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Was saddam also a victim of prisoner brutality

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posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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I fond some photo's on the net that were a bit disturbing.
the day they found saddam I didn't see any pictures video etc,
but heard a confirmation on it on tv, well this is how he got aressted.

This is the place were saddam was hidding.



the tunnell that leads to an uderground shelter.




now after they found the tunnel saddam then immediately surrendered or other wise the Us task force was planning to destroy the tunnel which they still did after capturing saddam.

And this how Saddam Hussian got captured.



and look how they arrested saddam very cruel this increadible even saddam got the prisoner treatment from the US.
I only could find this on the net but there could be more.

After being captured they took saddam to base.

Saddam sitting on the sofa with hands tide up.



if you look at his hair its in a mess.

Saddam walking out of the compound.




saddam being viewed by other multi and American forces.





My question to you is, is this the right way they treaded saddam.

And why isn't saddam being given to the Iraqi autorities for questioning.

Clearly Saddam should be brought to the international court in the Hague in Holland if the Americans don't want to give saddam over to the Iraqi autorities.

And do you agree that it was right to go to war on a pack of lies on WMD issue?

"They found saddam but they couldn't find the Weapons Of Mass Destruction increadible isn't what money and oil can do to a power hungery president called bush"




[edit on 2-10-2005 by Interseptor]




posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Was saddam also a victim of prisoner brutality

I doubt that he has been subjected to abuse by other prisoners? I thought he was in solitary confinement.

He may have been subjected to brutality by his captors, but who can say?

They found Saddamn, who, if i remember, was guilty of mass genocide and other inhumane acts towards his fellow country men.

Is Saddamn still alive? Is he watered and fed? Has he been tortured? Has he had his head hacked off? Has he been mistreated in the way he would have treated POW's during the first Gulf War? All these questions need to answered before any questions can be answered about his treatment in captivity.

The guy is still alive and kicking. He cannot be handed over to Iraqi officials for trial. They would hang him as soon as look at him.

In my opinion, and it is my opinion, he deserves all that is coming to him Period........

As to the WMD, that has been covered before on ATS.

[edit on 2-10-2005 by Bikereddie]



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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" Was saddam also a victim of prisoner brutality"


I certainly hope so. But no.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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If I remember right, one of the soldiers who first pulled Saddam from that hole claimed that Saddam spat in his face and he got the butt of a gun to the mouth quickly after.. that would explain the bloody mouth.

If that is abuse that is about as bad as it was for Saddam.

Really, Saddam has done very little in his life to earn any sympathy from anyone.

The fact that he is still living should be amazing to anyone.

I wonder what the outcome would have been if it had been the citizens of Iraq who found him first.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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In my opinion, and it is my opinion, he deserves all that is coming to him Period........

As to the WMD, that has been covered before on ATS.


I'm sure its been covered, but what was really found?

A single Sarin shell buried for more than a decade, and a few EMPTY Mustard Gas shells that were buried even longer.

Is that proof that Iraq had WMD?

No, it is not.

It is proof that Iraq did not have WMD.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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I can't believe that someone actually cares about the well-being of Saddam. A man who ordered the torture and murder of THOUSANDS of Iraqi prisoners, often without trial, during his reign of terror. The man was a fugitive from justice who was hiding in a hole and armed with a handgun. The soldiers who captured him had no idea what they were up against... for all they knew he could have been packed with explosives. I think they handled his capture with more respect and dignity that he deserved.

It was reported that he spit and/or punched one of the soldiers who pulled him out of the hole, and was given a rifle butt in return. That is completely reasonable use of force in that situation. Any other military in the world (excluding some Western nations) would have done a lot worse to him.

We aren't required to send Saddam to the Hague. His crimes were committed (for the most part) in Iraq and against the Iraqi people. They are perfectly capable of trying him. The last thing the world needs is Saddam on trial in the Hague for years pulling the same kind of crap and putting on the same kind of dog and pony show that Milosevich did.

There is nothing wrong with parading Saddam before the men and women of the Coalition forces upon his capture. During a time of war, such things are done to boost morale. Those were the very people who gave up their normal lives at home to come free the Iraqi people from the clutches of that evil tyrant, and they had every right to see him for the cowardly animal that he is. If it were my decision, he would have been placed in a cage and hung in Time Square for a few weeks where everyone could come and throw eggs and rotten produce at him.

Saddam has had a few complaints while in captivity, ranging from the bad food to not being able to see his lawyers as much as he wants. One thing he has not claimed is abuse by the hands of the Americans guarding him. In fact, if you read anything regarding his inprisonment you would see that he actually made friendly with his guards and often engaged in various friendly conversations.

The man was living like a homeless person for several months. He's not going to look pretty once he's captured. You should have looked a little harder at the pictures you provided, especially the hole he was in, and realize that a 70-something year old man cannot live as he did without getting a little banged up. It's funny that you even care about him being abused, because of the situation was reversed he sure wouldn't give a damn about you and your well-being.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 08:22 PM
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I can't believe that someone actually cares about the well-being of Saddam. A man who ordered the torture and murder of THOUSANDS of Iraqi prisoners, often without trial, during his reign of terror. The man was a fugitive from justice who was hiding in a hole and armed with a handgun.


Please explain how Saddam was a fugative from Justice.

He was the legally, and constitionally elected leader of Iraq that was forced to flee in the face of an illegal invasion.

America can not bring Saddam Justice because America has no legitimacy in Iraq.

The special court trying Saddam, and the appointed foreign Judges are illegitimate.

They are a violation of both Iraqi, and International law.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a lynching.

I wish Justice on Saddam, not this vigilantism.

The Iraqis were not liberated, they were invaded, occupied, and have had a puppet government imposed.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Proof of no WMDs?
Proof is in the eye of the beholder, despite what Congressional and Senate panels or sub-committees might say or report.

Was there legitimate proof of Iraqi WMDs during the Clinton Administration's Era, when they continued to insist that Saddam was building a nuclear program and WMDs?
Was there legitimate proof of Iraqi WMDs when many nations, and their respective intelligence services, within the international community cited and documented that Saddam was building a nuclear program, along with WMDs?

ArchAngel, are you absolutely certain that there is no proof?
Are you absolutely sure that those alleged and internationally documented WMDs were not moved out from Iraq?
Are you absolutely sure that they were not destroyed or dispersed prior to the 2nd Iraq War?
Have you or the Coalition dug up every inch of Iraq, since of course, the vast majority of Iraq is sand, and Saddam, along with his generals, were notorious for burying anything and everything?

Proof belongs to those who discern it, because proof is not always in-hand, readily found and shown tangible evidence.

Imagine Saddam's WMDs as hamburger patties or hamburger meat, for the sake of humor.
Upon entering Saddam's house, we find:
A refrigerator
Plate of lettuce
Plate of cut tomatoes
Hamburger pickles in a pickle jar
Mayo
Ketchup
Cheese slices
Mustard
Hamburger buns
A charcoal grill
charcoal
lighter fluid
matches
a spatula
a fork
a knife
salt
pepper

Yet, we find no hamburger patties or hamburger meat, that would be cooked and served on the hamburger buns, along with the optional condiments and garnishments to be served.

Is this proof that Saddam was not going to make hamburgers at some point in time?
Some will say yes, while others will say no.
Again, proof is what?
Not finding the hamburger patties to make those hamburgers or because we did not find a steaming plate of already made hamburgers?
In the case of Saddam and his actual WMDs not being found, virtually all the components and ingredients thereof have been found, ArchAngel.
Is it because we have not found a warehouse with a sign saying, "Look! WMDs here," that there is no proof?
Is it because we have not found large quantities of those steaming plate of already made WMDs that there is no proof?

Anyhow, if there is no actual proof, then get in touch with a lawyer, and sue GWB for invasion of privacy and seizure of property.
For some reason, despite the those in the international community being outspoken against the actions taken in regards to Iraq, I have yet to see a few of them get together and present a case of such against GWB or the US before the UN.

The issue at had is that their were little to none found.
Does that constitute no proof or the absence of proof?
Again, I will assert that though large or sufficient quantities of WMDs have not been found, yet, that that does not necessarily mean there is no proof. As stated, proof was gathered and documented by a number of nations within the international community, over decades, and up to the 2nd war. France, Germany, and Russia, even the UN, had categorically stated that Saddam had a WMDs programs, as well as, a nuclear program.....at least up till talk of war with Iraq the second time had them backtracking.
I wonder why?
*cough* Oil-for-Food program.
Deniability is a wonderful tool, especially when there are hundreds of millions to billions involved....







seekerof



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Don't forget there was a cow in Saddam's kitchen too! He had all precursers for producing WMD. There is no doubt in my mind that Iraq was in posession of WMD. Unfortunately, our willingness to placate our European allies and the United Nations, as well as the wasted time of over 16 defied United Nations resolutions, gave Saddam more than enough time to hide his WMD in a country the size of California. There is also evidence that Russian Special Forces moved Iraq's stockpiles of WMD over the border and into Syria. Saddam Huessein was a madman and a tyrant, not to mention a heroin user. It's almost laughable how many of you are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and were willing to leave him in power indefinitely.



Please explain how Saddam was a fugative from Justice.


Certainly. The acting governing body in Iraq, the Coalition Provisional Authority, declared Saddam a wanted man for his crimes against the Iraqi people. President Bush initially gave Saddam and his children 48 hours to leave Iraq without having to face justice. That was a gift they were not worthy of receiving. He chose not to comply with those demands, and as such became a criminal under the laws of war. The acts that Saddam committed were illegal in any court in the entire world. The fact that he declared himself President of Iraq does not make him immune from prosecution for such crimes.



He was the legally, and constitionally elected leader of Iraq that was forced to flee in the face of an illegal invasion.


Constitutionally elected leader? Do you know anything about the history of Iraq? The Baath party took over in a coup! In time Saddam forced out Iraq's leader when he was second in command and declared himself President. Never was Saddam ever elected in a fair and legitimate election by the Iraqi people. Never were the Iraqi people offered a viable opponent, and given the opportunity to vote without fear of violence against them and their families. In fact, his very first act in office was a major crime in itself- one that is documented on video. In front of a large crowd of government officials, a supposed "informant" named all of those in the crowd whom he claimed were involved in acts of treason against the government. Those whom he named were removed by security officers and SHOT to death. The very idea that you would use the terms "legal" and "constitutionally elected" in the same sentence as Saddam Huessein is absurd, unless the words "was not" comes before them.

As for the invasion not being legal, thats a matter of opinion. I, and many others, believe that the last resolution, I believe it was #1641 but don't hold me to it, authorized the use of force if Saddam did not comply with it. He chose not to comply. Aside from that, Saddam's military was firing on Coalition jets patrolling the No-Fly Zone on a daily basis. That alone is an act of war. Saddam authorized the assassination of President George H.W. Bush. That alone is an act of war.

The man violated 16+ United Nations resolutions. At what point do we say enough is enough? At what point is the will of the free world going to be enforced? You can't ignore the fact that Saddam violated those UN resolutions, while at the same time giving legitimacy to the claims from the UN that the invasion of Iraq was illegal. You just can't have it both ways pal.

And could you please tell me what war was "legal" according to you? How about Saddam's invasion of Kuwait? How about Saddam's invasion of Iran? How about Saddam's Scud Missile attacks on Israel and Saudi Arabia? How can we be expected to play by the very same international laws that Saddam did so much to defy? How can those laws and resolutions ever mean anything more than the paper they were written on if no one is going to enforce them? What is the point of a resolution that isn't backed up? What's the point of a world body such as the UN when their will is ignored? That alone makes them obsolete.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Preach!
Please preach to us how affectively the international courts have been in brining Milosovich to justice.
What a joke!

And by the way didn’t we shave Saddam, give him a suit, dye his hair, and keep him nice and fed?
I’d say that pretty good treatment for a man who ranks behind Hitler and Stalin for mass murder in the last century.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 12:35 AM
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Amen, WestPoint23, my brother! Testify!!!!



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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Isn't it odd how when they found him, his hair was still dark but his beard was white?



What did he have time to die his hair but not shave his beard?

hi looks fake. His nose is too big.

[edit on 3-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 04:22 AM
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Any WMDs found in Iraq = 0.

Any reason to convict Saddam Hussein = 1.

Any reason to kill Iraqis fighting to resist INVADING forces = 0.

Using the laws of probability and mathematical deduction of the damn situation, I'd say the probability of the Iraq War being justified is 0, false or null theoretically.

Whether you like it or not, NO (active/capable) WMDs have been found, PERIOD. Accept the fact.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Saddam is treated humanely since his capture. Not that we would really know what goes on behind the closed door of the prison. Hell, since we cannot really prove WMDs doesn't exist like what some of you said, then we don't really know for sure if Saddam isn't hammered like a piece of meat behind the stage away from the public's eyes.

Last words, Saddam is still a human. He's on the corner now. You want to gang up and beat the living hell out of him by being disrespectful and vigilante? Go on. Count me out.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
I wish Justice on Saddam ...


Good! The Iraqis will have their say as far as what to do with him.
If it is JUSTICE .. they will put him in the center square and let the
families of those he murdered and raped have their day with him.
There won't be anything left to bury and his soul will be in hell.
That's JUSTICE.

As far as being brutalized in jail .... I wouldn't care if he was.
He wasn't... but I wouldn't care if he was. Just don't care.

[edit on 10/3/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Heartagram
Any WMDs found in Iraq = 0.

Any reason to convict Saddam Hussein = 1.

Any reason to kill Iraqis fighting to resist INVADING forces = 0.

Using the laws of probability and mathematical deduction of the damn situation, I'd say the probability of the Iraq War being justified is 0, false or null theoretically.

Whether you like it or not, NO (active/capable) WMDs have been found, PERIOD. Accept the fact.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Saddam is treated humanely since his capture. Not that we would really know what goes on behind the closed door of the prison. Hell, since we cannot really prove WMDs doesn't exist like what some of you said, then we don't really know for sure if Saddam isn't hammered like a piece of meat behind the stage away from the public's eyes.

Last words, Saddam is still a human. He's on the corner now. You want to gang up and beat the living hell out of him by being disrespectful and vigilante? Go on. Count me out.


Give me 6 months to hide items that can take less than a coke can of substance to kill an entire city and I bet I can. You really are so gullible to believe that Saddam willingly disposed of all his WMDs and became a good boy after 15 years of torture, assassination, rape and iron hand ditactorship. Do you think it was just the USA declaring he had WMDs? Hell no it wasn't, France, England, Germany and many other countries all had made statements in the past about Saddams activities. The only difference we are the only country that had the nerve to do anything about it, just like we always are. But I understand it's real easy to jump on the American is Satan bandwagon these days so go right ahead. And you call us sheep and brainwashed...pffft.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof


Imagine Saddam's WMDs as hamburger patties or hamburger meat, for the sake of humor.
Upon entering Saddam's house, we find:
A refrigerator
Plate of lettuce
Plate of cut tomatoes
Hamburger pickles in a pickle jar
Mayo
Ketchup
Cheese slices
Mustard
Hamburger buns
A charcoal grill
charcoal
lighter fluid
matches
a spatula
a fork
a knife
salt
pepper

Yet, we find no hamburger patties or hamburger meat, that would be cooked and served on the hamburger buns, along with the optional condiments and garnishments to be served.

Is this proof that Saddam was not going to make hamburgers at some point in time?




Actually I remember hearing thorugh numerous news sources at the time, that after entering Bagdad, large amounts of toxins were found in the Tigres River.

Anyone else remeber that?

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2003/04/06/wpois06.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/06/ixnewstop.html

[edit on 3-10-2005 by ferretman]

[edit on 3-10-2005 by ferretman]

[edit on 3-10-2005 by ferretman]



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Interseptor
I.



and look how they arrested Saddam very cruel this incredible even Saddam got the prisoner treatment from the US.



Are you from the US? If so have you seen Cops the TV show? HA, looks no different.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Interseptor
nd look how they arrested saddam very cruel this increadible

Are you kidding? That's cruel? How is it cruel???? You have a very low standard of what abuse is.

if you look at his hair its in a mess.

Well, excuse them for not combing his hair immedaitely and only giving him a barber after the medical and dental examiniations.

is this the right way they treaded saddam.

No, its wrong, he should be eviscerated. Or maybe they should have a bunch of soldiers gang rape his sister while he watches and then set his beard on fire and then kill him, like he did to the older Al-Sadr.


Clearly Saddam should be brought to the international court in the Hague

Why? They have no standing. Clearly the Iraqis should be able to try him.

And do you agree that it was right to go to war on a pack of lies on WMD issue?

Yes.


um gazz
I wonder what the outcome would have been if it had been the citizens of Iraq who found him first.

Or if he had captured any of US in a war (not that I am trying to make a claim that there was such a threat)..

archangel
Is that proof that Iraq had WMD?

I was going to say something about this, but honestly, there are so many threads on this, lets not have this thread self destruct by talking about it. I mean, if you want the thread closed, then by all means go ahead.

SS
Isn't it odd how when they found him, his hair was still dark but his beard was white?

What? No, that isn't odd.


hi looks fake. His nose is too big.


Yes, he's not really saddam, bin ladin isn't really bin ladin (at least when he's coppign to something bad), zarqawi doesn't exist, and there is no such thing as muslim terrorists, except the corrupted ones on the CIA bankroll. Now that we've got that outta the way, do you consider the stuff in the photos to be abusive or no?



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Rasputin13

There are lots of leaders in the world that have done much more worse then saddam, some live to see the day and some who got executed.

Ill give you an example Arial Sharon the Isreali primeminister he has made a million pelestines homeless and and killed thousands but in front of the political eyes of some powerfull counteries he has been seen as a hero, his views are zionistic.

what I showed you is nothing to do what Saddam did by the way I hate what he did to Kurds as well it is unjustifiable. but it is true he killed 300.000 in several decades.

But the war in Iraq has killed more then 100.000 civilians in a year is that justifiable no.

Saddam is just another figure who had the chance to grasp power and he did. It is similar to Stalin's story he had the chance to grasppower and he did as well.

IRAQ is it really free No it is not the war has made Iraq into Vietnam the south and a north in the south sunni's have hate and in the North shia's have hate and in the midile the american's have rage. the country has dialy violance and it cant be justified as terrorist there is a reason to all things that happen around the world, the suicide bombers are killing there self every day just to attact the collision troops.

And yes I do believe he should be brought to the proper court if it is not the Iraqi then it should be the international court why should a coutry that invades another country illegally prosecute that dictator now that is wrong.

[edit on 3-10-2005 by Interseptor]



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Interseptor
nd look how they arrested saddam very cruel this increadible

Are you kidding? That's cruel? How is it cruel???? You have a very low standard of what abuse is.

if you look at his hair its in a mess.

Well, excuse them for not combing his hair immedaitely and only giving him a barber after the medical and dental examiniations.

is this the right way they treaded saddam.

No, its wrong, he should be eviscerated. Or maybe they should have a bunch of soldiers gang rape his sister while he watches and then set his beard on fire and then kill him, like he did to the older Al-Sadr.


Clearly Saddam should be brought to the international court in the Hague

Why? They have no standing. Clearly the Iraqis should be able to try him.

And do you agree that it was right to go to war on a pack of lies on WMD issue?

Yes.


um gazz
I wonder what the outcome would have been if it had been the citizens of Iraq who found him first.

Or if he had captured any of US in a war (not that I am trying to make a claim that there was such a threat)..

archangel
Is that proof that Iraq had WMD?

I was going to say something about this, but honestly, there are so many threads on this, lets not have this thread self destruct by talking about it. I mean, if you want the thread closed, then by all means go ahead.

SS
Isn't it odd how when they found him, his hair was still dark but his beard was white?

What? No, that isn't odd.


hi looks fake. His nose is too big.


Yes, he's not really saddam, bin ladin isn't really bin ladin (at least when he's coppign to something bad), zarqawi doesn't exist, and there is no such thing as muslim terrorists, except the corrupted ones on the CIA bankroll. Now that we've got that outta the way, do you consider the stuff in the photos to be abusive or no?


Very negative comments by any chance are you one of those cannibals who eats another human for pleasure and huger.

well if you are you can go to war as well in Iraq with such brave comments I don't think your scared at seeing a dead body lying here and there, do ya,
Go serve your master Bush go kill some inocent people in Iraq and believe in that cr*p called Bin Laden/Al-Qeada really how can you not Al-Qeada network funded by the CIA and PIAD By the American Government it has been a effective tool in Bush politics.

Any thing else you wana clear out, btw you know by creating hate you get hate on your own door step, or in other words if you laugh at some one in pain in terms he will get the last laugh ONE DAY.




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