Police State is coming

Excellent Thread Ufo Believer, really nice, very pertinent. Your comparison of what the National Socialists did and what the Bush Gang have done IS relevant and does hold water. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Wars for protecting the citizens, lies constantly spun and even not spun--just left hanging or lamely pushed aside, blatant brutality and shameless appeals to patriotism while the treasury is looted and the misery piles high... they've taken Orwellianism to heights G.O. didn't imagine.

Look, let's face it: Posse Commitatus is kind of a Paper Tiger isn't it? Just look at the Video that was posted here. Wasn't that rather astonishing? It's one thing to clear people out with heavy persuasion when their lives are in danger; but to break into people's houses with Machine Guns raised and then to force others out of their homes, cuff them and impound their legally registered weapons? Constitutional violation, obvious isn't it? THIS is the time to raise the ruckus. Actually, it's incredible, those people were lawfully defending their homes, not roaming the streets in gangs...

And this Blackwater mercenary thing--where is the mainstream media screeching about this? Pacifica is great but it's a small audience. Why should American citizens take orders from hired thugs? Look, Posse Comitatus is extremely important and must be preserved, even if just on paper. If it's written off completely, the s**t will be over our heads. But we're beyond a rhetorical discussion of its fading--it already is fading. I feel like writing my Senators--but will it have any effects?

Originally posted by cosmic heebie jeebies
Excellent Thread Ufo Believer, really nice, very pertinent. Your comparison of what the National Socialists did and what the Bush Gang have done IS relevant and does hold water. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Wars for protecting the citizens, lies constantly spun and even not spun--just left hanging or lamely pushed aside, blatant brutality and shameless appeals to patriotism while the treasury is looted and the misery piles high... they've taken Orwellianism to heights G.O. didn't imagine.

Look, let's face it: Posse Commitatus is kind of a Paper Tiger isn't it? Just look at the Video that was posted here. Wasn't that rather astonishing? It's one thing to clear people out with heavy persuasion when their lives are in danger; but to break into people's houses with Machine Guns raised and then to force others out of their homes, cuff them and impound their legally registered weapons? Constitutional violation, obvious isn't it? THIS is the time to raise the ruckus. Actually, it's incredible, those people were lawfully defending their homes, not roaming the streets in gangs...

And this Blackwater mercenary thing--where is the mainstream media screeching about this? Pacifica is great but it's a small audience. Why should American citizens take orders from hired thugs? Look, Posse Comitatus is extremely important and must be preserved, even if just on paper. If it's written off completely, the s**t will be over our heads. But we're beyond a rhetorical discussion of its fading--it already is fading. I feel like writing my Senators--but will it have any effects?

Text

Nice post.

We have to believe that contacting our representatives is still important. I have and have received a personal reply from my congressman. They must hear from us in great numbers in order for us to have any hope of persuading them that their interests and ours are one. Without communication from the constituency, the sole voice they hear is that of the lobbyists from the corps. It's too early to give up. Take action. Let's take this democracy out for a spin and see what she can do.

I agree, It could come, to america, or anywhere really. All you need is some big disaster, which is bigger than Katrina/Rita. What you need is a small asteroid/comet, or yellowstone to go BOOM! Or that island in the canaries to subside and hit the east coast of america with a massive tsunami.

Okay Seattlelaw--you've convinced me. I'm going to write both of my Senators this coming week--yes, I'll take an hour to do that. Maybe you and me and 8 others in this Thread will do that. I'll mention the Posse Comitatus, the videos posted here, and the Mercenaries in New Orleans. As an experiment let's see what happens. Let's see if there's even a glimmer of the alarm that we feel in those recent unfoldings.

Originally posted by DCFusion
While I agree that amending the Posse Comitatus act is cause for concern, I don't think it will become the next Enabling Act. For one, the German economy was in dire shape with unemployment at an unbelievable high and a crippling debt that was the result of the ending of WWI.

Also, Hitler's party took steps to ensure that they controlled 2/3rds parliament, which is what was required to pass the enabling Act.

While their are issues with the current U.S. economy and government, the shape of these two are no where near the state that the German economy and government were when the enabling Act was passed.

Additionally, communication at the local level is not very reliable, and local officials will have little, if any, knowledge of how to deal with crippling disasters. In times of National emergencies, there must be a uniform response. The best place for this is the Armed Services.

Perhaps a new division of the Armed Services could be created for responding to National emergencies, with careful consideration taken to ensure that the personnel are trained in dealing with civilians.

that is exactly where we are right now in this country! I agree with u UFO believer!

Originally posted by DCFusion
While I agree that amending the Posse Comitatus act is cause for concern, I don't think it will become the next Enabling Act. For one, the German economy was in dire shape with unemployment at an unbelievable high and a crippling debt that was the result of the ending of WWI.

Also, Hitler's party took steps to ensure that they controlled 2/3rds parliament, which is what was required to pass the enabling Act.

While their are issues with the current U.S. economy and government, the shape of these two are no where near the state that the German economy and government were when the enabling Act was passed.

Additionally, communication at the local level is not very reliable, and local officials will have little, if any, knowledge of how to deal with crippling disasters. In times of National emergencies, there must be a uniform response. The best place for this is the Armed Services.

Perhaps a new division of the Armed Services could be created for responding to National emergencies, with careful consideration taken to ensure that the personnel are trained in dealing with civilians.

that is exactly where we are right now in this country! I agree with u UFO believer!

Even the dead aren't allowed to rest in peace. One of our clerics put a footpath over some graves to make way for a shopping centre and access to his church.

A woman was quite upset as where her parents were buried was right underneath the footpath. Bless her and she had no say in the matter, but just to watch people trasping over them, as if they never existed.

I would have thought the family members would have been notified so that thier loved ones could be buried on the grounds that weren't going to be paved over.

To me, she had no rights to make that choice-the choice was made for her.
My heart goes out to her and I refuse to use that path,or paths to enter, or exit a shopping mall, or shopping centre. If there were no graves underneath, I feel I could do it, but apparently they hadn't long been deceased as she was regularly laying flowers. So sad.

My husband recently lost his mother and if a footpath was placed over his parents graves that would send him mad. The thought of people walking over the people who brought him into this world.

When people are stripped of thier rights-anarchy rises and the police and army move in with a force.

A vicious cycle that never ends just boils over and over again

Alright, I drafted a letter and I'm about to send it off to both my Senators and my Congresswoman.

One of the problems with this site (and the world today) is that things go too fast; once we finish reading one story ten more pop up. But let's concentrate on one thing at a time. Let's write this letter, one letter for all three of them is fine, and send it off. If nothing else, than just an experiment. Sometimes a simple act while maybe not accomplishing much feels good to do--like a ritual. Like casting your "voodoo" out there in the universe.

Not that I think this will have much effect. But just the possibility that these 3 people will read about our concern with the dismemberment of Posse Comitatus and parts of the Constitution, with private militias or "security firms" patrolling our streets, etc... gives me a slight feeling of contribution.

Originally posted by DCFusion

Perhaps a new division of the Armed Services could be created for responding to National emergencies, with careful consideration taken to ensure that the personnel are trained in dealing with civilians.

OMIG!!!! NO!!!

It's already done - that's what NorthCom is ... and it's NG IMO.

Originally posted by cosmic heebie jeebies
Okay Seattlelaw--you've convinced me. I'm going to write both of my Senators this coming week--yes, I'll take an hour to do that.

That's great CHJ! That's the spirit. Let them know you're still alive and kicking. Believe me, if everyone on this site did the same it would have an effect. Until the Repubs have complete control over voting at the state level the pols are still subject to being voted out. They rely on the Tom Delay fundage and other lobbyist bribes to buy air time to get elected. But if they can only reach 50,000 voters with the Delay conspiracy money and ATS constitutes 60,000 voters we can persuade them to take the public's interests into account in their decision making. Apathy is simply approval ultimately. Don't approve and do it loudly! Any others want a piece of this action? As Kesey used to day, you're either on the bus or off the bus. Or, as
Bush bastardized it, your with us or against us. So be with democracy or it will fade away. Not fade away.

Get on the bus people. Pick two issues and write your elected 'representatives' today. You'll feel better about yourself and the whole democracy idea. Without active participation democracy is dead.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by seattlelaw]

IMO (not that anyone gives a flying poo, but... eh.) I say this probably ain't such a bad idea. If you have cops, who are sworn to PROTECT and SERVE deserting their posts to join in the looting or just look out for themselves a la Louisiana and the only way to restore order is by activating some troops, so be it.

If "restricting freedom" means no more drive-bys, robberies, race-motivated bullpoo than I'm all for it.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Dero
If "restricting freedom" means no more drive-bys, robberies, race-motivated bullpoo than I'm all for it.

Congratulations, you are proof that:
1. The terrorists won (they permanently altered the way of life of Americans).
2. The elements in our society/govt that want to create a new totalitarian society where they rule and we are their subjects is winning.

I guess I am just glad that I will be dead when you/your children have to live in the police state that you think is a good thing.

Take note of my signature and really think about it for at least a few seconds....

I'm with Jaryn, who is with the Founding Fathers and the purpose of the Constitution. Go live in the mtns. in isolation like a hermit if you want guarantees of safety at the expense of liberty. If you choose to live in a society of men act like a man and take your freaking chances pal, don't take my freedom (or that of my kids) to satisfy your fear that someone will steal your Landcruiser. You people ARE the problem!

The mistake you people make is that you choose the proferred Gestapo provided it only kills the Jews and the Gypsies but when the Nazis decide you neocons are next for the gas chambers or the torture cells at Gitmo you squeal like pigs. You're lemmings running for the cliff and you have absolutely no idea. I wouldn't care except you're dragging the rest of us (69%) with you. And it pisses me off like you wouldn't freaking believe. GET A LIBERAL EDUCATION PEOPLE! LEARN WHAT IT MEANS (or used to) TO BE AMERICAN.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by seattlelaw]

Steal my landcruiser. Hah. You're funny.

Hell no, I've always been for the military on the streets, you think gangbangers would sling crack on the corners if they new they'd get shot on sight? Doubtful.

If you're not screwing around NOT being American and being an all around oxygen thief, then what are you worried about?

While Mayor Bloomberg struggles to protect the people of his city and Jr. makes a big terrorism speech this week, not much news of this proposed legislation for Defense Intelligence is making national headlines....

Originally posted by UFObeliever

"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures...The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one." - Hitler told the Reichstag.

Bush has had numerous quotes similiar to the one above.

Let's see both Hitler and Bush said they would only use the military in the worst disasters. Hitler lied. Will Bush lie to? Most probly yes.

Request for Domestic Covert Role Is Defended

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 8, 2005; Page A04

As part of the expanding counterterrorism role being taken on by the Pentagon, Defense Intelligence Agency covert operatives need to be able to approach potential sources in the United States without identifying themselves as government agents, George Peirce, the DIA's general counsel, said yesterday.

"This is not about spying on Americans," Peirce said in an interview in which he defended legislative language approved last week by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The provision would grant limited authority for DIA agents to clandestinely collect information about U.S. citizens or emigres in this country to help determine whether they could be recruited as sources of intelligence information.

...

"I'm pretty alarmed" by the proposal, said Timothy Edgar, the American Civil Liberties Union's national security policy counsel, saying it could conceivably be used by Pentagon intelligence officers "as a loophole to attend political or other meetings as part of an initial assessing contact."

...

In the interview, Peirce said the new authority "would not be used very often and only on an exceptional basis." He pointed out there are requirements in the Senate committee language that the intelligence sought be "significant" and that it "cannot be reasonably obtained by overt means." It also dictates that collecting the information may not be undertaken "for the purpose of acquiring information concerning the domestic activities of any U.S. person."

The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one." - Hitler told the Reichstag.

Peirce said the new authority "would not be used very often and only on an exceptional basis."

...sound familiar?

You can't have a police state without the machinery in place for internal intelligence gathering.

What would Sun Tzu say?

Originally posted by SkyFox2
I've been ranting and raving on this topic for some time now. It seems so obvious, the possibility for disaster, the probability even. In fact, I've made several posts warning of this, including offering a scenario in which this could happen. Nobody comments though, for some reason.

Actually, I recall recently being at a nearby park where I heard some kid (must've been 14 or 15) utter the words "America is the greatest nation on the planet because it's a democracy. For the people, by the people." I corrected him, informing him officially the nation is a representative-democracy, or more accurately, a republic. I then explained to him how unofficially and truthfully, it's more likely it's a (two party) dictatorship. I even went as far as to explain to him all the terrible things the United States has done and is doing, that isn't generally reported.

Surprisingly he stood there in silence as I lectured to him about the Patriot Act, US nuclear weapons use in Iraq and Afghanistan, NORTHCOM and FEMA, detainment camps, various civil rights abuse, corruption and secrets, the failure of US Congress to properly execute its role, etc etc. What must've been thirty minutes later, I had given him a good idea as to what was truly going on, what America really was. Can you guess as to what his response was? "...but we get to vote," he said. In shock I paused for a moment, then stated "Yes, we get to vote" followed by turning around and walking away. At that moment I realized you can't stop this when it requires a genuine interest in truth and a mental capacity to understand what you're reading or hearing, and of course, people are programmed from early childhood to believe the United States is the greatest (and fairest) nation on the Earth, and will always remain as such.

I figure we stuck our head through the door which brings us to the Information Age, but never walked through that door. We're in the age of paranoia and misplaced trust. What age comes next, you think? The age of tyranny and oppression, perhaps?

[edit on 9/30/2005 by SkyFox2]

Now you will fit right in with the teachers in (edited province out) teaching L I E S !!

You should really watch the propadanda and lies you spread, because next time you open your trash hole..it may not be a 14 year old boy your talking to and it may be someone who knows how to respond to traitors!

12 12 2012- Dubya is that you? I would know your cute little insane outburst anywhere! Now, go tell Uncle Dick you need your nap. You'll feel better after a good rest....and get your hand off that red button....not till Carl tells you...remember?

Their intent is so clear. Welcome to Amerika where civilians are spyed on. All for the sake of getting "terroist." People can deny it if they want but the fact is it's here. Everyday pushing and pushing taking away constitutional rights.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

By Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball
Newsweek
Updated: 7:02 p.m. ET Oct. 5, 2005
Oct. 5, 2005 - The Pentagon would be granted new powers to conduct undercover intelligence gathering inside the United States—and then withhold any information about it from the public—under a series of little noticed provisions now winding their way through Congress.
Citing in part the need for “greater latitude” in the war on terror, the Senate Intelligence Committee recently approved broad-ranging legislation that gives the Defense Department a long sought and potentially crucial waiver: it would permit its intelligence agents, such as those working for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), to covertly approach and cultivate “U.S. persons” and even recruit them as informants—without disclosing they are doing so on behalf of the U.S. government
.....................
At the same time, the Senate intelligence panel also included in the bill two other potentially controversial amendments—one that would allow the Pentagon and other U.S. intelligence agencies greater access to federal government databases on U.S. citizens, and another granting the DIA new exemptions from disclosing any “operational files” under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).



[edit on 9-10-2005 by UFObeliever]

They already have access to our children's records...

Let's not forget No Child Left Behind. Written into that Act is a sneaky pete clause that give them the right to go into schools to recruit our children.

Learn About No Child Left Behind. ... ARMED FORCES RECRUITER ACCESS TO STUDENTS AND STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION. (a) POLICY- ...
www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg112.html

SEC. 9528. ARMED FORCES RECRUITER ACCESS TO STUDENTS AND STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION.

(a) POLICY-

(1) ACCESS TO STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION- Notwithstanding section 444(a)(5)(B) of the General Education Provisions Act and except as provided in paragraph (2), each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide, on a request made by military recruiters or an institution of higher education, access to secondary school students names, addresses, and telephone listings.

(2) CONSENT- A secondary school student or the parent of the student may request that the student's name, address, and telephone listing described in paragraph (1) not be released without prior written parental consent, and the local educational agency or private school shall notify parents of the option to make a request and shall comply with any request.

(3) SAME ACCESS TO STUDENTS- Each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as is provided generally to post secondary educational institutions or to prospective employers of those students.

Related: leavemychildbehind.org


A cog put in place four years ago.

Originally posted by yeahright
I've not seen this posted here before-
Operation Vampire Killer 2000

I've seen that site quite a while ago, and it makes me feel a bit better reading it.

Some cops are good cops and genuinely care about the people they are to protect and serve. Some are rogue cops who get on power trips.