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Police State is coming

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posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Dero
Steal my landcruiser. Hah. You're funny.


Oh, wrong model? Sorry. I can see how that would be important.


Hell no, I've always been for the military on the streets, you think gangbangers would sling crack on the corners if they new they'd get shot on sight? Doubtful.


Yeah, just open up on any punk on a street corner passing a bag for cash. And don't worry about the innocent bystanders taking head shots in the crossfire. Collateral damage to making the world the way you want it. But why stop there? Why not kill the white, affluent, suburban buyers as well. Heck, let's have the death penalty apply for all suspected felons. That way we can avoid the waste of time and money required by the judicial system. I mean, who needs due process when we have cops who've taken an oath to do the right thing? Just load 'em up and let 'em start shooting. I'm sure they won't make too many mistakes. And anyway, once they're dead they're not complaining, right?


If you're not screwing around NOT being American and being an all around oxygen thief, then what are you worried about?
suspected

I guess I'm worried about murdering people for (allegedly) selling crack for starters. You seem awfully eager to pull the trigger. Why aren't you willing to do the same when the thieves are living in D.C. robbing the treasury in plain view? Let me tell you, they dearly LOVE the fact that you are focused on the small time neighborhood crack dealers as opposed to their own thieving. You do know, don't you, that the CIA has a colorful history of selling blow?

So tell me, what does it mean to be American? Ignore the truth? Believe the BS spewed on FOX? Apparently, the answer is yes to both.





posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 11:31 PM
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Dude, FOX news is the heat.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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I live in a major American city, and I can assure you that the Police State has come while we were all busy trying to survive. I live in a quiet, residential neighborhood just west of the downtown area in this city, and as I walk my dog every morning, I notice no fewer than eight (8) video cameras watching me, that have all appeared in the last year. This is in no way a high crime area, and is barely a high-traffic area except during rush hours. Yet these cameras, placed by the municipality, are watching. That's a police state.
When an American citizen can be held indefinitely as a "enemy-combatant" without being charged, that's a police state.
When the FBI can search my house without me knowing about it, that's a police state.
In the name of this phoney-baloney "war on terror", which has only been started to make the US easier to govern, the USA has become what it has always hated most: a police state.

And if you think for one minute that some silly second amendment is going to save you because you can own a bird gun, you're badly mistaken. The weapons American "gun nuts" are so fond of will be useless against a Federal force. Their only use is for citizens to kill each other. That's why this Republican-fascist government has been so willing to let us keep them.

But as long as we can still communicate, LIKE THIS, there is still hope.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 02:01 AM
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Yeah, on our little island of 20,000 they just erected a security fence with concertina wire surrounding our little post office's parking lot. They say it's for "security" and yet nothing much ever happens here. The local joke is the section of the paper that reviews police activity for the preceding week. It's usually a few DUI's or some dope smoking kids. And yet we need our PO parking lot secured from ... ?

Reminds me of the "free speech zones" erected for the conventions in NYC, etc. Things will get worse. And the funny thing is the guys who love their FOX "news" will be the most shocked when it's their turn to be cuffed. What amazes me is the willingness of the Republican Party to allow it to come to this. They were so desparate for power that they were willing to do a deal with the devil himself.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 03:01 AM
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Great post!!

yes i do belive we are heading towards a police state a little bit at a time. I was very disturbed by the video posted by blackholebrain. with the army going house to house with guns drawn and ready to fire. the last comment spoken when he said that he would fire on americans that is what the national gaurd is for.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 03:13 AM
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Because the National Guard is sworn, like myself and the rest of our brave servicemen and women to defend against all threats, foreign AND domestic. I wouldn't think twice on pulling the trigger on a middle aged white male whose the total polar opposite of the stereotypical arab terrorist if he was plotting to kill my President or put a bomb somewhere.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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I also took that oath many times and feel I should remind you that the oath goes, "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.".

It says we will defend the Constitution against all enemies and states this prior to any statement of following orders. Also, as we all were carefully trained, there are lawful orders and non-lawful orders. You must follow lawful orders, but you cannot follow non-lawful ones. To do so is to violate the first part of our oath.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Jaryn
I also took that oath many times and feel I should remind you that the oath goes, "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.".

It says we will defend the Constitution against all enemies and states this prior to any statement of following orders. Also, as we all were carefully trained, there are lawful orders and non-lawful orders. You must follow lawful orders, but you cannot follow non-lawful ones. To do so is to violate the first part of our oath.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.


I understand an oath is something to stand by, by when the people who are in charge are the ones that are telling you to shoot an innocent man, well you now face a moral delema. Who is right? Either way, if you are the one who shot him, you will be the one who has to live with that guilt. And if you feel no guilt, then you have become part of the same populace that has written that oath.

Now don't get me wrong as i support our men in uniform, but i also still believe in the mistakes men make (knowingly or not).

I hope i did not offend anyone, but i just want to make a point that there are so many people who have taken oaths that they do not stand by, that to me it has become disgusting.

So the best thing in my oppinion... is education on the subject at hand. and dedication to the people involved on both sides, after all, without said enemy there would be no conflict. Under this oath however you are not allowed to ask questions, so how much do you really know about what is going on?



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, not having taken any such oath besides the pledge of allegiance, but isn't it accurate to say that, while the military take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution there is no requirement that they read and understand it or the amendments or caselaw interpreting it. Sort of a hollow promise considering.

What's really drilled into you guys is to follow orders from above, correct? The military does not want or expect its foot soldiers to question commands from above even though those soldiers have a moral and legal obligation to disobey unlawful commands including murdering innocent civilians, etc.

It seems to me that every time a bomb is dropped near or on a civilian target the pilot and everyone involved is involved in questionable behavior. I believe Nuremburg and earlier English law settled the obligations of the soldier to act morally regardless of orders. So the foot soldiers working the concentration camps could not avoid accountability by pointing to superior officers orders. Of course, the victors seldom come to trial so as long as "we" keep on winning there will never be any accountability for our actions whether bully or protector.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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No offense taken and I highly appreciate your well thought out response. You actually made me feel a bit 'vindicated' for having posted something that many of my fellow veterans and active duty might find offensive.

One point I need to add:

Originally posted by scoobdude
Under this oath however you are not allowed to ask questions, so how much do you really know about what is going on?

While you are 'discouraged' from asking questions, there is not a specific prohibition on it. In fact, we were briefed many times that it is our duty to question orders which are dubious in nature to clarify that they are indeed valid, lawful orders.

To expand on this, there were two times in my career in which I was forced to request written orders, due to being given an order which was not blatantly illegal. In both cases, the individual immediately gave up when they realized they would have to be permanently accountable for having given the order.

I'm now more certain than ever that some of our more extreme veterans and active duty will want to flame me for not 'being a good soldier', but I would point out to them that a good soldier does not blindly follow orders, that path leads to violations of the UCMJ and LOAC*.

- edited to include the below -

*For the non-military, UCMJ=Uniform Code of Military Justice, LOAC=Law of Armed Conflict, to violate the second is basically to commit 'war crimes'.

The links included give a short overview of LOAC and a fairly short (as possible) overview of the UCMJ. I would highly recommend reading this for more information on LOAC.

[edit on 10-10-2005 by Jaryn]



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 12:09 PM
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seattlelaw, you are correct that there is no requirement to be familiar with or even read the constitution (sadly).

I hope that my post above will help answer your questions, especially the LOAC information.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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There are actually three types of oaths regarding military service, the previously quoted one is for enlisted personnel:


Enlisted Oath Of Service
I, ___________________________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


The same oath, but for members of the National Guard (Air or Army):


National Guard Oath Of Service
I, _________________________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of ___________________________________ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ________________________ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.


Please note that the reference to the UCMJ has been dropped. This is to facilitate the use of the National Guard as law enforcement, and prevent running afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act.

Finally, there is the oath of a commissioned officer:


Commisioned Officer Oath Of Sevice
I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


Eerily Masonic in wording


Please also note that the President Of The United States is now out of the loop, as are “officers appointed over me.”

With all these oaths, the word “affirm” can be substituted in lieu of “swear,” and “so help me God” is optional.

For some really interesting stuff, check out the Revolutionary Era Oaths here.

Oath Monkeys, not just for swearing anymore…



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Thanks for the post, Jaryn. Your fellow vet's or active military personnel may well flame you for questioning dubious orders. I recall the few guys who stopped Mi Lai (sp?) from continuing were ostracized as well. There is great pressure to conform isn't there? I know that the rest of us (civilian) cannon fodder greatly appreciate it when we hear military personnel (active or not) supporting the principles which the flag stand for rather than the material and colors which symbolize those principles. I will review the links. Thanks again.

I am afraid that our 'leadership' is taking us down a path we will soon regret taking.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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If this discussion has turned to National Guard searching NOLA house-to-house with weapons drawn, let's not forget that part of the constitution guaranteeing the right to bear arms.

When in the heart of NRA land, isn't it best to be prepared to defend yourself from those defending their right to property, not to mention the above mentioned arms. There were folks there bound and determinded NOT to be separated from their property--the citizens refusing to leave--even when ordered.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I wont be concerned of a Police State coming until major steps are taken to disarm the US public. Its happen over and over in history Nazi germany,USSR etc.. and disarming the public is the first step.


Unfortunately, there is an article by the Second Ammendment Foundation, stating that FEMA is confiscating all firearms from the "residents" of a hurricane refuge, happens to be named "FEMA City", near Baton Rouge.

There is also another article that ought to be read, regarding arbitrary gun seizures, without warrent or probable cause.

The SAF and the NRA took this to the Federal court to in order to halt the seizures. Fortunately, as reported in yet another article that the Federal Court did at least grant a temporary restraining order on the gun seizures.

I'm keeping an eye on these stories, as they are very disturbing. As you said, disarming the public is the first step.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Well I am very aware of the Bush family's bloody legacy and yes it does seem like the nwo is upon us. It is not as shocking to me as it may be to the rest of you guys. Why? Growing up poor and black since 1979 has put me in a position to witness what it is like to be herded, counted, and tagged. The police have absolute control and rule with impunity right or wrong. The new face of the nwo isn't raciscm though, it's classism. Now all poor people will be facing what blacks in this country have dealt with for over 400 years. I really don't think that there is anything that we can do to stop this reality from playing out.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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I live in england, but in the paper today it said about plans to tax road users using GPS nav systems. If this was used in a different way you could track anyone, provided they were using a car. So, this would not be great either.

Seems slightly unrelated I know, but I thought i would mention it anyway.



posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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I too believe that the NWO is going to be a Marshal Law type atmosphere. Look how many of our rights have already been taken away from us. Next gun control, curfew, freedom of speech and more. Part of me hope I can live throught these times that are coming fast. Then there is a part of me that wishes for death before doom begins.



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Taking your own life is quitting the game. Worse than giving up on yourself would be the impact it would continue to have in all the lives you were supposed to affect. The thinking human is feeling the heat these days and the pressure is high. But look out your window, (provided you're not in Iraq) no bombs are falling and the air is still relatively clean.

Dedicate yourself to working for change now before the fools in power have things completely in their hands. If you feel like the Bush scene is too big a problem for you to change remember what Tip O'Neil used to say when he was Speaker of the House: "All politics is local." Get on the school board, the parks board, etc. Don't wait to be asked. Contribute. That's what you're here for.


[edit on 7-11-2005 by seattlelaw]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 04:58 AM
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Whats george bush up to this month?
On Nov 10th-11th?
They seem to like numerics and something with the roman calander...

Is he really evil? I mean he seems evil and his dad does to all the ties and crap but how deep do you thing this thing goes? You think skull and bones is involved with any sort of black magic? Er I better start a new thread in the proper area for this one..




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