Here is my understanding, now let’s get down to business:

I will make this short too,as the fish [piscean] darts quickly from all the Virgoans..LOL

If you do not ever remember or care about any of my opinions, remember this:

There is nothing so important or precious to the "other side' than a human soul.
Blessings to all.

Realrepublican,

While I agree with the basic premise that Egyptian religion is to this day the underlying factor of Abramic religions, there is after all much evidence to prove this to a large degree, I however note that you have been heavily influenced by the opinions and conclusions drawn by others which do not complement the evidentiary facts available to us, such that there is none that Atlantis was some advanced civilization; that Thoth and some flying craft associated with him is buried under the Sphinx; that the flood was a real worldwide event, the ark a capacitor, etc., that the ark in fact even existed in all its glory and supernatural splendour.

It could very well be so that the Freemasonry and Skull and Bones fraternities continue to believe in Egyptian theology or are unknowingly or unwillingly harbouring blasphemers, and if that is the case, it can be concluded that those hiding purposefully have gone underground to practice same because they either wish not to be persecuted and vilified by their past prosecutors who still today maintain somewhat of a hold on power, simply because their numbers are too small to have an impact; that the best method of raising awareness and hence the numbers is via recruitment into societies of secrets, or, that they themselves prefer to know the truth and control the masses by allowing false teachings to infiltrate and dominate global society. From a purely realistic point then, if they truly believe that they while in the shadows of their private halls, must hold fast to the truth about God, in this case Seth, they would also understand that to practice righteousness part-time and deceit and manipulation the rest of the time, will not fool the gods Seth has never been able to defeat, nor is able to defeat. So it is either that they do so while deceiving themselves they still hold a place in God’s heart even though they manipulate man by power; that what they believe and what they manipulate is sanctioned by god, or that they actually do believe and do not manipulate man.

Regarding your position on Egyptian monotheism, there is no extant evidence that suggests Egypt ever possessed a monotheistic religion outside of Atenism, it cannot be concluded then that any attempt was made to “bring the people back to the one true God of the Children of the Law….” What it did hold was that there was only one creator god even though the name and role was often synchronized and subsuming of other state deities according to which cult centre governed Egypt. Hence the creation myths attributed to Atum; Khnum; Ra. These three along with Amun, after whom it is believed Zeus was fashioned, then Jupiter and so forth, were perceived to be the king of the gods, the head god, the god to which all others must answer, including the siblings Osiris, Isis, Seth and Nephtys, accounting for the multiplicity as you state. The latter four and all other demi-gods were allowed to manifest themselves as human and roam the earth performing their assigned godly duties of protecting earth and carrying for their subjects; humans. Yet there was one creator god, Ptah, himself associated with a triad, who removed himself from any governance of his creations. All of the other gods, including the various creator gods while preserving a polytheistic aspect, formed a whole necessary to align the forces of order and chaos and the continuance of existence, including their own. They were just later wrapped up and assimilated as one in the name of monotheism, just as the Egyptian deities were earlier subsumed.

There is no proof either of any plot to kill Akenaten. All that is known and released anyway, is that Amarna was the seat of his kingship, and was abandoned 17-20 years later.

The worship of Seth began long before 100BCE. He was prominent as early as 4,000 BCE, tomb H29 at el-Mahasma attesting to this, was later overshadowed by Horus, gained prominence again during the 19th and 20th dynasties, until the 9th century when it became rather gauche to exalt his memory.

You hold several other misconceptions I would like to clear up:

There is nothing to link Atenism to the Essenes.

You are confusing resurrection with reincarnation. If the coffin ritual is symbolic of Egyptian myth, it is resurrection as it involved the reuniting of the Ka, with the physical body which was necessary to live in the underworld, and in the case of the pharaohs, as a god.

Judaism was a construct by virtue of the belief in the god of Israel, that that god guided, defended and cared only for the bloodline of Israel and that observance of god’s laws as outlined in the Torah, was regardless of sectarian differences, their underlying constitution. That Jesus was portrayed as a Jew, practicing at that, is undeniable, just as the Essenes were Jews, demanding the return to and the strictest observance of the literal laws of Moses, as represented by the Sons of Judah, Levi, Benjamin and made manifest only to Israel (CD XV 9,10). They expected that at the end the enemy would fall to the “God of Israel,” (1QM 1,10.) They held that God’s covenant belonged to all Israelites (1QS 11 21,22). The reason for their community was because they believed that the laws were made corrupt by those children of Israel whom they called traitors (CD 1 14), who followed the dogma of Belial and led the flock astray(1QS 1 21,24), And that they and they alone represented the true Israel; could interpret the laws of Moses (CD 1 5:10), as was meant and therefore were God’s elect to administer same as the sons of Zadok, of Aaron, unto all men born of Israel who were willing to return to the ways of righteousness (1QS VI 14). In essence, they were denying that the other sects were by the book Jews. This similarity shared with Jesus of the gospel does not make Jesus an essene.

That Jesus was an Essene as we know them from the historical references and the DSS, does not ring true. If anything at all it is that the gospel writers and late first and second century Christians fashioned his teachings and theirs after the Essenes, from whatever knowledge of their teachings and customs survived after their supposed massacre and interspersed with their own interpretations of scripture and indoctrination of Egyptian, Hellenestic and Roman myth/theology, followed by the usual course of revising that which they liked, did not like, and did not understand.

This is evidenced by the differences and commonalities between early Christians and Essenes, where:

- Essene belief in a messiah(s) (of Israel and of Aaron) was kept to someone instituting but not responsible for the defeat in the final war against the nations of the Kittim, the host of Belial, where Belial is identified as “the children of Seth” (War Scroll and NU 24:17) and where the army was in fact the Essenes, God’s own implement of defeat for Belial. Their vision was that God would cleanse the earth so that all who remained were of the Essene sect, (WS) and not an annihilation of all humans with the creation of a new Jerusalem as does the Christian testament advance.

-They wanted no part of the blind, lame, maimed or deaf. (XV 15)
-They reinforced the law of circumcision (4Q 266 ii 1)
-The sabbath was strictly adhered to (CD x 15,20)


But there are similarities such as: the requirement that a priest of the congregation attain the age of 30 (CD xiv 6,9)
-A lower hierarchy consisted of 12 men, however with 3 priests at their head. (1QS viii 4)
-The study of the law in the wilderness by all who meet eligibility for continued communing. (1QS viii 6,10)
-It was the requirement of the priest to extend his hands and bless the wine and bread before meals (1QS vi 4,5)
-Not to rebuke or argue with “men of the pit” and not to council anyone outside of the community on their knowledge, righteousness and teachings of the laws. (1QS ix 16,17)

-Relinquish all possessions to the community, (1QS vi 19,20)albeit failure to do so incurs penance not death as with Acts and Ananias and his wife.

The Essenes contrary to what is stated did in fact share a like belief that God was cruel, if cruelty in the OT is to be used a yardstick for Essene philosophy , as evidenced by many documents, the Essenes were as spiteful, i.e. they invoke everlasting fire to all others, curse non-Essenes that God would show no mercy for their sins or grant pardon or peace (1QS iv 10,14 & 1QS xi 5,10), and ultimately, God would head their army as he did many times previously to utterly destroy once and for all his enemies (WS).

It's all well and good that you make such a statement, but the fact remains that there are several religions that believe that there are in fact two "Absolute Beings," the most well-known probably being Zoroastrianism.

So we now have those Zoroastrianism’s who believe in 2 supreme beings. I thought they were monotheistic but believed in both God and Satan; similar to Christians or other monotheistic religions. Do they really see 2 Supreme Gods as being separate and independent of one another in Absolute Self-Sufficiency?

Except that the Essenes were a sect of Judaism.

I wrote how Jesus was not a Jew based upon his understanding in the God of love and mercy (as the Essenes were Israelites, just like their Jewish brethren were) but why does this add or detract from what I wrote?

I confess I've just been skimming most of the posts in this thread, since they're long and don't seem to make all that much sense to someone like me who isn't much into attempting to link together hundreds of disparate ideas into strange conspiracy theories ranging back thousands of years………….

I cannot say I know everything regarding the Conspiracy theories but what I say about God – well I leave it to you to decide for yourself Lexicon.

While I agree with the basic premise that Egyptian religion is to this day the underlying factor of Abramic religions, there is after all much evidence to prove this to a large degree, I however note that you have been heavily influenced by the opinions and conclusions drawn by others which do not complement the evidentiary facts available to us, such that there is none that Atlantis was some advanced civilization; that Thoth and some flying craft associated with him is buried under the Sphinx; that the flood was a real worldwide event, the ark a capacitor, etc., that the ark in fact even existed in all its glory and supernatural splendour.

I do appreciate that much scientific evidence has yet to surface. However, I have read much on Atlantian history and I know there is evidence to support that they were in fact, highly advanced people technologically and spiritually. Take a close look at the Blue Hole of Belize. Was it caused by the Son’s of Belial drilling concentrated laser-like energy beams deep into the Earth’s core? As for the capacitor or “Ark of the Covenant” ever wonder why the myths show lightening passing out of it? The Great Pyramid itself was a power generator and these generators were collecting energy from the Earth’s aura (or rather from the electromagnetic field). This field makes a Compass point to the North and if you tap into that energy source via a giant custom created quartz crystal and copper capstones, you channel that energy into a device (or a capacitor) which will provide a total wireless transmission of power to all facilities and mobile vehicles. This is similar to the work of Nicola Tesla but not the same however. If you study “dark matter” (as I have before), you will discover that it was in the 1970’s that scientists discovered “ether”, or some call it also “anti-matter” and it’s a shame they stopped researching it.

As for who built the Pyramids what proof has modern science come up with to explain how workers over many, many years, could build these for use as tombs, when we know that the Pyramids were never originally used as tombs anyhow? If this be the case, then what slave would build them – it seems science has made some unfounded assumptions and acting un-scientific is common when politics enters into the arena. These great structures were in built by Thoth and with the help of the airship. As for the flood of Noah’s day: you might not yet realize that the Turkish peoples have pilgrimage to the remains of Noah’s Ark, as it now still rests in Turkey, for thousands of years. I think you will find this great reading material.

In Edward Griffins book the Discovery of Noah’s Ark:

“In Turkey 17 miles from Mt. Ararat on a gentle slope at the 6000-foot elevation. It is a man-made object and was clearly designed as a boat. It incorporates principles of higher mathematics and advanced hydrodynamics. It contains decks and interior chambers. It is the proper dimension for the Ark. It is in the proper geographical location. It is accompanied by large, anchor stones of an appropriate size. It has been visited by religious pilgrims for thousands of years. It is consistent with the Bible, the Torah, and the ancient clay tablets from Sumer. And it is surrounded by mountains and villages which carry names from antiquity relating to the Ark’s landing.”

So how did the boat get up on a mountain? Was it wind and rain, or a massive flood caused by a pole shift? Why are there salt deposits and deep sea fossils (dating 10,000 BC) in the desert which can only mean an ocean covered it and thus that land that was once submerged is now above sea level and vice-versa? Of course the study of science is limited to only the material world. I know and have seen phenomena which cannot be explained by any science that fails to take into account the study of God, which is the simply study of all sciences and is not limited to only a tiny little laboratory.

Also study the masonry of the earliest periods and you will find that the limestone and other (hard to construct materials) was used to build. But as tiem progressed, the masonry became softer and more primitive due to a decrease in technology over time. Imagine a catastrophy forcing the North American Continent and much of the world centers into the Sea? How long would it take before our children and their children's children speak of this place of America, as a myth and how long can a car or building of metal last under sea water?

It could very well be so that the Freemasonry and Skull and Bones fraternities continue to believe in Egyptian theology or are unknowingly or unwillingly harbouring blasphemers................", "... will not fool the gods Seth has never been able to defeat, nor is able to defeat. So it is either that they do so while deceiving themselves they still hold a place in God’s heart even though they manipulate man by power; that what they believe and what they manipulate is sanctioned by god, or that they actually do believe and do not manipulate man".

What of the 3 options must we chose? For when a man does evil to another, he usually thinks he has done something righteous, just as in the meetings of the CFR, do they speak as they are evil men who will bring terror upon us all, or might they instead speak of themselves as righteous and wonderful men who would bring upon a New World Order, ruled by brilliant Elites who know what is best? When Bush calls for a war on Terror and yet also funds it at the same time, what does he believe is right or wrong in his heart, in the eyes of his God/Goddess whatever that might be? Socrates was executed for revealing too much, to the uninitiated or to those who were not supposed to know the secrets. Amon-Ra Priests murdered those Atonists and re-wrote history to conceal the truth that Akhenaton IV wanted to free the people from despotism, ignorance and slavery over a false and cruel doctrine and replace it with a God of love and mercy. Should your point be whether these people are Satanists and do evil, or so-called Christians and do evil, or Amon-Ra worshipers and do evil – really matters not, then I also have to agree. Sadly, unless we can show the world that Bush is not a Christian, we may never have much to write home about – now consider why I started this thread with Amon-Ra asking for human sacrifice unless it was to grab attention and get a proper discussion going?

Regarding your position on Egyptian monotheism, there is no extant evidence that suggests Egypt ever possessed a monotheistic religion outside of Atenism, it cannot be concluded then that any attempt was made to “bring the people back to the one true God of the Children of the Law….....”

The word Aton means "incomprehensible", and if you study the ancient civilizations you will notice in the history of the 'Aztecs, the Incas, and the Hindus, the same truth was known. Egyptian history is not based in classical Egypt only but in also much of the surrounding regions. The Egyptians are not to be all bunched together as people who practiced mummification or those who always had many Gods and then later just bunched them all together into one big one. Ancient Egyptians adored certain animals as gods like God Anubis also. Did they bunch these animal Gods together also and just accept Monotheism?

Thoth was to Jesus, as Osiris was to Our Father, as Isis is to the Holy Spirit. What do Christians call that other than Monotheism today? I will tell you that the followers of Amon-Ra also worshiped one father God RA but they misunderstood what is “multiplicity”. Their understanding is the key difference, not whatever history book you get the word from. Multiplicity means ONE, yet many – yet not a multiple! In multiplicity there is nothing removed that is separate from the total all-knowing what itself. Separateness is not Reality, but an illusion but it does temporarily exist. But the lack of KNOWING what we ARE is the separateness itself combined with our free will.

To say there is no darkness without light is wrong, for can you measure dark? To say there is no heat without cold is wrong, for can you also measure cold? What you can measure is only the lack of light, the lack of heat, or lack of LOVE; do you understand what I am saying? Those who call themselves Manicheans or Monotheists or Polytheists matters not, in light of the understanding that darkness is an illusion. Thus Set must be inferior to Osiris, unless ONE with Osiris - and Set will be coming home to Osiris sooner or later!

But since Set murders Osiris (making him a brother to Set also) some imply this to mean that SET is equal to Osisirs!! Some sects misunderstood and believed there to be a God of Evil (Set) and a God of Love (Osiris) and they began to seperate the two and gave these Gods human vices.

Any cult that says they must practice evil to also have Love are simply wrong in their understanding of what God is. Love does not need evil but rather evil needs love. Evil does not exist in the higher planes of existence – as pure love and reason do not allow any evil to exist, for evil is simply a lack of reason or lack of God. Those who believe that one does all good and one must try to balance this good out by doing such and such and such, are foolish! Those cults I worry about today.

The archangels created the universes and the fallen ones decide to claim it as their own and they are thieves and robbers who have no claim to that. They rejected God, not the other way and as such they have lost the ability to create. But we people can create! As Jesus said you will do as I do and even more! Thus evil is allowed only temporally to strengthen us so that we may destroy the egoism and return to what we are already now – that of Gods.

There is no proof either of any plot to kill Akhenaton. All that is known and released anyway, is that Amarna was the seat of his kingship, and was abandoned 17-20 years later.

The worship of Seth began long before 100BCE. He was prominent as early as 4,000 BCE, tomb H29 at el-Mahasma attesting to this, was later overshadowed by Horus, gained prominence again during the 19th and 20th dynasties, until the 9th century when it became rather gauche to exalt his memory.

Actually it was not just the Amon-Ra followers but also the followers of the other Gods who killed both; Khor Aton, and Akhenaton. They stabbed Khor Aton in Apts Palace were the old Tree of Life was to be seen on the walls and then they poisoned Akhenaton also. This is politics as always and those people wanted to remain the rulers over the people. Such is always the price those Greats pay when revealing the truth.

There is nothing to link Atenism to the Essenes.

You are confusing resurrection with reincarnation. If the coffin ritual is symbolic of Egyptian myth, it is resurrection as it involved the reuniting of the Ka, with the physical body which was necessary to live in the underworld, and in the case of the pharaohs, as a god.

I confuse nothing of the sort – you assume too much. Resurrection means to awaken into what is in thy true divine nature and a calling back home from where we always were and always shall be. Reincarnation is the dead in judgment and a return to earth to eventually fulfill that coming resurrection through Karma. Our divine nature is to return home, as no soul is forever lost. If anything, it is S&B'ners who misunderstand and perhaps my fault is assuming they do not.

"Judaism was a construct by virtue of the belief in the god of Israel, that that god guided, defended and cared only for the bloodline of Israel and that observance of god’s laws as outlined in the Torah, was regardless of sectarian differences, their underlying constitution......" "...... This similarity shared with Jesus of the gospel does not make Jesus an essene.."

I have known vegetarians who will eat a little meat on Sunday to show respect for a typical Greek holiday, as they were to be a part of the community and culture. Does this mean this person was a Greek and was a big meat eater also? What you will find with anything you are reading is that it matters not what clothes or culture but what's in the heart. Jesus never came to overwrite the laws of Moses, but to fulfill them with his gentle persuasions. Thus if the "eye for an eye" law which was meant to be "Reap what you Sow" is so different than what makes one believe that Jesus was to complete the laws? Is it possible that he as an Essene, also understood that the "Jehovah of Moses", of the Jews, was same "Jehovah of Moses" of the Essenes, yet those Israelites Essene saw Jehovah as Aton-ai and not the cruel Jehovah?

I know there wasn't 2 Gods – one for Essene Nazarenes and one for Israelites but a simple matter of knowing the truth or not.

When Moses went up the mountain and retrieved the two tablets with the 10 Commandments written on them, what was this event referring to in Old Testament? This is an allegorical understanding, as the 2 tablets represent the 2 sides of the human brain and thus God’s laws were to be directly inscribed into the hearts and minds of men. When Moses came down from his retreat, he saw some men still worshiping graven images and Moses killed them. Again, what does this really mean? Does it make much sense thy way the Bible says a man who had an incredible experience would all of a sudden use anger to kill another? Moses killed no-one but what he did achieve was to destroy his own personal egoism. How many Jews or even Christian’s know this today, let alone during the time of Moses? Is the Torah perfect and has it not undergone some alteration and corruption? The Essenes were indistinguishable from the other Israelites, other than their belief in a God of love and Mercy. It is that simple and if you search you will find that Hanna and Joachim were also Essenes who were highly respected by certain Egyptians. Many of the Egyptian Scribes and Pharisees were Essenes and that’s why the Sanhedrin authorities were cautions not to speak above their breath regarding that hatred they had for the Essenes.

That Jesus was an Essene as we know them from the historical references and the DSS, does not ring true. If anything at all it is that the gospel writers and late first and second century Christians fashioned his teachings and theirs after the Essenes, from whatever knowledge of their teachings and customs survived after their supposed massacre and interspersed with their own interpretations of scripture and indoctrination of Egyptian, Hellenestic and Roman myth/theology, followed by the usual course of revising that which they liked, did not like, and did not understand.

Joshua Emmanuel the Christ was an Essene or Nazarene Prince and we call him “Jesus of Nazareth” also. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm this also.

The Essenes contrary to what is stated did in fact share a like belief that God was cruel, if cruelty in the OT is to be used a yardstick for Essene philosophy , as evidenced by many documents, the Essenes were as spiteful, i.e. they invoke everlasting fire to all others, curse non-Essenes that God would show no mercy for their sins or grant pardon or peace (1QS iv 10,14 & 1QS xi 5,10), and ultimately, God would head their army as he did many times previously to utterly destroy once and for all his enemies (WS)

When St. John the Baptist revised the Tree of Life he gave the greatest teachings to the Essenes to keep safe and not to the Church, why? Do you have any idea where this secret is now kept and which group may still have it? They called the one spirit God, the God of heavens and the earth, the gods of everlasting life, love and Mercy, “Aton-aie”. Are you still sure they are not direct descendants of the Aton-ists?




[edit on 5-10-2005 by realrepublican]

If you do not ever remember or care about any of my opinions, remember this:

There is nothing so important or precious to the "other side' than a human soul.
Blessings to all.

Our brothers await for our return....and even for a micro-brained, potato-head like Osama-Bin-Bush's return home.. They must really love us people

Best
RR

Originally posted by realrepublican
So we now have those Zoroastrianism’s who believe in 2 supreme beings. I thought they were monotheistic but believed in both God and Satan; similar to Christians or other monotheistic religions. Do they really see 2 Supreme Gods as being separate and independent of one another in Absolute Self-Sufficiency?

They do. Equally opposing powers. Not a god who created a devil.

I wrote how Jesus was not a Jew based upon his understanding in the God of love and mercy (as the Essenes were Israelites, just like their Jewish brethren were) but why does this add or detract from what I wrote?

Essenes were Jews, not Israelites who were 'related' to Jews, they were one of several sects in Judaism. And Jesus was a Jew. Period. Incorrect statements of fact always detract from what's being said.

Originally posted by realrepublican
I do appreciate that much scientific evidence has yet to surface. However, I have read much on Atlantian history and I know there is evidence to support that they were in fact, highly advanced people technologically and spiritually.

There’s nothing to support it. All that there is on Atlantis is one story from Plato that was added to or expanded on by others.

Take a close look at the Blue Hole of Belize. Was it caused by the Son’s of Belial drilling concentrated laser-like energy beams deep into the Earth’s core?

It’s called a sinkhole. We have them all over the world. It also goes down just 400 feet—not even the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the way to the Earth’s core.

As for the capacitor or “Ark of the Covenant” ever wonder why the myths show lightening passing out of it?

Artistic licence? The light of God?

The Great Pyramid itself was a power generator and these generators were collecting energy from the Earth’s aura (or rather from the electromagnetic field). This field makes a Compass point to the North and if you tap into that energy source via a giant custom created quartz crystal and copper capstones, you channel that energy into a device (or a capacitor) which will provide a total wireless transmission of power to all facilities and mobile vehicles.

So some massively advanced civilization walked the Earth and all they left were stone buildings? Where are, I dunno, the plastics, the fibre optics, the computer remnants? Why would anyone disguise a huge power plant as a tomb of a pharaoh? Why disguise it, period?

If you study “dark matter” (as I have before), you will discover that it was in the 1970’s that scientists discovered “ether”, or some call it also “anti-matter” and it’s a shame they stopped researching it.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. The aether was an old concept from when it was believed that electromagnetic waves had to have a medium to travel through. We found out later that they can travel through a vacuum. Dark matter and anti-matter are entirely different concepts. Anti-matter is matter with opposite charges. Anti-protons and positrons (anti-electrons) are the most common anti-particles. They absolutely exist, and just like in Star Trek, when matter and anti-matter collides it goes ‘boom’. Dark matter is matter which makes up the majority of the mass of the universe, but which isn’t ‘visible’ in the same way that ‘regular’ matter is. Various theories exists for what this dark matter is, ranging from neutrinos (it is not yet known whether neutrinos have mass), to massive numbers of brown dwarfs, to exotic and as yet undiscovered particles. Nobody has stopped researching anti-matter or dark matter. On the contrary, dark matter research is one of the most active areas of cosmology (and anti-matter is understood as well as regular matter, since it is essentially the exact same stuff but with opposite charges).

As for who built the Pyramids what proof has modern science come up with to explain how workers over many, many years, could build these for use as tombs, when we know that the Pyramids were never originally used as tombs anyhow? If this be the case, then what slave would build them – it seems science has made some unfounded assumptions and acting un-scientific is common when politics enters into the arena.

It is known that the Egyptian pyramids were not made by slaves at all, but by a paid workforce of many labourers. We do in fact know how the pyramids were made—with much care and over many years by a large workforce. And they were, in fact, made as tombs for the pharaohs.

“In Turkey 17 miles from Mt. Ararat on a gentle slope at the 6000-foot elevation. It is a man-made object and was clearly designed as a boat. It incorporates principles of higher mathematics and advanced hydrodynamics. It contains decks and interior chambers. It is the proper dimension for the Ark. It is in the proper geographical location. It is accompanied by large, anchor stones of an appropriate size. It has been visited by religious pilgrims for thousands of years. It is consistent with the Bible, the Torah, and the ancient clay tablets from Sumer. And it is surrounded by mountains and villages which carry names from antiquity relating to the Ark’s landing.”

Picture, please. And evidence how any boat could possibly hold the huge number of species of life (variously estimated from 2 to 100 million) in the numbers required (far greater than two of each species) needed to repopulate the world. Also, scientific evidence in the archaeological record of a worldwide flood, please.

Why are there salt deposits and deep sea fossils (dating 10,000 BC) in the desert which can only mean an ocean covered it and thus that land that was once submerged is now above sea level and vice-versa?

Specific references, please, so that I may look it up and give you the scientific explanation for the actual region you are talking about (and not a general answer to a general statement). There have been major changes in coastlines over the history of the Earth. And during the ice ages significant parts of the ocean floor were exposed (see, for example, the Bering land bridge).


[edit on 5-10-2005 by Lexicon]

They do. Equally opposing powers. Not a god who created a devil.

So they believe that “evil” is equal and all powerful to the father of love. Do they believe that an Angel has a sex also? Like say God being split in to positive and counter-positive sexes - opposing yet atttracted to each other?

Or is evil only a concept existing temporary in the worlds of separateness, and doesn’t exist on a level of pure reason?

Since evil is considered devoid of light, then light is the victor. Evil is like something dirty or that of an unclean, ignorant and muddy personality – devoid of light. So what happens when you pass the pure cleansing fire of the archangel Raphael through mud? Does not the sand fall to the ground (sand of Lucifer) and the water evaporate (as Gabriel)? So we now have 3 elements of the cross: water, fire and matter. Now what happened to the evil or the mud?

Where did the illusion go to, Lexicon?

The 4’Th element is ether. We breathe in ether with the air, and when you exhale, the air goes and but ether will remain inside you. That is why many people practice breathing, it is mosy important to study this.

On the Christian cross we see ether as being on the top portion, pointing upward. Ether is simply vibrating at a much higher frequency than matter and that is dark matter, or scientists' basic understanding of it anyhow.

Essenes were Jews, not Israelites who were 'related' to Jews, they were one of several sects in Judaism. And Jesus was a Jew. Period. Incorrect statements of fact always detract from what's being said.

How are they Jews in faith and are Christians also Jews because they share similar habits to Jews and live together?

There’s nothing to support it. All that there is on Atlantis is one story from Plato that was added to or expanded on by others.

Was Plato borrowing the myth from those who came before him, or did he understanding something else that many at the time could not?

It’s called a sinkhole. We have them all over the world. It also goes down just 400 feet—not even the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the way to the Earth’s core.

Is that what they call it now - a sink hole after 10's of thousands of years?

So some massively advanced civilization walked the Earth and all they left were stone buildings? Where are, I dunno, the plastics, the fibre optics, the computer remnants? Why would anyone disguise a huge power plant as a tomb of a pharaoh? Why disguise it, period?

Did you study the remains of the Titanic after it sat beneath the sea for a mere several decades? What do you think will happen to matter (wires/plastics) and such over 10 of thousands of years?

Regarding tomb - modern-day scientists make the assumption that they were originally built to be used as tombs, yes. They have made a big mistake, assuming so.

It is known that the Egyptian pyramids were not made by slaves at all, but by a paid workforce of many labourers. We do in fact know how the pyramids were made—with much care and over many years by a large workforce. And they were, in fact, made as tombs for the pharaohs.

Where is the scientific proof of this? What did they used to hoist up the large slabs of stone to the top of the pyramid? Was it a pulley of some sort? Do you know what the study of alchemy is?

Picture, please. And evidence how any boat could possibly hold the huge number of species of life (variously estimated from 2 to 100 million) in the numbers required (far greater than two of each species) needed to repopulate the world. Also, scientific evidence in the archaeological record of a worldwide flood, please.

You are not reading these books correctly if you continue to read everything literally, instead of understanding the allegorical parables. Go find out more about the very scientific video and book I told you about and you shall find what you are looking for – including pictures. Unless of course you want me to provide a picture from CBC News, which I'm sorry I cannot do?




[edit on 5-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Originally posted by Lexicon
So some massively advanced civilization walked the Earth and all they left were stone buildings?

Not quite. Some massively advanced civilization walked the Earth,but they left much more than just stone buildings. They left works of incredible geometry,inexplicably accurate astronomy that is only being confirmed today,and other signs of advanced technology. Ancient texts speak of exploding missles being used(complete with drawings that look like missles as we know them today) in wars and sites such as Mohenjo-Daro have been discovered revealing blast radii. Material at the center of the blast was fused together and crystalized,with brick walls in front of the blast literally melted. Skeletons found were all discovered face down,impressed into the ground.

Take a close look at the Blue Hole of Belize. Was it caused by the Son’s of Belial drilling concentrated laser-like energy beams deep into the Earth’s core?

It’s called a sinkhole. We have them all over the world. It also goes down just 400 feet—not even the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the tiniest bit of the way to the Earth’s core.

Perhaps. Though interestingly enough,there are ancient illustrations of boring into the Earth being done. In the illustration,a borer is depicted going into the ground with waves of energy eminating either from him or the device he's using. People are depicted on each side of him holding some kind of shield guard in front of them to protect themselves from this energy,whatever it was supposed to have been.

It is known that the Egyptian pyramids were not made by slaves at all, but by a paid workforce of many labourers. We do in fact know how the pyramids were made—with much care and over many years by a large workforce. And they were, in fact, made as tombs for the pharaohs.

I'd have to agree with realrepublican here. Much of what we "know" about the pyramids is merely assumption. There's alot we don't know about the hows,whys,and whens the pyramids were made. There is more to the pyramids than meet the eye,such as their full purpose,what kind of tools made such perfect cuts and placement,and why some pyramids have archeological signs of being thousands of years older than any known civilizations around it.


[edit on 5-10-2005 by Loungerist]

realrepublican,
Okay, as for your wild ramblings about the three elements and a fourth of ether I don’t know what to say. I don’t believe that much of what is written of in the Bible is literal, and don’t believe in angels, devils, and all that jazz. I also know that the idea of four elements (wind, water, earth, and fire) is a pretty old concept and modern science has shown what things really are made up of, and there are a heck of a lot more elements than four.

As for questions about what Zoroastrians believe, sorry, you’ll have to ask one yourself.

As for the question of whether Christians are also Jews, I think the answer is clear—the original Christians thought of themselves as a sect of Judaism, and were therefore Jews. As they grew further and further from Judaism, they ceased to be followers of Judaism. The Essenes were one of many sects of Judaism, they were not so far from other sects as Christians are from Jews.

As for Plato’s writings about Atlantis, it is possible that they were based on stories, such as that of the destruction of Thera by a massive volcanic explosion—but Thera was no advanced civilization, that's for sure.

The Great Blue Hole: Yes, it is a sinkhole. Lots of things last thousands of years. Also, as I mentioned, it’s 400 feet deep. The centre of the Earth is 6000 kilometres down. Whoever was laser-drilling down to the Earth’s core, I guess they were pretty bad at it. Explain the uselessness of this laser-drilled hole, please. This is what National Geographic says about the Great Blue Hole:

The hole is the opening to what was a dry cave system during the Ice Age. When the ice melted and the sea level rose, the caves were flooded, creating what is now a magnet for intrepid divers.

The pyramids are not a ship at the bottom of the Grand Banks. If the pyramids at Giza were some crazy advanced technology, you’d think that inside, protected from the elements, there would be some kind of evidence of that. What is there? Stone, stone, and more stone. I don’t know if you know this, but plastic is pretty damn resistant. Especially kept in a building, as it basically would be in a pyramid. You’d also think that some kind of metal would be involved in something as electricity-related as a power-plant. Maybe a big load-carrying wire? A pipe or two to carry whatever crazy stuff these super-advanced people had? All this would be very well-preserved in a pyramid (see non-looted Egyptian tombs for evidence). The cold hard facts of the matter is that if there were great advanced civilizations out there before us, they would have left something more than just stone and people like you who reject the scientific view of things. Now, don’t get me wrong, the Egyptians were quite advanced in geometry and astronomy and the like—but was that knowledge anything greater than was expected? No.

I know what alchemy is, it was a colossal failure of a scientific endeavour, shown to be basically impossible by our understanding of chemistry (although, in technicality, nuclear physics allows the transmutation of elements, but it costs an incredible amount more than it could give you). As for how the pyramids were built, why not check out one of the hundreds of websites that show how it was done? Your belief that the scientific community thinks that the pyramids were built by slaves just goes to show how little you know about what the scientific community actually thinks—probably because you’ve never read a single scholarly scientific work in your life and get all your ‘facts’ from the writers of pseudoscience. Let me give you a few sites I found from a simple Google search--there are hundreds more when you're through with these. Maybe one day soon I’ll check out my university’s library to see if we have any good books or journal articles for you.

www.bbc.co.uk...
www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us...
www.unmuseum.org...

As for Noah’s Ark: I don’t need pictures from the CBC, just a credible website. I’ve read numerous sites about the Ark, myself--most relate to rock formations on Mt. Ararat, which, interestingly enough, are not unique--there are other formations just like the ones claimed to be Noah’s Ark, but those ones are of sizes different to the biblical description, so the pro-Ark folks kind of pretend those ones don’t exist.



[edit on 5-10-2005 by Lexicon]

Originally posted by realrepublican
You are not reading these books correctly if you continue to read everything literally, instead of understanding the allegorical parables.

Oh no, I do read them correctly, which is why I do not believe that such a thing as Noah's Ark existed. Allegory, as you say.

Originally posted by realrepublican
In Edward Griffins book the Discovery of Noah’s Ark:

“In Turkey 17 miles from Mt. Ararat on a gentle slope at the 6000-foot elevation. It is a man-made object and was clearly designed as a boat. It incorporates principles of higher mathematics and advanced hydrodynamics. It contains decks and interior chambers. It is the proper dimension for the Ark. It is in the proper geographical location. It is accompanied by large, anchor stones of an appropriate size. It has been visited by religious pilgrims for thousands of years. It is consistent with the Bible, the Torah, and the ancient clay tablets from Sumer. And it is surrounded by mountains and villages which carry names from antiquity relating to the Ark’s landing.”

This book doesn't exist. You're talking about a 'documentary' called this, narrated by G. Edward Griffin. It is based on a book called "The Ark of Noah" by David Fasold. David Fasold's claims have been thoroughly debunked by science. See this link for the scientific argument.

My intention in coming here was to share and engage in discussion over what kind of corruption might be going on in the world today and to hopefully get some feedback from those who have also researched. I am now reading a book by Robert Gaylon Ross Sr. called “The Elite Don’t Dare Let Us Tell the People.” This book mentions much on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, as Mr. Ross is a meticulous researcher of history.

Now one good way to stay away from any “real” discussion is by distraction through entertaining certain non-progressive personalities. You know the correctors who never seem to see the bigger picture perhaps.
Some people, from their first through to their very last post, offer very little of progressiveness and sharing and only seem to present themselves as a "corrector" of error and perhaps think of themselves as an open-minded seeker of truth also? Well, I'm not going to judge anyone but I just hope these individuals understand clearly the difference between a true progressive and a non-progressive personality. In case some of you noticed, I made mention that we are coming up to a time where knowing the true intention behind the action will pave the way into exposing those who wish to enslave or obstruct us vs. those who truly wish to evolve. How many of these people were also correcting the errors of Galileo and the Greats of yesterday?

One big stink I have with Masonry today is how they seem to be more interested in increasing the Masonic anti-conspiracy web page, rather than engage in active discussion over why they were indeed infiltrated by Khazarian’s and Gentiles and are now taking the heat.

Speaking of a possible Masonic recruit......

realrepublican,
Okay, as for your wild ramblings about the three elements and a fourth of ether I don’t know what to say. I don’t believe that much of what is written of in the Bible is literal, and don’t believe in angels, devils, and all that jazz. I also know that the idea of four elements (wind, water, earth, and fire) is a pretty old concept and modern science has shown what things really are made up of, and there are a heck of a lot more elements than four.

You are not supposed to believe; you are supposed to come to know. Blind faith is useless to those who know the truth. There are only 4 true elements; yet combinations of the 4 will appear to give you many more. Just like how light passes through a prism and gives us a rainbow of color can you come up with a new color that we have never seen as a combination of white light already?

As for questions about what Zoroastrians believe, sorry, you’ll have to ask one yourself.

As for the question of whether Christians are also Jews, I think the answer is clear—the original Christians thought of themselves as a sect of Judaism, and were therefore Jews. As they grew further and further from Judaism, they ceased to be followers of Judaism. The Essenes were one of many sects of Judaism, they were not so far from other sects as Christians are from Jews.

The Israelites were many people and among them were Galileans, Judeans, Samaritans and others. They spoke Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek. It is incorrect to label all the Essenes as only Judeans, as the Essenes were Greco-Israelites and they spoke Greek and Aramaic. The Essenes did not want to be separated from their Israelites brothers, thus they also accepted the cruel rule of the Sanhedrin. Why make such a fuss over this and what is your true intention by doing so, huh?

I know what alchemy is, it was a colossal failure of a scientific Endeavour, shown to be basically impossible by our understanding of chemistry (although, in technicality, nuclear physics allows the transmutation of elements, but it costs an incredible amount more than it could give you). As for how the pyramids were built, why not check out one of the hundreds of websites that show how it was done? Your belief that the scientific community thinks that the pyramids were built by slaves just goes to show how little you know about what the scientific community actually thinks—probably because you’ve never read a single scholarly scientific work in your life and get all your ‘facts’ from the writers of pseudoscience. Let me give you a few sites I found from a simple Google search--there are hundreds more when you're through with these. Maybe one day soon I’ll check out my university’s library to see if we have any good books or journal articles for you.

www.bbc.co.uk...
www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us...
www.unmuseum.org...

As for Noah’s Ark: I don’t need pictures from the CBC, just a credible website. I’ve read numerous sites about the Ark, myself--most relate to rock formations on Mt. Ararat, which, interestingly enough, are not unique--there are other formations just like the ones claimed to be Noah’s Ark, but those ones are of sizes different to the biblical description, so the pro-Ark folks kind of pretend those ones don’t exist.

Once again, instead you only seem interested in discrediting. Look at what people said about William Cooper - he was a brilliant man yet had a little alcholic problem and so many websites only focus on this negative! There was a documentary on TLC that claimed to have exposed the truth on Noah’s Ark. They showed wonderful satellite images of sites which supposedly are the resting place of the Ark. By the time the documentary was finished, they leave the viewer with a sense of complete confusion and make the whole issue into a “what if” kind of nonsense. I saw this as complete and utter disinformation and the photo images they showed were not even correct images of the real resting place of the Ark. Many of the websites are not providing the truth of the matter.

Now in the Bible, it often mentions for 40 days and nights, or 40 weeks, or 40 years. This applies to Moses’ retreat (40 years) and also to Noah’s Ark (40 days and 40 night) and to Jesus wondering in the desert (40 days and 40 nights) etc. Many researchers think that meaning of 40/40 is nonsense and thus none of the above events ever occurred. Now what does 40 days and 40 nights mean? Well, I understand the allegorical interpretation as symbolic of a period of gestation and growth, as how a baby remains in the mother’s womb for 40 weeks etc. At the time of Noah, a catastrophy occurred and is looked upon as a period of karmic judgement - and through that period, a gestation or growth.

You mentioned that you found much information by doing a search on google.ca, etc. Now although, it may be a wonderful companion resource, I would like you to know that I brought up Alchemy only to determine just how open you are to esoteric understandings. For if you cannot understand Alchemy why bother to discuss with you anything over a flying ship? I say it is not a colossal failure as I have personally seen lead changed into Gold and then back into lead again. Rest assured you should not believe a stranger, so I suggest you learn to do it yourself. It may only take you several lifetimes (with your current approach) but eventually by your attunement and improving of observation skills, you will be able to do it. Of course, the laws of the material worlds prohibit lead to remain as Gold and thus it must return to its original state. You cannot change a small plant into another either, as different laws apply to different levels or consciousness but you can change the seed before it is planted and have it remain and grow as another plant. For you to say that Alchemy is a colossal failure of a scientific Endeavour, you risk getting into a huge debate with not only me but a great deal of people who understand something more than you about Esoteric practice. I do not intend to try and convince you and in doing so, have an endless debate over the belief in God and universe - as nothing progressive will be achieved until you are ready.

This book doesn't exist. You're talking about a 'documentary' called this, narrated by G. Edward Griffin. It is based on a book called "The Ark of Noah" by David Fasold. David Fasold's claims have been thoroughly debunked by science. See this link for the scientific argument.

I watched this on VHS. I also have Dave's book but this link you sent me is interesting and did you even happen to notice the propaganda here?





[edit on 5-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Loungerist,

Here is a link I found on the PROTOCOLS of the LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION."

www.biblebelievers.org.au...

I believe this points to a Compiracy of several thousand Ashkenazi, Khazarian annd Semetic Jews + a couple thousand Gentiles; all carrying out the orders of David de' David (David Rothschild and David Rockerfeller) to create a New Global Union.

Best!




[edit on 5-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Originally posted by realrepublican…I have read much on Atlantian history and I know there is evidence to support that they were in fact, highly advanced people technologically and spiritually. Take a close look at the Blue Hole of Belize….

This is quite a laundry list you give me. Knowing and believing should not be confused with each other. Assuming that you believe Jacques Cousteau withheld evidence from his 1972 submarine adventure, Belize is tucked in between Mexico and Honduras, while the Indonesian coast; Minoan waters; The Portugese coast, and Oceana are but a few places said to the location of Atlantis. So how can you know its location, when all these other locations have are held by others as the location of Atlantis?

As for the capacitor or “Ark of the Covenant” ever wonder why the myths show lightening passing out of it? The Great Pyramid itself was a power generator and these generators were collecting energy from the Earth’s aura (or rather from the electromagnetic field).

Less than I wonder why it is that for lightening to strike this supposed capacitor lying smack in the middle of a field would be ruled out; less than why one presumes some energy emission was the cause of death when there is no indication for such; less than why The Bible is silent on what happened to the Arc when the temple spoils were carted off; less than why the Phillistines were able to make off with it when it supposedly has such deadly qualities to the touch. It is highly unlikely that man being the curious sort we are would not utilize any such technology you dare to explain, where is such use in evidence?

As for who built the Pyramids what proof has modern science come up with to explain how workers over many, many years, could build these for use as tombs, when we know that the Pyramids were never originally used as tombs anyhow? If this be the case, then what slave would build them – it seems science has made some unfounded assumptions and acting un-scientific is common when politics enters into the arena. These great structures were in built by Thoth and with the help of the airship. As for the flood of Noah’s day: you might not yet realize that the Turkish peoples have pilgrimage to the remains of Noah’s Ark, as it now still rests in Turkey, for thousands of years. I think you will find this great reading material.

While like you I am not convinced that pyramids other than the early mastabas and step pyramids were intended to be used as tombs, I have no doubt that they were connected to the funerary rights; the afterlife and religious secrets of the pharaohs, whom as far as I was concerned were interred within the temple complex of the pyramid. Pharaohs later resorted to interment in rock cut tombs within the hills then in the grounds of the valley of the Kings situated behind el-Qurn, the significance of which I will leave to you to find. It does though suggest that for more than one reason, the pyramid construction or rather the mound of creation, was no longer a necessary expense to undertake. It is striking to me that despite the 97 pyramids uncovered thus far, only three, and more specifically one, is relied upon to prove some extra-terrestrial involvement. Even after the Egyptians slowed its pyramid building, Nubian kings began their pyramid era and out built the Egyptians by an astounding 2-1, yet no one speaks to these as being the continuation of alien technology, or that aliens abandoned Egypt and settled instead in Nubia. Some I suppose will presume that the aliens just fled from Egypt causing the Egyptians to lose the ability to build pyramids, rather than assess the travails of Egypt caught up in extended wars with Nubia and then later the Hyksos, Phillistines, etc, or the necessary diversion of manpower to accommodate this as the cause for the decline in building. Not to mention the inner turmoil within Egypt itself contributing to a decreae in construction as is evidenced by the Admonitions of Ipuwer, chVI & VII. When one adequately reviews the erection of mastabas and the successive heights to which they were rising prior to the age of the perfect geometric pyramid, (refer Abydos), one cannot reasonably conclude that Egyptian technology did not advance in stages just like modern day man is doing.

It is evident to me that the fallen mastabas and step pyramids along with the plentiful depictions of Egyptian accomplishments such as the transportation of Hatshepsut’s numerous granite obelisks (some towering at over 90 feet) as recounted on the walls of her massive and incredible tomb, along with the detailed accounts by her architect, Senenmut, of all he built in her name and his (astronomical ceiling), together with the myriad papyri confirming the conscription of men to the laborious task of building (refer Djehutiemheb to Bakenptah), is indicative of Egyptian blood, sweat, tears and mind behind the wonders in Egypt. Add to all of the aforementioned the inscriptions found on foundation blocks of Snefru’s Red Pyramid which show construction began during the 10th consensus of his reign (taken as 5 years into) and ended during his 17th year, we have compelling evidence which attests either to the evolution of the engineering skills acquired by the ancient Egyptians, or the slow technology of any alien force. It seems equally evident tjherefore that those who insist on advancing alien intervention either dismiss such evidence or are not aware of same.

“In Turkey 17 miles from Mt. Ararat on a gentle slope at the 6000-foot elevation. It is a man-made object and was clearly designed as a boat. It incorporates principles of higher mathematics and advanced hydrodynamics.

I do believe it was promised that this boat would be finally revealed to the world. That time frame has come and gone. Of course it is always best to blame the impossibility of performance on the Turkish government or some such thing rather than the credulity of the explorator. I see no evidence of higher mathematics within the description in Genesis, anchor stones, or the “proper geographical location” describing Ararat, nor any photographs from pilgrims showing that their visits included more than just standing on a piece of mountain claiming they were there and therefore the Ark was underfoot. Perhaps you will care to expound.

So how did the boat get up on a mountain? Was it wind and rain, or a massive flood caused by a pole shift? Why are there salt deposits and deep sea fossils (dating 10,000 BC) in the desert which can only mean an ocean covered it and thus that land that was once submerged is now above sea level and vice-versa?

If I believed there was a boat caught up in a worldwide flood, I would be inclined to answer the first question. On the rest, it is well known that the great deserts of the world have expanded in size. Temperature shifts and extremes can cause fertile land just as they can reduce that land to sand. It is no closely guarded secret that the western desert of Egypt contains a deadly salt water table. Perchance in one of my earlier posts you saw a muted reference to the Siwa Oasis, and if not, your question will appear to yourself to be not so mysterious should you investigate that oasis and others. There is a preponderance of visual evidence as to what the winds over time can do to a desolate slice of land covered in sand. The 19th century watercolour rendering of the Sphinx (refer Louis Francçois Cassas) will give you an idea.

Also study the masonry of the earliest periods and you will find that the limestone and other (hard to construct materials) was used to build. But as tiem progressed, the masonry became softer and more primitive due to a decrease in technology over time.

I am at a loss to understand your point here.

Imagine a catastrophy forcing the North American Continent and much of the world centers into the Sea? How long would it take before our children and their children's children speak of this place of America, as a myth and how long can a car or building of metal last under sea water?

Imagine a storyteller inventing strange and wonderful places as they tend to do. Is NeverNeverLand real? Lilliput? How about the man in the moon, real? Santa Claus? Humpty Dumpty? The moon is made of cheese? The earth is stationary? There are only five planets? There is water above Heaven and below the earth? Ra fought with a giant serpent every night? The human brain (mummification) was a worthless piece of filler? It takes only one well written fantasy to grasp an audience who is more than willing to accept iit s truth, and that fact is shown not by any Egyptian tales of aliens, but by individuals millennia (19th c) after these pyramids were constructed to plant the thought that aliens were responsible. Is this how you go about justifying the tales that man would invent?

What of the 3 options must we chose? For when a man does evil to another, he usually thinks he has done something righteous,…

You mean what option are you to choose. If it is as you stated that these societies of secrets know the truth, then it is requires you to think through those options for the soundness of your position.

just as in the meetings of the CFR, do they speak as they are evil men who will bring terror upon us all, or might they instead speak of themselves as righteous and wonderful men who would bring upon a New World Order, ruled by brilliant Elites who know what is best?

And what exactly is wrong with a New World Order? Every time a new empire comes into power it can be considered a NWO. Consider that Americans by and large who by virtue of accepting that their nation is made up of states agreeing to form a whole, take no issue with there being one president and one federal government over their conglomeration of territories. Likewise Canadians, Australians, and The UK. So why exactly if people are so willing to accept their own order of dominion are they more so unwilling to accept the entire world governed by that which is acceptable to them in their land? I don’t see a mass exodus of any of the citizens of these countries opposed to nationalization of their own countries, do you?

When Bush calls for a war on Terror and yet also funds it at the same time,…

Let us not get ahead of ourselves here. The world after all has from time immemorial had its fill of bad politicians, He is not the first, and not the last.

Amon-Ra Priests murdered those Atonists and re-wrote history to conceal the truth that Akhenaton IV wanted to free the people from despotism, ignorance and slavery over a false and cruel doctrine and replace it with a God of love and mercy.

I am going to have to ask you to provide your proof here as well, since this is a motherhood statement. And while I did not provide that part of your quote, I must point out that you are grasping at straws here and taking this way off topic by talking about whether Bush is a Christian or not.

The word Aton means "incomprehensible",

I am afraid the learned people in hieroglyphs and hieratic script do not agree with you. It is taken to mean “the all.” You are trying too hard to distinguish one myth from another as though a clean slate separates the various god kings. Amun means “the hidden one” It is in the 13th-12th BCE—The Destruction of Humankind myth , where you will find that which eludes you: Ra claiming that his name (Papyrus Chester Beatty) is a secret. But he holds no specific rights to such a claim since Amun-Ra is secreted away behind a shrine because he is too awesome to behold( Red Chapel of Hatshepsut). While you are on the right track, you are looking to find definitives to explain a convoluted society caught up in religion and politics.

eem toand if you study the ancient civilizations you will notice in the history of the 'Aztecs, the Incas, and the Hindus, the same truth was known.

I have no thoughts on the similarities between Egyptian and religions of the western hemisphere, save for the fact that I do not understand why when there is a scant 3 mile wide body of water separating Russia from North America, it should come as a shock that man migrated to North America.

Egyptian history is not based in classical Egypt only but in also much of the surrounding regions. The Egyptians are not to be all bunched together as people who practiced mummification or those who always had many Gods and then later just bunched them all together into one big one. Ancient Egyptians adored certain animals as gods like God Anubis also. Did they bunch these animal Gods together also and just accept Monotheism?

You are losing focus, and I do not want you to because there is much in what you write that is backed by evidence and far more available than say; a man named Jesus preaching he is the son of god; or evidence of any biblical character contained within the Pentateuch. Suffice it to say that your comments as quoted directly above are benign.

Thoth was to Jesus, as Osiris was to Our Father, as Isis is to the Holy Spirit. What do Christians call that other than Monotheism today? I will tell you that the followers of Amon-Ra also worshiped one father God RA but they misunderstood what is “multiplicity”. Their understanding is the key difference, not whatever history book you get the word from.

Pardon me here, if at all you think I get my information from a history book, it would be a far sight better than acquiring same from the likes of a non-historian like Sitchen or whomever feeds you the story that Atlantis was this and that. And I have no idea what you mean to portray with your analogies. So once again, perhaps you would be kind enough to expound?

Multiplicity means ONE, yet many – yet not a multiple!

I do not disagree with this basic principle, that is evident in what I wrote previously, but this has nothing to so with our disagreement.

To say there is no darkness without light is wrong, for can you measure dark?

Actually I made no such contention, I merely brought into focus the obvious: that Egyptian religion focused on duality which requires simply that order requires chaos, and by inference all else that is balanced by its opposite. And to answer your question yes, darkness can be measured when one ditches the notion that darkness is only attainable by the absence of light and not vice versa. Much like the chicken and the egg. You yourself prove this is so by contradicting yourself

…in light of the understanding that darkness is an illusion.

But again you detour, and I want to be sure that detour does not amount to others so I bypass some of your response.

Actually it was not just the Amon-Ra followers but also the followers of the other Gods who killed both; Khor Aton, and Akhenaton. They stabbed Khor Aton in Apts Palace were the old Tree of Life was to be seen on the walls and then they poisoned Akhenaton also.

Actually, I will have to ask you for the evidence to support these claims. Please support these claims?

ME-There is nothing to link Atenism to the Essenes.

You are confusing resurrection with reincarnation. If the coffin ritual is symbolic of Egyptian myth, it is resurrection as it involved the reuniting of the Ka, with the physical body which was necessary to live in the underworld, and in the case of the pharaohs, as a god.

I confuse nothing of the sort – you assume too much. Resurrection means to awaken into what is in thy true divine nature and a calling back home from where we always were and always shall be. Reincarnation is the dead in judgment and a return to earth to eventually fulfill that coming resurrection through Karma. Our divine nature is to return home, as no soul is forever lost. If anything, it is S&B'ners who misunderstand and perhaps my fault is assuming they do not.

Okay, we agree to disagree, since your definitions are unlike any I am familiar with in the usage of the words. Perhaps they are adjuncts to the British National Corpus in which I am a believer.

"Judaism was a construct by virtue of the belief in the god of Israel, that that god guided, defended and cared only for the bloodline of Israel and that observance of god’s laws as outlined in the Torah, was regardless of sectarian differences, their underlying constitution......" "...... This similarity shared with Jesus of the gospel does not make Jesus an essene.."

**I have known vegetarians who will eat a little meat on Sunday to show respect for a typical Greek holiday, as they were to be a part of the community and culture. Does this mean this person was a Greek and was a big meat eater also?**...

The better question in context is: does this mean as you assert, that just because the Gospels impart some Essene teachings, Jesus was an Essene?

…Jesus never came to overwrite the laws of Moses, but to fulfill them with his gentle persuasions.

Now therein lies a whole other debate, one I might add, I have taken up several times previously and will again I am sure. But I must re-focus you on this thread to the basis of your previous posts which speak to the influence of Egyptian religion on the religions of today. If you contend that Jesus was an Essene, and Essenes were believers in Egyptian theology; that the elite of today have this Egyptian knowledge and hide it from the masses, and that is not a good thing, then I invite you to start a whole new thread for the purpose of discussing exactly why you feel Jesus, an Essene, a descendent/follower of Amun/Aten/Ra, would be fulfilling the laws of Amun/Aten/Ra under the guise of Moses, and how you reconcile that to your previous statement I enclose with " **."

When Moses went up the mountain and retrieved the two tablets with the 10 Commandments written on them, what was this event referring to in Old Testament? This is an allegorical understanding, as the 2 tablets represent the 2 sides of the human brain and thus God’s laws were to be directly inscribed into the hearts and minds of men.

No, in fact it was a simple allegorical reference to Moses at the behest of his father-in-law, attempting to rewrite new laws for those whom he governed. If you pay attention at all you will find that synagogues display these tablets within a rectangle where the tops of same are semi-circular. Have you ever asked why this is so? Have you ever asked how they came to know that the tablets were this shape? I bet you have not, and I bet you have not ever had it register that Egyptian kings at the time of Moses had their names written in a cartouche.

When Moses came down from his retreat, he saw some men still worshiping graven images and Moses killed them. Again, what does this really mean? Does it make much sense thy way the Bible says a man who had an incredible experience would all of a sudden use anger to kill another? Moses killed no-one but what he did achieve was to destroy his own personal egoism.

He saw men who were accustomed to worshipping Egyptian gods, and like the Aten detractors, they were not willing to succumb to the will of Moses. Why do I get the impression that you argue against your own synopsis?

How many Jews or even Christian’s know this today, let alone during the time of Moses? Is the Torah perfect and has it not undergone some alteration and corruption? The Essenes were indistinguishable from the other Israelites, other than their belief in a God of love and Mercy.

You mean you have changed your mind? They were Jews after all?

It is that simple and if you search you will find that Hanna and Joachim were also Essenes who were highly respected by certain Egyptians.

I have no idea who these people are, but they do not make an entire sect followers of Egyptian theology. Nor is this provable:

Many of the Egyptian Scribes and Pharisees were Essenes and that’s why the Sanhedrin authorities were cautions not to speak above their breath regarding that hatred they had for the Essenes.

I also note you have avoided all of my references to the DSS, and you specifically claimed that studied same. Instead you offer nothing but conjecture and homily as evidence.

Joshua Emmanuel the Christ was an Essene or Nazarene Prince and we call him “Jesus of Nazareth” also. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm this also.

Please provide the relevant fragmentary proof of same.

Along with providing evidence for this:

When St. John the Baptist revised the Tree of Life he gave the greatest teachings to the Essenes to keep safe and not to the Church, …

Originally posted by realrepublican
Now one good way to stay away from any “real” discussion is by distraction through entertaining certain non-progressive personalities. You know the correctors who never seem to see the bigger picture perhaps.
Some people, from their first through to their very last post, offer very little of progressiveness and sharing and only seem to present themselves as a "corrector" of error and perhaps think of themselves as an open-minded seeker of truth also? Well, I'm not going to judge anyone...

And yet that is exactly what you're doing. Unfortunately, you equate blind belief in unfounded conspiracy theories as being open-minded, and the attempt by those who like to look at things critically to correct misconceptions as being close-minded.

You are not supposed to believe; you are supposed to come to know. Blind faith is useless to those who know the truth. There are only 4 true elements; yet combinations of the 4 will appear to give you many more. Just like how light passes through a prism and gives us a rainbow of color can you come up with a new color that we have never seen as a combination of white light already?

I’m quite familiar with how light and colour work, however, there is no evidence at all to support the assertion that there are only four elements. The idea that there are four elements comes from a time when we did not understand chemistry the way we do now. We soon found out that there are many elements—ask any chemist to point out a periodic table of the elements to you. If you still assert that there are only four elements, I urge you to a) explain how this works, b) provide these four elements to me in pure form, and c) synthesize me some, oh, I don't, Helium, Palladium, and Ytterbium from them. When you have done this, I will admit that you are correct.

The Israelites were many people and among them were Galileans, Judeans, Samaritans and others. They spoke Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek. It is incorrect to label all the Essenes as only Judeans, as the Essenes were Greco-Israelites and they spoke Greek and Aramaic. The Essenes did not want to be separated from their Israelites brothers, thus they also accepted the cruel rule of the Sanhedrin. Why make such a fuss over this and what is your true intention by doing so, huh?

I make such a fuss because when one puts forward incorrect information as fact, it clouds our understanding and causes others to believe and further perpetuate untruths.

For if you cannot understand Alchemy why bother to discuss with you anything over a flying ship? I say it is not a colossal failure as I have personally seen lead changed into Gold and then back into lead again. Rest assured you should not believe a stranger, so I suggest you learn to do it yourself. It may only take you several lifetimes (with your current approach) but eventually by your attunement and improving of observation skills, you will be able to do it. Of course, the laws of the material worlds prohibit lead to remain as Gold and thus it must return to its original state.

How convenient. You cannot keep it in the form of gold to be able to show it to others and prove to the whole world that it is true (but... if it has truly turned into gold, then it is as much gold as any other gold, so there should be no reason why it shouldn't stay gold--but hey, I guess when you're making crazy claims, you can make up crazy rules to go with them, too). Explain that; If alchemy works, and one can make REAL gold from lead, then why would it not stay gold? Normal gold stays gold--that's one of the reasons it is gold, y'know?--so if anything else has been made gold, then it must stay gold to be gold. I say that any gold you've seen made from lead that later became lead again was FAKE GOLD!

And finally, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was shown decades ago to have been an anti-Semitic forgery. Anyone repeating this disturbing claim is only perpetuating anti-Jewish sentiment, which sickens the hell out of me. IT’S NOT TOO LATE: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Originally posted by realrepublican
Loungerist,

Here is a link I found on the PROTOCOLS of the LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION."

www.biblebelievers.org.au...[/quot e]

realrepublican

PEZ is a hoax. There are a number of threads on it already at ATS but also information here, here and here. There are also a number of threads on ATS on this subject.

So we have the typical academic or rather another science text-book and “Doubting Thomas” who is in the pursuit of truth, yet will never know much truth without first knowing who he is.

This is quite a laundry list you give me. Knowing and believing should not be confused with each other. Assuming that you believe Jacques Cousteau withheld evidence from his 1972 submarine adventure, Belize is tucked in between Mexico and Honduras, while the Indonesian coast; Minoan waters; The Portugese coast, and Oceana are but a few places said to the location of Atlantis. So how can you know its location, when all these other locations have are held by others as the location of Atlantis?

Don’t stop there; since both Lemuria and Atlantis were the worlds largest land areas in the world at that time. And of course between now then there were 3 major destructions which turned poles and climates and continents into smaller islands etc. You also forgot about Barbados and the Biminis mountains (Poseidia) amongst but a few areas of research. I guess since your scientists already know all the places for Atlantis, you would like me to write a book and explain to you (as a teacher) that they are not even the authorities I would be citing to begin with.

Less than I wonder why it is that for lightening to strike this supposed capacitor lying smack in the middle of a field would be ruled out; less than why one presumes some energy emission was the cause of death when there is no indication for such; less than why The Bible is silent on what happened to the Arc when the temple spoils were carted off; less than why the Phillistines were able to make off with it when it supposedly has such deadly qualities to the touch. It is highly unlikely that man being the curious sort we are would not utilize any such technology you dare to explain, where is such use in evidence?

Shall I explain the Physics of it to you also; lest the Philadelphia experiment never really happened and I suppose in your world, the Ark should have been put into use as but an early form of microwave oven, perhaps? I hate to apply that faulty logic to everything else lost in history and I suppose that everything of technology for the few who know, also allows it into the mainstream public so that you also lend your great and gullible opinion?

While like you I am not convinced that pyramids other than the early mastabas and step pyramids were intended to be used as tombs, I have no doubt that they were connected to the funerary rights; the afterlife and religious secrets of the pharaohs, whom as far as I was concerned were interred within the temple complex of the pyramid…” “skills acquired by the ancient Egyptians, or the slow technology of any alien force. It seems equally evident tjherefore that those who insist on advancing alien intervention either dismiss such evidence or are not aware of same.”

I appreciate that we can see the tombs and mummies etc. Once again, these practices came later and do not detract from my reasoning that the pyramids were not built for any other purpose other than Power centers (star gates), and healing temples. Whatever bad practices and usage that came later, which you continue to profess as if it somehow proves the Egyptians were all heathens at the onset, does not explain any further how they were constructed which was my original point in bringing them up, in the first. I mentioned the Ark of the Covenant and its basic use in the pyramid. If you want to throw history books at me fine, as I could do the same but it doesn't mean what you read is the truth. And why are you bringing up "alien intervention", unless your attempting to sway away confuse as to what is my intention.

I do believe it was promised that this boat would be finally revealed to the world. That time frame has come and gone. Of course it is always best to blame the impossibility of performance on the Turkish government or some such thing rather than the credulity of the explorator. I see no evidence of higher mathematics within the description in Genesis, anchor stones, or the “proper geographical location” describing Ararat, nor any photographs from pilgrims showing that their visits included more than just standing on a piece of mountain claiming they were there and therefore the Ark was underfoot. Perhaps you will care to expound.

Whether you see the evidence or not, suffice to say that many do see it and you seem to assume that the people who were able to build a boat out of wood and without having a metal lining of the hull, and had it stay in tact matters not. Physics wonder how a boat that large could have floated and not been dissembled without a metal shell or lining and that explains advanced mathematics and hydraulics.
quote:

I am at a loss to understand your point here.

The masonry of the earliest periods would have been extremely difficult to work for the level of advancement of the people that scientists profess. Many of the structures were made with a hard rock like a limestone (for example) and other harder to work with Masonry, which would have required advanced machinery. But over time, as we approach modern day, we noticed an actual decline in technology. Thus, this shows that a period of technological increase, led to a period of decrease in technology – and the resultant follows same that sciences were once known and then suddenly lost, why?

And what exactly is wrong with a New World Order? Every time a new empire comes into power it can be considered a NWO. Consider that Americans by and large who by virtue of accepting that their nation is made up of states agreeing to form a whole, take no issue with there being one president and one federal government over their conglomeration of territories. Likewise Canadians, Australians, and The UK. So why exactly if people are so willing to accept their own order of dominion are they more so unwilling to accept the entire world governed by that which is acceptable to them in their land? I don’t see a mass exodus of any of the citizens of these countries opposed to nationalization of their own countries, do you?

Which of the NWO's shall we have then? Take your pick dear fellow, for surely you must be joking, as the Fabian camp is not much better than the Leninist, other than the fact that the Fabians use coercion through law and government, rather than brute force. Leninist's appear as "wolves in wolves clothing", use brute force and tend to appear in places in the world where the nations have weak republic structure. The Fabian camp out as “wolves in sheep’s clothing” slowly taking control over strong Republics. Does this answer your question as to why people like the USA more than many of the Leninist nations, as I also do prefer the Fabian camp for now, yes.

: When Bush calls for a war on Terror and yet also funds it at the same time,…
Let us not get ahead of ourselves here. The world after all has from time immemorial had its fill of bad politicians, He is not the first, and not the last.

So what do we do about it? Should I feel sorry for him also, since he’s not the first and the last? Don’t you want to see him on trial with the rest of them?

I am going to have to ask you to provide your proof here as well, since this is a motherhood statement. And while I did not provide that part of your quote, I must point out that you are grasping at straws here and taking this way off topic by talking about whether Bush is a Christian or not.

Regarding re-writing history….. Well I wish you best of luck on trying to find that which was re-written. However, the truth is known to those few who can raise the consciousness to higher levels. But of course I don’t want to sway off course again, so I’ll just tell you that the nucleuses of the American historical Institute are not the only Collectivist who decided to re-write history.

I am afraid the learned people in hieroglyphs and hieratic script do not agree with you. It is taken to mean “the all.” You are trying too hard to distinguish one myth from another as though a clean slate separates the various god kings. Amun means “the hidden one” It is in the 13th-12th BCE—The Destruction of Humankind myth , where you will find that which eludes you: Ra claiming that his name (Papyrus Chester Beatty) is a secret. But he holds no specific rights to such a claim since Amun-Ra is secreted away behind a shrine because he is too awesome to behold( Red Chapel of Hatshepsut). While you are on the right track, you are looking to find definitives to explain a convoluted society caught up in religion and politics.

I disagree as the languages they study are extremely difficult and without help from someone who can remember their past life (hint, hint) you may find that those definitions are not quite accurate. I do not care what you say about it, as I know all too well what “Aton” means. Neither does it mean Sun-Disk, btw!

I have no thoughts on the similarities between Egyptian and religions of the western hemisphere, save for the fact that I do not understand why when there is a scant 3 mile wide body of water separating Russia from North America, it should come as a shock that man migrated to North America.

Again, you assume the poles were in the same place and that the land masses as known today were same. I get the idea you are a very outward, of only the basic 5 senses and nothing more; if you would look into other than the historical researchers of collectivism like (AHI), who seem to discount so much science in their pursuit of discovery, you have moutains of information to absorb.

You are losing focus, and I do not want you to because there is much in what you write that is backed by evidence and far more available than say; a man named Jesus preaching he is the son of god; or evidence of any biblical character contained within the Pentateuch. Suffice it to say that your comments as quoted directly above are benign.

My point being… old chap, the Egyptians were neither forced to accept Monotheism nor were they always Polytheists. They began as Monotheist when erecting the Great Pyramids to help remove appendages of the human-animals – this work was not done by people who believed in the elemental Sun God, but an actual spiritual God.

Pardon me here, if at all you think I get my information from a history book, it would be a far sight better than acquiring same from the likes of a non-historian like Sitchen or whomever feeds you the story that Atlantis was this and that. And I have no idea what you mean to portray with your analogies. So once again, perhaps you would be kind enough to expound?

I have not read much of Sitchen and I do not care for what you call a historian. In fact, since you brought Sitchen up you might trend lightly calling him a non-historian, as he tends to have a better understanding than many so-called historians. Many historians feed my “stories” of Atlantis and if I wanted to try and convince you and write for days and days, I would do so but this is not my intention in coming here.

quote: Multiplicity means ONE, yet many – yet not a multiple!
I do not disagree with this basic principle, that is evident in what I wrote previously, but this has nothing to so with our disagreement.

My intension was only to explain my understanding that it matters not what you call yourself monotheistic or dualistic etc, what matters is that ALL can misunderstand the idea of having more than 1 or many, and that is all.

quote: To say there is no darkness without light is wrong, for can you measure dark?
Actually I made no such contention, I merely brought into focus the obvious: that Egyptian religion focused on duality which requires simply that order requires chaos, and by inference all else that is balanced by its opposite. And to answer your question yes, darkness can be measured when one ditches the notion that darkness is only attainable by the absence of light and not vice versa. Much like the chicken and the egg. You yourself prove this is so by contradicting yourself
quote: …in light of the understanding that darkness is an illusion.
But again you detour, and I want to be sure that detour does not amount to others so I bypass some of your response.

Yes indeed, as it is my intension to prove you and them wrong. I stand by what I said earlier. Whosoever call themselves dualists that do support “order out of chaos” are practicing a dangerous idea and an idea such like this, never allows for the egoism to remain in check. The Fabian society uses this terminology of order out of Chaos (smashing the worlds to bits and bits) and we are seeing the fruits of this today, are we not? Doesn’t seem to me that you’re too worried about what really matters regarding anything of vital importance other than your pay stub, I’m sure.

Okay, we agree to disagree, since your definitions are unlike any I am familiar with in the usage of the words. Perhaps they are adjuncts to the British National Corpus in which I am a believer.

To state it rather bluntly, your darn tooting we disagree and I could care less about that the BNC’s collections of words! You would only try to have me conform to become stupid – no thanks. My understanding is Esoteric and not so far out there, acceptor these who want it to be.

The better question in context is: does this mean as you assert, that just because the Gospels impart some Essene teachings, Jesus was an Essene?

The simple answer is that the Essenes were not the same as the other Israelites and only those they have been linked by culture and locality. Do not mix them up.

Now therein lies a whole other debate, one I might add, I have taken up several times previously and will again I am sure. But I must re-focus you on this thread to the basis of your previous posts which speak to the influence of Egyptian religion on the religions of today. If you contend that Jesus was an Essene, and Essenes were believers in Egyptian theology; that the elite of today have this Egyptian knowledge and hide it from the masses, and that is not a good thing, then I invite you to start a whole new thread for the purpose of discussing exactly why you feel Jesus, an Essene, a descendent/follower of Amun/Aten/Ra, would be fulfilling the laws of Amun/Aten/Ra under the guise of Moses, and how you reconcile that to your previous statement I enclose with " **."

I think you are full of it and I can tell you that the elite do not hold true to what the Essene Jesus taught and btw, it is you who needs to start a new thread, and not I. I could care less about what the Elite call themselves and I certainly think you do not understand all that much on anything occultic and esoteric, or why for that matter children go missing and wind up describing being sexually assaulted and involved in satanic rituals at the White House. These kids can describe the inside living quarters of the White House, can you? Places like Bohemian Grove, such that it should arise suspicion deserve to be explored; lest the likes of people such as yourself offer very little of informational significance either way; you simply are "somewhere in between" of anything constructive.

I wrote:

When Moses went up the mountain and retrieved the two tablets with the 10 Commandments written on them, what was this event referring to in Old Testament? This is an allegorical understanding, as the 2 tablets represent the 2 sides of the human brain and thus God’s laws were to be directly inscribed into the hearts and minds of men.

and you wrote:

No, in fact it was a simple allegorical reference to Moses at the behest of his father-in-law, attempting to rewrite new laws for those whom he governed. If you pay attention at all you will find that synagogues display these tablets within a rectangle where the tops of same are semi-circular. Have you ever asked why this is so? Have you ever asked how they came to know that the tablets were this shape? I bet you have not, and I bet you have not ever had it register that Egyptian kings at the time of Moses had their names written in a cartouche.

I'm going to tell you something a little more:

When Jesus was a child he used to remove these 2 tablets while he was in the Temple of the Essenes in Heliopolis. This temple was on the eastern bank of the Nile and was a square building, sixty feet by sixty feet. In the room called the holy of holies there was always 2 tablets with the 10 Commandments written on them, resting on alter. However, Maria (Mary) would come in the Temple and she would that find Jesus kept on placing the 2 tablets aside. Now what was Jesus trying to say, by removing those tablets and placing them on the side of alters? When Jesus was eleven years old, he asked Ezekiel to place the commandments to the left side of the alters and place in the center of the alter, a triangular marble tablet. Thus again the triangle is fulfilling the law, as the triangle is the trinity – father, son and Holy Spirit – not the 10 commandants.

He saw men who were accustomed to worshipping Egyptian gods, and like the Aten detractors, they were not willing to succumb to the will of Moses. Why do I get the impression that you argue against your own synopsis?

Moses killed no-one and sadly, you would believe that the man who reached atonement with the divine creator in a state of ecstasy, would also lose his temper in a huge display of egoism and decide to kill someone; disregarding the basic idea, tenants and teachings that he as a Saintly, was trying lead as example. He would have to turn his back on God to have killed those people.

You mean you have changed your mind? They were Jews after all?

As I have written already: The Israelites were many people and among them were Galileans, Judeans, Samaritans and others. They spoke Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek. It is incorrect to label all the Essenes as only Judeans, as the Essenes were Greco-Israelites and they spoke Greek and Aramaic. The Essenes did not want to be separated from their Israelites brothers, thus they also accepted the cruel rule of the Sanhedrin. If you think they are Jews, then feel free to stop bothering me over Semantics.

I have no idea who these people are, but they do not make an entire sect followers of Egyptian theology. Nor is this provable:

You have no idea who Hanna and Joachim were? How can you say something is not provable then when you haven’t any idea because you never went to find out?

I also note you have avoided all of my references to the DSS, and you specifically claimed that studied same. Instead you offer nothing but conjecture and homily as evidence.

The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the life the man Yeshua or Jesus was, apocalyptic and sectarian. I brought up the Sanhedrin to prove a point that the Essenes loved their fellow Israelites, even though the Israelites considered them heretics because they were nomadic, reserved and apocalyptic people. Your reference proves nothing unless you understand that Yeshua was not living the life of what you are referring to as a Jew. The Essenes were like Monks in that they completely separated themselves from the rest of the community. Can you not at least accept that the DSS provides more pointers, than the Bible to show this connection? If you really persist I shall bore you with further proof but even ther Bible writes "He shall be called a Nazorean!" (Matthew 2:23)."
Now, can you also tell me what major difference there is between an Essene and a Nazarene because I can tell you that there is a difference between a Nazarene and a typical Jew, somewhereinbetween.

Along with providing evidence for this:
quote: When St. John the Baptist revised the Tree of Life he gave the greatest teachings to the Essenes to keep safe and not to the Church, …

First of all, I am only permitted to reveal that it is in good hands and away from the majority. When you are ready, you will find this truth yourself and you are not yet ready, which btw is not the "Tree of Life".





[edit on 6-10-2005 by realrepublican]

To both Lexicon and Trinity:

Between the lot of you: I brought this topic up regarding as a manner of approach to Loungerist that I found a link that "some" people, including Edward Griffin claim to be a forgery, yet some still do not. I was hoping for his eventual feedback and I am interested in the links Trinity provided also but please allow others to decide for themselves. There is more than your links available to some researchers who further imply that a forgery is not the same thing as a fabrication.

Now for the record, once again Lexicon who tells me to get educated jumps at any opportunity to correct me. I wish to show what I already stated earlier, as I posted this to Loungerist on pg#2.

"I wonder if these high rank Illuminati are the original Son’s of Belial of Atlantis – or wicked magicians evolving through various Manichean sects etc. Researchers such as Franz Springmier even place the GWB at the very top of the Illuminati pyramid, if I remember correctly? The Brotherhood of the Snake was supposedly the cabal of Luciferians who brought forth or rather revised the original “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, or as some researchers claims the “Protocols of the Synagogue of Satan”. Researchers like Edward Griffin believe the Protocols are a forgery - but I wonder if there was an original version – may be the Talmud itself? What is your take/understanding on the Protocols? "

As for the few of you who have nothing more to offer and no care to provide anything of interesting discussion in exposing the evil in the world and since you have already decided that everything is peachy, don’t try too hard, wasting any more of your time trying to correct me on this thread, as I will only be here for a couple more days but the Elite will not be leaving for a long while yet. I hope Lexicon (in this life or the next) doesn’t take too much heat for saying that Alchemy is a scientific failure, btw.



[edit on 6-10-2005 by realrepublican]

Oh and btw ----> may be when Lexicon the "correcter" becomes a "real" Mason, Trinity will kindly teach him a thing or two regarding what exactly is "REAL" Masonry vs. the fake Masonry?