Abu Ghraib Videos Show Children Being Raped

Well depending on what happens in 20 days I guess we might find out, otherwise it will be interesting to note how far up the court system the government will fight it.

www.democracynow.org.../09/30/1411211

Judge Orders release of More Abu Ghraib Pics
A federal judge ruled Thursday that graphic pictures of prisoner abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released, despite government claims that they could damage the US image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of "rape and murder" and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were "blatantly sadistic." The ACLU and Center for Constitutional Rights sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of the ongoing lawsuits over Abu Ghraib. The government is being given 20 days to appeal the decision. Last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images, Rumsfeld said "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Read these.

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

Unlike you, these men have proven their identity, and their statements are damning.

Those links don't open for me. Unfortunately.

Originally posted by seattlelaw
Tell me this, when you meet another soldier for the fist time aren't the first issues discussed who you are with, where you did basic, how long you've been in, what "s-it" you've been in, and maybe where you're originally from, etc.? It's a bonding exercise. Your already on the same team but you intentionally seek to deepen the bond. He might save your butt down the road.

When ever i meet a soldier, i always ask what regiment he is from, the same as you would ask the next person what job he does. Same mentality don't ya think?

Then we can go to discuss the exploits we have witnessed etc, just the same as you would with a civilian. Same mentality again don't ya think?

Deepen the bond as you put it , is normal for any military person, no matter what regiment or rank. That is how the military works. It is something that you grow up with within the military, no matter what country you serve with.

What is so wrong with that? Maybe its because you don't understand the military way of thinking eh? Maybe you have to have been in the military to be able to comprehend that kind of mentality?

Maybe, just maybe, you have no experiance within the military?

Originally posted by seattlelaw

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Read these.

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

Unlike you, these men have proven their identity, and their statements are damning.

Those links don't open for me. Unfortunately.

It seems the site is down now, but it was up when I posted the links.

hrw.org...

"Now I am waiting for the reply that states that I don't know what I am talking about because I was indoctrinated and brainwashed by the US Military. "

How can we trust anything you say? your one of the ones who has been conditioned. j/k

You claim you don't kill civilians, but your history says otherwise. And this goes beyond my lai and iraq, depleted uranium and agent orange.

The rapes, the torture. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresdan.

There is a history here a bloody history. And it starts with the death of 10 million native americans.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

And have you been conditioned to support the terorist's?
I would think so going by some of the remarks you have made.

It works both ways you know................

So how is it that i have been conditioned.

i am surrounded by western media.

The only access to other sources i have is through the internet, and you have that same access.

heh, i'm not the one who went through dehuminisation training.

Devilwasp

Well thanks for the info because a part of me did suspect they where something more than plane SAS. They where two men, where they should be four. What kind of soldiers are these. Psy-op grade.

we would have done it at the start,

You tried, you've been trying for the last two years, belive me i witnessed it all. Since the Churches where bombed, something was up.

If we wanted that we could have done so, easily and efficiently.

You guys are just soo perfect at everything aren't you? If you wanted to do something, it would have already happened a thousand years ago. It's not possible that you tried and failed and had to keep trying.
If you think it is a peace of cake, but you underestimate how much iraqies love their country and how much that brings them together, Something which you claimed you agree with me on. So you see it's not so easy is it?

YOu and your tim collins, you know what, i'm going to read about this tim collins since you insist so so much. Yes he has expetional lack of credibility. but hey , maybe if i give your source a chance, you'll give the resistance a chance? how about it.

The iraqi people as a whole" hate the british,

I never ever said that, and i would never say that because it sin't true, the Iraqi people don't hate any particular race or country, they hate imperialist governments of certain nations. Iraqies, including the resistance, send there respect out to those in the britain and in the US who apposed the war. You say Iraqies just want to live, but i think most know that self determination is something worth fighting for.

I'd rather say live and let live
But for those who would threaten my family
There's nothing I won't give

(Chorus)
I will fight for my country
I'll defend this land
I will stare at the whites of your soldiers' eyes
With this Kalishnikov in my hand

Song - Fallujah by david Rovics

www.soundclick.com...


You think the resistance are in the minority you are in for a rude awakening. People don't like to be medled with. YOu have no right.

[edit on 1-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

"Maybe, just maybe, you have no experiance within the military?"

I have a little experience. My grandfather was involved in a little thing called WWI. My father was involved in a small conflict in Korea. My brother is a Lt. in the Navy. Have I been indoctrinated, conditioned, learned the finer points of the most efficient ways of killing a man? No. But there was a time in this nation that the citizen soldier was held in the highest esteem. The citizen soldiers launched this nation. This was before the professional soldier. Before mercenaries were hired to do the job our military apparently couldn't handle.

Rah, rah. Many of us are not impressed with you guys. I watch the journalists getting mowed down in Iraq. I watch the old men and women and chilren getting sniped. I watch the cluster bombs falling on the small towns and the babies screaming. I watch the next generation from the DU fallout from Desert Storm missing fingers and toes or with empty sockets where eyes should be. And I listen to you gung ho jar heads screaming "rahhhh" and sending home your digital photo's of the human pig piles of naked Iraqi men, stroking their meat under death threats, being dehumanized for simple, twisted pleasure of our proud military. Pal, you boys have, as Ricky Ricardo would say, a lot of splainin' to do.

Originally posted by Bikereddie
And have you been conditioned to support the terorist's?
I would think so going by some of the remarks you have made.

It works both ways you know................

PLEASE show us all where anyone showed any support for terrorists.

Unless American acts in Iraq are considered terrorism that people like you support........

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Well thanks for the info because a part of me did suspect they where something more than plane SAS. They where two men, where they should be four. What kind of soldiers are these. Psy-op grade.

Thing is, there was nothing more.
It was a simple recon, no attack unit nor assualt force.
What I am saying is atleast 4 men on the ground at once, atleast another 30 in reserve and another number odd for anything more.

You tried, you've been trying for the last two years, belive me i witnessed it all. Since the Churches where bombed, something was up.

You witnessed it?
How can you witness a secret operation that only the people involved would know, believe me no one knows about british intel operations until they are done.

You guys are just soo perfect at everything aren't you?

If you wanted to do something, it would have already happened a thousand years ago. It's not possible that you tried and failed and had to keep trying.

No we are not perfect, we just learn from our mistakes.
If we wanted to do something now all we need to do is do it , we are allies with the strongest military force in the world, the president of the second largest military force and member of 2 of the worlds largest alliances with miltiary capability.
It is possible, we just tend not fail a second time.

If you think it is a peace of cake, but you underestimate how much iraqies love their country and how much that brings them together, Something which you claimed you agree with me on. So you see it's not so easy is it?

I do not underestimate, and I know how much damage unrestricted warfare would do to the insurgents.

YOu and your tim collins, you know what, i'm going to read about this tim collins since you insist so so much. Yes he has expetional lack of credibility. but hey , maybe if i give your source a chance, you'll give the resistance a chance?

how about it.

I gave them a chance before believe it or not, I did not want my troops there after I learned we were lied to but I changed that.
Afrter I seen some of the acts commited I noticed they had far less morals than even the IRA did.
He lacks credibility? Wow didnt know that, would have thought a man who lost his career by helping iraqis and gets an OBE would have credibility.

I never ever said that, and i would never say that because it sin't true,

Nethier did i!
I said the exact oposite..

the Iraqi people don't hate any particular race or country, they hate imperialist governments of certain nations.

That is not strictly true you and I know that.

Iraqies, including the resistance, send there respect out to those in the britain and in the US who apposed the war. You say Iraqies just want to live, but i think most know that self determination is something worth fighting for.

Yeah and its worth fighting against the insurgency who's only goal seems to be putting who THEY want in power, not what the iraqi people want.

You think the resistance are in the minority you are in for a rude awakening. People don't like to be medled with. YOu have no right.
[edit on 1-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

We dont like to be threatened, especially by someone who had chemical weapons and used them and still had them (Cant deny that one since some where left after GW1, butler report proves that.)


[edit on 2/10/05 by JAK]

Syrian Sister, I have an off-topic question:
I presume you are of middle-eastern origin and I would really like to know if you stay in the Middle-east..
Its for this informal survey I am conducting on ATS members, who are of non-western origin..
I am from India, reside in India, and I'd also like to add, that I along with my country are totally against the war in Iraq

The only Rape these terrorists are involved in is the rape of eachother:


politics.abovetopsecret.com...


Rape: Part of the extremists development

Originally posted by seattlelaw

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Read these.

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

Unlike you, these men have proven their identity, and their statements are damning.

Those links don't open for me. Unfortunately.

They work now.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
So how is it that i have been conditioned.

i am surrounded by western media.

The only access to other sources i have is through the internet, and you have that same access.

heh, i'm not the one who went through dehuminisation training.

But you stress the fact that you have witnessed things etc. You continue to point out the fact that you are behind your so called freedom fighters, not just in this thread, but in past threads.

You have your ideals set into your mind by the sensationalism of the so called freedom fighters, whom you so radically support. All you have is the word of these people. Is that not conditioning? They are, and have conditioned you into believing that is it OK to kill in the name of your God and to gain martyrdom. Yet you have stated that to become a martyr, is not by killing others.

quote: Originally posted by Syrian Sister
And just so you know in future, being a martyr has nothing to do with killing yourself. It's if you get Killed by another force, when fighting for something.

The people you support have, and are continuing to kill innocents in the name of God and to hopefully become a martyr.

I cannot accept you ideals, much the same as you cannot accept mine.

[edit on 2-10-2005 by Bikereddie]

I guess the proof will be in the way of pictures. How sad...

This is not my country as it was...

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Could you explain how you know without your having been a member of the military?

Read these.

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

hrw.org...

Unlike you, these men have proven their identity, and their statements are damning.

How have these men proven their identity? They are called Sergeant A, Sergeant B and Sergeant C.

There is no names at all mentioned throughout the whole dialogue you linked to.

I admit that the statements are damning, but how true are they?

I suppose i, and anyone else could, with a bit of time, come up with something very similar calling people by letters instead of names. It adds to the intrigue and 'what if' factor of any story.

What I am saying is atleast 4 men on the ground at onc

It was your own people who said they where SAS, but now you say they only send out 4 SAS at a time. Hmmm but there was only 2 men, sounds like a psy-op mission.
Spies move alone. Sabatuers sometimes have more.

believe me no one knows about british intel operations until they are done.

heh last time we knew before they where done.

If we wanted to do something now all we need to do is do it

Yeah you want to start civil war, and you are Doing it. It just takes more that being "the strongest military force in the world" to turn brother against brother.

I gave them a chance before believe it or not, I did not want my troops there after I learned we were lied to but I changed that.

That's not giving them a chance, that's giving the anti bush a chance, not the pro resistance.

If you want to give them a chance and be true to your word, watch this.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Afrter I seen some of the acts commited

They never commited those acts you accuse them off.

by helping iraqis and get

helping iraqies by killing them?

I never ever said that, and i would never say that because it sin't true,

Nethier did i!

I didn't accuse you of saying it. You accused ME of saying it. Don't you remember?

But, dont think for a second that they "The iraqi people as a whole" hate the british

uhuh. now you remember.

Yeah and its worth fighting against the insurgency who's only goal seems to be putting who THEY want in power, not what the iraqi people want.

Like the Us wanting to put their style of regime in Iraq? The last thing the US want is democracy in Iraq. The resistance isn't fighting for anything but liberating their country.

If you notice the resistance doesn't have on leadership, it doesn't have one ideology, it doesn't have one political party or drive. If the resistance where after power, they would be collaborating with the US.

No the only thing the resistance wants, is to free their country from occupation.

We dont like to be threatened,

nobody threatened you. And there was obviously, no WMD's to threaten you with.


[edit on 3-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

bikerredie

You continue to point out the fact that you are behind your so called freedom fighters, not just in this thread, but in past threads.

And this makes me brainwashed just because i don't hold the same opinion you do?

It is my choice to support the resistance, from the articles that i have read.

No body sat me down for 6 months training and taught me "supporting the resistance 101". No i didn't join the armed forces to do that, unlike our friend here.

You have your ideals set into your mind by the sensationalism of the so called freedom fighters, whom you so radically support.

Like YOU have ideas about your so called British and American "freedom fighters" and democracy spreaders, WHOME YOU so radically support?

All you have is the word of these people.

You sir, are very much. MISTAKEN.

and have conditioned you into believing that is it OK to kill in the name of your God and to gain martyrdom.

LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!! when have i ever said it was ok to kill in the name of god?

NEVER. And i Dare you to try to find one quote where i said so.

I have always said, it is ok to kill those who have invaded and occupied your country.

It's called war.

Yet you have stated that to become a martyr, is not by killing others.

It's not, Martin luther King was a Martyr, and he was killed for what he belived. Malcom X was a martyr and he was shot outside his home. Rachael Corrie was a martyr, and she was buldozed to death by IDF troops, while trying to stop the destruction of a palestinian home. The Zulu's where martyrs, because they died trying to fight for their homeland.

They are, and have conditioned you into believing that is it OK to kill in the name of your God and to gain martyrdom.

I have never heard this from the resistance. What You are thinking about the CIA and MOSSAD run "al Qaeda", not my resistance . It's ok to kill the invaders and occupiers of your country whatever god you belive in, and even if you don't belive in one. And it's ok to do it however you can, ofcource while protecting the lives of the innocent.

But you know what's quiet hypocritical is that Martyrdom is in US culture as well.

Have you ever watched the movie ID4 (independance day) ?

Well i do belive at the end of that movie, and american pilot suicides bombs an alien ship.

Sure it sounds funny but still the culture is there. You are the one who has been conditioned to demonise the resistance.

What about the Kamikazies, who steered their aircraft into enemy ships?



[edit on 3-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
It was your own people who said they where SAS, but now you say they only send out 4 SAS at a time. Hmmm but there was only 2 men, sounds like a psy-op mission.
Spies move alone. Sabatuers sometimes have more.

I am not denying that they where SAS, I am denying that they where doing psy-ops , why? Because the SAS are not a pys-op unit, try 15 pys-op unit, a triservice phycological warfare unit.
Or SRR, another topnotch unit with much experience in intel and physcological warfare.
There standard procdedure for recon is to have 2 men per car or less with another 3 in direct support., (This was the standard ops style in NI acording to multiple sources)
With another 30 odd within a set time, for what ever reason when these two guys got hit , the other 2 could not get near or support it and the men where most likely dragged away before support could arrive

heh

last time we knew before they where done.

Yeah catching them in fluke checkpoint stop is real counter intel stuff there

Yeah you want to start civil war, and you are Doing it. It just takes more that being "the strongest military force in the world" to turn brother against brother.

If we wanted to we would have done it.
We are not doing it, if we were you would see the country split and in civil war withing a year of us invadeing IMO.
BTW, you realise how easy it is to manipulate a people once thier angry, right?
Thats what pys-ops is about, finding weaknesses and exploiting them.

That's not giving them a chance, that's giving the anti bush a chance, not the pro resistance.

No I gave all sides a chance, when they started executing civilians I turned away.

If you want to give them a chance and be true to your word, watch this.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

I dont give chances to kidnappers, rapists, thugs and murderers.

They never commited those acts you accuse them off.

The link I showed then was created by a splinter cell I take it?
Yet again, the usual exscuse.

helping iraqies by killing them?

My country's men and women only kill those who threaten them, they are under orders to return fire not open fire.
Plus, you might want to thank the british army and the medical corp for looking after all the wounded iraqis who where hurt by both sides but hey, a doctors still a soldeir and a devil right?

I didn't accuse you of saying it. You accused ME of saying it. Don't you remember?

No I didnt!

uhuh. now you remember.

Right...whats that supposed to mean?

Like the Us wanting to put their style of regime in Iraq? The last thing the US want is democracy in Iraq. The resistance isn't fighting for anything but liberating their country.

The US wanted a fairer system than the murdering kind before, also WTH are you going about the US to me?

If they where liberating thier country they would be attacking military targets, not civilian.
Or are police stations and high streets now designated military targets.

If you notice the resistance doesn't have on leadership, it doesn't have one ideology, it doesn't have one political party or drive. If the resistance where after power, they would be collaborating with the US.

Thats the point, the resistance is a shattered mess of thugs, anarchists, wanabes, criminals , political activists and crazed mainiacs.
Atleast the IRA or the UVF had a leadership and a plan, the only plan the resistance has is chaos.

No the only thing the resistance wants, is to free their country from occupation.

If they did they would get orginised and actually start to hit military targets and not civilians.

nobody threatened you. And there was obviously, no WMD's to threaten you with.
[edit on 3-10-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Oh no WMD's huh?
Lets just get the context right shall we?
Are you denying there was 0 WMD's absolutely and unconditionaly and that there was no weapons of the biological, nuclear, chemical or conventional kind related to WMD's?
Or
Are you denying that there where 0 WMD's of the type described by both british and american intelligence agencies?