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Regarding Demonic Possessions In The Modern Day

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posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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In every religion dating back all the way to early Sumerians, Demonic Possession has been a part of society. The one religion that seems to have a strong tie to Demonic Possession is the one we all could of guessed: Christianity, even more specific the Catholic Church.

All underlined words are defined at the bottom of the page.


So I will be focusing primarily on the Christian view of Demonic Possession, due to the fact that it is the one with the most information on the subject matter. Now what I will be truly focusing is the nature of the possession, and if it is actually happening. Most of the scientific community would agree that Demonic Possession is just really a series of mental conditions consisting of, but not limited to: Hysteria,Mania,Psychosis,and Dissociative Identity Disorder. There is now a scientific term for the illness which people believe that they are being possessed by one or more demons monomania.


The belief within the religious community that Demonic Possession is a test from God. Some of the symptoms that a person might express if under Possession include:



Later, in the Middle Ages, a list of symptoms required to confirm demonic possession was carefully prepared:
1. The ability to speak and/or understand one or more unknown languages.

2. The ability to find secret things, read the mind, and divine future happenings.

3. The ability to make physical efforts abnormal for that person.

4. The act of spitting or vomiting every object the demon would have made the person swallow.

Source 1

What is interesting here is that 3/4 of these things can also be granted to you through God via the Holy Spirit. Obviously the on that isn't granted by the Holy Ghost is number four. Now what is possessing these people can be the Devil, or it could be an unknown Demon. Ways of getting rid of a demonic possession is through and exorcism. Although people may believe that belief in Jesus would make them immune to such a thing, this is an incorrect notion. It almost seems that it only happens to Christians. Which brings me to the idea that maybe Demonic Possession is a tool for the Catholic Church to bring people into fear. In my own thoughts without any research and idea that I came up with that in the Early Days of the Catholic Church when people were acting strange like this, and modern day ( in the time period) medicine was trying to find cures for this persons ailments, the church would say it was a Demonic Act to gain more publicity.

What I am trying to gain from this thread, is ideas and thoughts on why Demonic Possession isn't so prevalent now. Is it because the Church has lost much of its power so people are just being drugged, even though they may have a spiritual problem, or is it that Religious Fanatics are just trying to scare people?
Hope this helps for a good discussion below I have provided some tools that may prove useful for those of you who wish to respond. I look forward to the discussion.





Definitions:


-Demonic Possession:
1.Demonic possession is a form of spiritual possession; specifically, the act of one or more demons entering a living or dead human or animal body or an object with the intention of using it for a purpose, normally evil but sometimes instead as a punishment or test. This term is more commonly applied to possession of living persons


-Hysteria:
1.Hysteria is a state of mind, one of unmanageable fear or emotional excesses


-Mania:
1.Mania describes a medical condition characterised by severely elevated mood. Mania is most usually associated with bipolar disorder, where episodes of mania alternate with episodes of depression.

-Psychosis
1.An illness that prevents people from being able to distinguish between the real world and the imaginary world. Symptoms include hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that aren't really there, or delusions), irrational thoughts and fears.

-Dissociative Identity Disorder
a dissociative disorder characterized by the existence in an individual of two or more distinct personalities, each having unique memories, characteristic behavior, and social relationships.

-Exorcism
1.Exorcism is the practice of evicting or destroying demons or other evil spiritual entities which are supposed to have "possessed" (taken control of) a person or a building. The concept is very ancient and is still part of the belief system of many religions.





Sources:

-1.Wikipedia

-2.Answers.com

-3.Dictionary.LaborLawTalk.com




posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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What I am trying to gain from this thread, is ideas and thoughts on why Demonic Possession isn't so prevalent now.


I believe that a large part of this is a lot of cases that occurred in ancient times were not really demonic possessions, but were mentally ill people behaving very strangely. I don't know whether or not I believe in humans being possessed, but I do know a priest who once had to banish an evil spirit from a house because a bunch of kids had gotten together and were screwing about with an ouija board, so I do believe in evil spirits. (the spirit had been throwing objects and trashing the place; the panicked kids fled to another house and phoned the priest from there) I trust this guy totally and although I was not there, I believe what he told me is true.

(kind of odd to see this thread, though, since yesterday I watched Exorcist and Exorcist: The beginning, both for the first time.)



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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Demonic possessions and afflictions are not unheard of today. They were not then, nor are they now, only spiritual problems of the Christians, but in understanding what the goal is of the demonic world, it is logical that the persecution would be directed toward the Christian population.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Demonic possessions and afflictions are not unheard of today. They were not then, nor are they now, only spiritual problems of the Christians, but in understanding what the goal is of the demonic world, it is logical that the persecution would be directed toward the Christian population.


But I think that primarly that these afflictions are pushed into the category of mental illness and is not considered so much of a Demonic Possession. That or the media doesn't put coverage of such things.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by The_Final
Most of the scientific community would agree that Demonic Possession is just really a series of mental conditions consisting of, but not limited to: Hysteria,Mania,Psychosis,and Dissociative Identity Disorder.
...

Although people may believe that belief in Jesus would make them immune to such a thing, this is an incorrect notion. It almost seems that it only happens to Christians.


Odd that you don't see the obvious even though you've stated it indirectly. Demon posession is limited to those who believe in demon posession because it's psychological!

Demon posession is rare today even though the number of Christians is enormous by historical standards. Why? Because even those who believe in demons mostly no longer believe in demon posession. There have been times when demon posession was widely accepted, and so plenty of people were 'posessed by demons'.

Today, it's 'aliens'. Few people believe in demon posession anymore, but lots of people believe in alien abductions, so alien abductions are fairly common. So is channeling and all kinds of similar nonsense.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Odd that you don't see the obvious even though you've stated it indirectly. Demon posession is limited to those who believe in demon posession because it's psychological!



There is no proof that it is entirely psychological, that is why I bring up the subject. Also since there is no proof that there isn't a Demon entering peoples bodies then I still figure it pretty valid. Just because the medical field think they can write it off by other sources doesn't make them correct. Just my opinion though.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by The_Final
There is no proof that it is entirely psychological, that is why I bring up the subject.


But there is proof that it is often psychological, and hence there is no reason to even suspect it is not always psychological. You didn't adress the point I made that it is only those who believe in demon posession who end up getting posessed by demons. You even made the same observation. Are we to believe that demons single out those who believe in demon posession?


Originally posted by The_Final
Also since there is no proof that there isn't a Demon entering peoples bodies then I still figure it pretty valid.


Why would you figure that?

There's no proof that leprechauns aren't real either, or even Santa and the Easter bunny for that matter. Just because we think we know the history of Santa, doesn't prove he isn't real. Maybe someone made up a fake history for him.

Also, we know some parents leave gifts for children, but we don't know that accounts for all the gifts left for children now do we? Are we really to believe parents bring all those gifts!!? Surely Santa must be delivering at least some of them. And waht about the cookies? How could parents eat all those cookies? No, since there is no proof that there isn't a Santa, and since clearly that's the only explanation for all the gifts and cookie eating (even if you could find a few parents who do these things just to discredit Santa), I figure it's still pretty valid.

When it's someone else's myth it just sounds rediculously stupid and obviously false, but when it's our own, it seems perfectly reasonable. This is why it's important to apply standards of evidence uniformly.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
You didn't adress the point I made that it is only those who believe in demon posession who end up getting posessed by demons.

Or they are the only ones that realize what is happening to them? That seems a very reasonable answer to me. Everyone else may brush it off as something mental.



Why would you figure that?

Because unlike Santa and the Easter Bunny, Demons, Spirits or whatever are not something we can measure. Think about it, show me valid proof that there are no spirits. Obviously you can't,because if you could that would have shattered religion as a whole.



Also, we know some parents leave gifts for children, but we don't know that accounts for all the gifts left for children now do we? Are we really to believe parents bring all those gifts!!?.......... I figure it's still pretty valid.

Don't get smart with me and try to make a point which you made very poorly. Because we could test those ideas, by doing experiments in which we remove parents from a house and find: no presents, cookies still there, and whatever else you brought up. But since we can not prove, nor disprove the existance of a spirit we are unable to isolate and expierment with them.




When it's someone else's myth it just sounds rediculously stupid and obviously false, but when it's our own, it seems perfectly reasonable. This is why it's important to apply standards of evidence uniformly.

I have brought it up uniformly, I haven't dismissed science, I am merely defending my view. You have yet to show any proof that science is correct in this subject.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by The_Final
Or they are the only ones that realize what is happening to them? That seems a very reasonable answer to me. Everyone else may brush it off as something mental.


If it is possible to brush it off as something mental, then why shouldn't all such cases be "brushed off"? There's no difference between "demon posession" and non-demon-based mental illnesses from a clinical perspective. "Demon posession" responds to therapy and pharmaceuticals.


Originally posted by The_Final
Because unlike Santa and the Easter Bunny, Demons, Spirits or whatever are not something we can measure.


Santa and the Easter bunny can't be measured either. Just because we know some people fake it, doesn't mean all instances of Santa and the Easter bunny are fake. Prove Santa doesn't exist. You can't.


Originally posted by The_Final
Think about it, show me valid proof that there are no spirits. Obviously you can't,because if you could that would have shattered religion as a whole.


It's impossible to prove the nonexistence of something that doesn't exist.

If your standard is "if you can't disprove it, I believe it", then why don't you accept the existence of leprechauns and fairies?


Originally posted by The_Final
Don't get smart with me and try to make a point which you made very poorly. Because we could test those ideas, by doing experiments in which we remove parents from a house and find: no presents, cookies still there, and whatever else you brought up.


That doesn't prove anything. Santa refuses to be cornered, you should know that. Remember, "he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good". Santa is magic, so he would know that you were performing an experiment and would not cooperate with it. Bacause of that, there's no way to disprove Santa. Therefor he exists. How is this line of thinking substantially different than what you are applying with demons?


Originally posted by The_Final
I have brought it up uniformly, I haven't dismissed science, I am merely defending my view. You have yet to show any proof that science is correct in this subject.


What proof would you accept? You accept demon posession because the existence of demons can't be disproven, yet you don't set the same standard for other fantastic claims, such as Santa, or leprechauns, or fairies, etc. You rightfully laugh at these other myths and even get annoyed when someone claims Santa is real. You assume I'm insincere about Santa simply because it's obvious mythology to you. Yet Santa can't be disproven either.

All you could do is prove that in every case we examine, it is humans who leave the gifts and eat the cookies, just like all science can prove is that for every case examined, "demon posession" is simply mental illness.

But knowing that in each case we examine it is parents/loved ones leaving the gifts and eating the cookies, is there any rationality in saying "Yah, but that doesn't disprove Santa because there might be cases where he leaves the gifts and eats the cookies"? Of course not, and I doubt you would disagree. Yet when your myth is subjected to the same line of reasoning, you make a special exception.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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All underlined words are defined at the bottom of the page.


Except "underlined"


Demonic possession is very real, and is not just limited to those who believe or Christians. It still takes place today, though your assessment is correct; it is not widely recognized or accepted.

As spamandham alluded to, the unaccpetance of it today is due largely to our culture. We live in a time where, if it can't be explained by an experiment, it isn't real. Ghosts don't exist because there's no way to test that they do, so everyone who sees them is either lying or delusional. God doesn't speak with us through the Holy Spirit, the people who think He does are just delusional and trapped in a mental prison created by man to control them.

Sun Tsu and the other authors that put together The Art Of War go into a lot of detail in describing the importance of surprise in a battle. If you can suprise your enemy, many other factors such as fewer numbers or a less trained force can be compensated for. History has shown time and time again the effectiveness of this strategy, where vastly outnumbered forces were able to trample their enemies through surprise. A great example of this is Germany's blitzkrieg attacks in World War 2.

Now imagine being able to attack your enemy without your enemy ever even realized they'd been attacked. Imagine being able to cause a revolution in their country where the country doesn't even realize an enemy force inspired the revolution. This is the play Satan is making today, when many, if not most, dismiss his existence and don't believe there is a spiritual war taking place. Satan had no choice in this battle style -- the battle was already fought and won on the Cross, and his only chance at victory over an individual is to attack without their knowing he is attacking. Satan's greatest victory was to convince us he doesn't exist. Christ said, "resist the devil and he will flee." Yet, if we don't think the devil exists, how can we resist? We can't, and we allow him to establish a stronghold in our lives.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
This is the play Satan is making today, when many, if not most, dismiss his existence and don't believe there is a spiritual war taking place. Satan had no choice in this battle style -- the battle was already fought and won on the Cross, and his only chance at victory over an individual is to attack without their knowing he is attacking. Satan's greatest victory was to convince us he doesn't exist.


Supposedly Satan knows the scriptures, and thus he knows his own fate. He would also then know that all he has to do to put the judgement off forever is to leave mankind alone and let Christianity flourish. Without a great apostacy, the end will never come right?

If Satan knows this, and is actively working to bring it about, then how can you conclude he is not on god's payroll?



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Ahh, but does Satan know this? He knows the scriptures, yes, but if he led a rebellion in Heaven, he obviously thinks much of himself and that he could triumph over God. He knows the prophesy, but he may believe the source, God, may be a little biased. He tried to tempt Christ, knowing that if he was successful, the battle was over and God lost. Now he is trying to fool mankind and bring about the end, because the end is when he comes into his greatest power here on earth. The end is when he'll actually have a chance at crushing the woman before she can crush his head. You forget how blinding pride can be to the obvious and the Truth.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Except "underlined"



Just for you:

Underlined
1.1 : to mark (as a word) with a line underneath

Also what if I told you I believe in Santa, and the Easter Bunny, and whatever creature you mentioned?



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