year. While crop conditions in Manitoba are reported to be below-average, they are being more than offset by overall above-average crop reports in Alberta and Saskatchewan where crops have been rated approximately 80-90 percent good to excellent condition by the Canadian provincial agricultural departments. The current USDA above-average yield forecast of 2.49 tons per hectare accounts for historical wheat production across the Prairies. In 2004/05 Manitoba produced 15 percent of the wheat crop, while Alberta, Saskatchewan, and eastern Canada produced 30, 47, and 6 percent, respectively.

www.fas.usda.gov...

How do you stack 9.65 million hectares???
And that's just the wheat in Canada.

People have no idea of the vast scale that agriculture is produced on.



EDIT TO ADD: I just re-read something Dulcimer said;

What did they say they could produce from a set, something like the product of 100 acres of land?

Thats nothing.

This is soooo true. When you stand in the middle of the prairie, and all you can see is open fields for miles around, 100 acres is a small patch of land.

I know people with half acre lots north of Toronto, and they stand around at parties and talk about their country living.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective................

[edit on 8/10/2005 by anxietydisorder]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder

People have no idea of the vast scale that agriculture is produced on.

Many don't; many do. Those who do are looking for options and alternatives. Most options considered involve different crops, and a new diet (ie., lose the bread.)

BTW - Have you ever heard of Soylent Green?

I guess it's all a matter of perspective................

Yep.


Problem: Rapid and radical climate change; traditional crops don't grow. In any event, agro-industry is not sustainable - for example, the Ogallala Aquifer supplying water to the US Bread Basket is now depleted almost completely. Fish stocks are near depleted world wide. The list goes on.

What are the alternatives?

Originally posted by Dulcimer
Hmm I should note that I think it was mushrooms that they were growing in stacks not lettuce. My mistake.

Actually, there is a vertical hydroponic method that can be used for a lot of different crops. Disney's Epcot has an extensive greenhouse going that is fascinating, but I'm sure quite expensive to run where you can see this. The pavillion it's in includes a leisurely ride through the greenhouses that is more of an educational thing than a thrill, but I highly recommend it for a cool down break when the fatigue sets in during a full day of Epcot. I believe all of the produce served in this pavillion is from these greenhouses, and it is a great spot to get a fabulous and healthy meal (always packed).

For an additional fee there is a "backstage" type walking tour that goes further in depth on the whole thing which is practically a one on one opportunity (groups are I think restricted to about 10) to learn all about alternative growing methods in depth. I enjoyed it immensely

soylent green
Now that does take me back a few years

On the other hand, I would imagine a person could get the majority of the nutrients need to survive in capsule or tablet form but I, for one, would not want any government deciding on what goes into them. Plus it would take the pleasure out of candlelight dinners.

Using the containers for growing produce is a good idea. There's only one problem I can see. Plants grown outside get full sun, wind, temperature changes and become tougher. The leaves are thicker as is the skin of the vegetable like tomatoes.
I don't know how plants would do in metal containers. The only time I've tried to grow in metal containers, the plants died.
They could cut some windows, a door and convert them into low income housing for those who are destitute.

An article I read recently shows mankind is skirting the edges of this horror. The Chinese are using extracts from executed criminals to inject into other humans, to get rid of wrinkles. Ghastly!

www.infowars.com...

Next time you kiss those pouty lips of your favorite girl, you might inquire about where her lipstick is made.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by Alikospah]