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High Explosives in Bullets

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posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Anyone happen to know if there is any specialized rifle or pistol ammo that uses a high explosive as propelant for the bullet instead of the conventional low explosives like gun powder?

I've been looking on Google and the only ammo I can find having high explosives as propelant are compact large caliber high mass cannon or artilery shells.

I'm mainly wondering how rifles or guns(and their shells) would react to the extreme force/pressure of high explosives.




posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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Very very badly probably. The pressure put out by the high explosives going off would put a lot more stress on the barrel and the bullet and casing. Cannons and artillery can be built stronger to withstand this pressure, where rifles can't be built quite as strongly or they'd be too heavy. Of course I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it would work too well. I know there are bullets that are explosive tipped somehow, but I don't think HE as a propellant would work well in a rifle.



posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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THEMATRIX : to the best of my knowledge NO artllery peice uses a HE propellant charge

as pointed out - the safe working pressure of any chamber is finite and in a long barrel [ 50 cal ] , a slower burning charge is better as , in an ideal situation the propelant should provide a continuous thrust . NOT a massive pressure spike , then notbing

for small arms - there are annecdotal stoies from wwii to present of ammo " spiked " with HE propellant being slipped into enemy caches



posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 09:19 PM
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Not that I'm aware of. The only "explosive" bullet I know of are hollowpoints. Then again, I don't know much about bullets so I'm probably wrong.



posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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To my limited knowlege High Explosives are not used in propelling a bullet. Modern bullets are propelled by progressive propellents. High explosives are put in the warheads of the projectiles being propelled by progressive propellents.
When you cut open the propellent of a 155mm artillery bag in most cases I have used..it is what we call green bag. The propellent actually looks like elbow macaroni with a light green tint. It actually looks like you can boil it and add the cheese later. However ...when you cut off a bag..there are five of them as I recall...the cut away bag is put for safety into a powder pit and before you move the gun you cut the powder pit bags apart , pour them out on the ground and light them off. They burn with a wall of fire about 8 to 10 feet tall....hot too.
Green bag was the less powerful of the two types ..white bag was more powerful and propelled the 155mm projectile further. The difference as I recall was between 11 miles for the green and 14 miles for the white bag. Its been awhile since I was on a gun crew but those are the numbers I recall. Someone else may remember better than I.
In rifles and handguns explosive is not used unless you are talking about reproduction black powder weapons
. Black powder is not High explosives but non the less it is a explosive and to be respected as such.
I reload modern rifles and pistols with progressive propellents and also shoot black powder. None the less these chemical compounds are to be respected in no matter what form you are handling them.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 1 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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High explosives are not used as a propellant because most rifles are gas operated, meaning that it is not the explosion of the propellant that provides the force, but the gas that the propellant produces as it burns.

A high explosive would be too quickly and efficiently expended to produce the gas necessary for propulsion of the projectile.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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A High Explosive is designed to produce an immediate over-pressure, a modern smokeless powder (modern firearms stopped using gunpowder in WW I) is designed to produce a far more moderate pressure curve that suits the particular firearm (and often bullet weight) in question.

Pistols tend to prefer faster burning powders becase barrel lengths are 5 inches or less, rifles can tolerate slightly slower burning powders by virtue of their increased barrel length.

Pistols with ultra short barrels tend to throw surprisingly large amounts of unburned powder down range. I vaguely recall an accident at one of the major firearms manufacturers last year, I think it was Ruger or Glock, where a tester was killed by an explosion in the plant's test range caused by the ignition of large amounts of downrange powder from pistols.

Orangetom is a member here who reloads, and those guys really know about this subject.



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 02:57 AM
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You posted:
"A High Explosive is designed to produce an immediate over-pressure, a modern smokeless powder (modern firearms stopped using gunpowder in WW I) is designed to produce a far more moderate pressure curve that suits the particular firearm (and often bullet weight) in question. "

Quite correct on the overpressurization. Couldnt have said it better. Well done.

also correct on the barrel lengths and powder burn as per barrel length.

There was a incident at our gun club years ago where someone was sweeping up their brass and dumping it in the waste brass bin while smoking. For some reason they got the bright idea to put thier cigarette out in the brass bin which just happened to have alot of unburned powder in the bottom of it. Whooooosssshhhh!!!! The guy got burned by the wall of flame...fortunate for us no one was hurt to badly ..and the club immediately put up no smoking signs. We were very lucky...could have been much worse.

Thanks for another great post,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Khaos
Not that I'm aware of. The only "explosive" bullet I know of are hollowpoints. Then again, I don't know much about bullets so I'm probably wrong.


Hollowpoints aren't explosive, they have hollow tips that cause them to spread open more easely on impact. Giving a whirlwind of scrapnell cutting trough flesh on impact opposed to other bullets that either keep their shape and go right trough or mushroom on impact.

Anyways, thanks for your opinions on HE use as bullet propelant. I got what I needed to know



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 09:24 AM
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I think everything needed to be said has been already, so I shall just state what may seem to be the obvious.
If high explosives were betted suited as propellant in current/past firearms it would already be in use.

Maybe some kind of single shot weapon with a thick (and therefore very heavy) barrel and chamber could be used but the disadvantages would outweigh any benefits.



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