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Engines thrust power reduction

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posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 02:35 AM
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From your own link.

"Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance during which the airplane was exposed to continual precipitation, the known inherent pitchup characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited experience of the flightcrew in jet transport winter operations."




posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by elpasys

Originally posted by elpasys
The probable cause of this accident was the captain's failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings(!).


See: NTSB Abstract www.ntsb.gov...



posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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elpasys, you do know what anomalous means don't you?

It means one or more of the instruments was giving false readings - not consistent with the other readings from other instruments. That does not necessarily indicate that there is a problem with the engines, more likely the instrumentation.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316

That does not necessarily indicate that there is a problem with the engines, more likely the instrumentation.


The F-14 Tomcat, Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, June 18, 2000.
Due to nucleate boiling of fuel and insufficent climb thrust an F-14 Tomcat fighter pilot and a crewman died on June 18, 2000, when their jet crashed in Willow Grove near a Philadelphia-area neighborhood during an air show. The jet was part of Squadron 101, which is based at Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach, Virginia. The F-14 banked steeply, wavered and plunged into woods about 4:43 p.m. some 100 yards from the Willow Grove Naval Air Station, located about 15 miles north of Philadelphia. Flames and smoke billowed up seconds after the crash, but houses in the area suffered no damage.

Taking part in the second-to-last performance of the day, the Tomcat apparently was demonstrating a landing "wave-off" maneuver, in which a pilot approaching an aircraft carrier is waved off and must then circle and come in for another attempt.
What went wrong? Lack of the climb thrust or instrumentation?
Entropy won.

As it is known, currently accepted second law thermodynamics is based on Clausius work. However, when the former is applied to the analysis of a simple reversible cyclical process, the values obtained for the transformations therein occurring do not agree with those Clausius original analysis derived for the same transformations. This disagreement is a result of analysis based on the entropy function.

See an article:
Jose C. Iniguez. A Revision of Clausius Work on the Second Law.
3. On the Non-Zero Net Value of Carnot's Reversible Cycle. Entropy 1999, 1,
126-137.
[url=http://www.mdpi.org/entropy/[/url]





[edit on 6-10-2005 by elpasys]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by elpasys

See an article:
Jose C. Iniguez. A Revision of Clausius Work on the Second Law.
3. On the Non-Zero Net Value of Carnot's Reversible Cycle. Entropy 1999, 1,
126-137.
www.mdpi.org...



I had a look at it, the paper confirms the validity of Clausius for non-reversible processes, but states a term for adiabatic expansion/compression should be included for reversible processes.

I would have serious doubts that the processes occuring in an aircraft fuel tank are reversible...


As for the Tomcat, what were the findings of the investigation? (assuming there was one
)

[edit on 6-10-2005 by kilcoo316]



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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The Tomcat ALWAYS had engine problems. There were several crashes where the pilots would punch the throttle too fast, and one engine would throttle up, and one would either stall, or it wouldn't throttle up with the other one. If it happened with enough altitude they could recover, but if it was on landing, or a missed landing attempt then Bad Things would happen.

[edit on 10/6/2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Oct, 7 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316


I would have serious doubts that the processes occuring in an aircraft fuel tank are reversible...

All mechanical engines are "heat engines", in which heat is converted to work. Jet engines burn fuel to generate thrust to keep the aircraft flying. Such engines obtain heat from a high-temperature reservoir, derive work from it, and then pass the waste heat on to a low-temperature reservoir (environment). The Second Law of thermodynamics (entropy law) has particular application in the analysis of the operation of heat engines due to entropic production and its influence on work. Such engines operate on "reversible thermodynamic cycles", or steps of thermodynamic processes that operate in a circular fashion.
Also the refueling process occuring in an aircraft fuel tank is reversible.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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NTSB ADVISORY, October 25, 2005

"The NTSB dispatched a team of investigators to Lagos, Nigeria to assist in the investigation of the crash of a Bellview Airlines Boeing 737-200 on Sunday, October 23, 2005. The team also consist of investigators from the aircraft manufacturer, Boeing, and the engine manufacturer, Pratt & Whitney."
More: www.ntsb.gov...



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 04:57 AM
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Airbus's new passenger aircraft A380 model has problems with its engines (thrust reduction?).
Here's a Spiegel - report, October 28, 2005, (in German).
www.spiegel.de...



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 05:29 AM
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Aye thats right... your 'entropy' fantasy causes fuel tank explosions... so what do Airbus do? Replace the engine!



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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Search: entropy

In Airbus.com

No results

No comments!



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 05:02 AM
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On August 16, 2005, West Caribbean Airways flight 708, an MD-82 (registration HK-4374X), crashed near Machiques, Venezuela while on a charter flight from Panama to Martinique. All 160 persons aboard the flight died in the crash.

The following events are recorded on the FDR:
-The accident flight lasted about one hour from takeoff to the end of the recording.
-About 90 seconds after reaching Mach 0.76 (6:49 UTC), the airspeed began to steadily decrease. The horizontal stabilizer moved from about 2 units nose up to about 4 units nose up during this deceleration.
-About 3 minutes and 30 seconds (6:57 UTC) from the end of recording, the Mach number reached about 0.60. The autopilot was then disengaged and the airplane started to descend from FL330.
-As the airplane descended past about FL315, the airspeed continued to decrease and the right engine EPR decreased to about flight idle.
-The airplane descent rate increased after passing through FL310.
-The airspeed reached a minimum of about 150 indicated air speed (IAS) knots at about FL250.
-Right engine EPR stayed at approximately flight idle through the descent and even increased several times, including shortly before the end of the recording.
-Once the airplane started to descend, the horizontal stabilizer moved in increments to about 12 units nose up (which is about full nose up trim) while descending through FL200.

The flight crew states that they had a dual engine flameout.

More: www.ntsb.gov...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Pilot and two associates were killed when their Piper Malibu lost power and crashed shortly after take-off from the Naples (FL) Municipal Airport.

The problem occurred almost immediately after the Malibu's wheels left the runway, as the engine lost power at about 300 ft. AGL. Witnesses observed a gray puff of smoke from the aircraft's exhaust as it banked to the right, and stalled.

"There is no dispute the aircraft lost power. The questions is why."

More: Propwash aero-news, December 01, 2005, www.aero-news.net...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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since you were proven WRONG in your other thread you start this one??



The Airbus A380 is a PROTOTYPE

they don`t build them for other people , they are not in service. anywhere.at all.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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"After the plane took flight, its engine quit. Fuel deprivation caused the plane to lose power."
More: www.oashy.com...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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From your own source it appears that a fuel line ruptured, and caused a misfiring condition in one cylinder of the recently replaced engine, which caused a loss of power.



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Entropy = Cavitation

"Cavitation occurs in pumps, as well as around propellers, or at restrictions in a flowing liquid. Cavitation means that cavities are forming in the liquid being pumped. Cavitation also reduces efficiency dramatically."

See: Cavitation
in Nedeworks Encyclopedia, pedia.nodeworks.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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So now we've gone from entropy to cavitation?



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 02:31 AM
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Entropy in fuel =

the break, break down, break up, friction, cavitation (or nucleate boiling, or fuel weathering), chemical reactions, water production from oil/fuel, rust, die, decay, wear out, fuel tank explosions, aircraft engines thrust power reduction, roll back and/or shut down.



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
From your own source it appears that a fuel line ruptured, and caused a misfiring condition in one cylinder of the recently replaced engine, which caused a loss of power.


But in NTSB docs:
"the engine ceased operating for undetermined reasons"

More: www.ntsb.gov...

Entropy is associated with lack of information and uncertainty. For an observer outside a system (an aircraft) entropy represents the lack of information about the state of the aircraft. For the observer, the maximum entropy of the aircraft means a maximum ignorance about the future of this aircraft.


[edit on 2-12-2005 by elpasys]



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