Canadian Seperation

what do people think here about either Quebec seperating or Alberta/parts of western Canada seperating who thinks that one of the provinces will actually go through with it and in how long?

I wouldn't like it, but I personally don't see it happening, not in the west or Quebec either. We may feel neglected most of the time here in the west but not to the extent that we'd seperate. Would the Canadian government even allow such a thing, I doubt it would.

Yes, I'm all for it, and it is coming.

I bet if Quebec ever did successfully secede and formed their own country or became a department of France the rest of the Canadian provinces would probably end up applying for U.S. statehood.

Alberta is awash with petro-dollars and both Ontario and Quebec have plans for spending it.
The confederation allows a great deal of federalist local authority, so the hard push to share the wealth from Canada's socialists ruling party hasn't been as easy as, say, George Bush's spending of "blue state" money.

Why on earth do you feel that would even be considered? Given the natural resources and canadian economy why on earth would they want to become part of such a poorly run country?

Need examples? Katerina response.... War on Terror. There are a lot more out there... Why would canadians be interested in that kind of mismanagement?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I bet if Quebec ever did successfully secede and formed their own country or became a department of France the rest of the Canadian provinces would probably end up applying for U.S. statehood.

Never happen. Quebec's push for total independence would be exatly that. The whole point of seccession would be to distance themselves from english speaking folks & ideals...not get cozy with them.

brill

[edit on 25-9-2005 by brill]

Originally posted by Realist05
Alberta is awash with petro-dollars and both Ontario and Quebec have plans for spending it.

Good for Albertans. They've earned it and I feel should not have to share their bounty. It's not their fault Ontario/Quebec fiscal matters are down the toilet, that's their problem. Also I'm pretty sure that natural provincial resources are exactly that under provincial say not federal. Screw Ontario and Quebec

brill

I say go for it, they don't have a clue how hard there lives are going to be.

Here is a little joke from civics class: Canada should let them separate. After Quebec become it's own country, Canada should send in it's troops and take it back.

There is always going to be a certain appetite for seperation from these two areas. Quebec has an entire political party whose very existence depends on that. Whenever the topic dies down a little, someone brings it up to score political points.

I think Quebec would be far more likely to seperate than the West, but I honestly don't think it will happen, in my lifetime anyways.

The one thing I have never heard a seperatist Quebecois address is what about the First Nations? You've already seen what happens when you don't take their opinion into consideration. The First Nations know they can get more out of Canada then Quebec. How much of Quebec is under First Nation land claims?

The rest of Canada will not be rushing off to join the US. Sorry dj, you gotta pay for that oil.

And brill is correct, resources are provincial. Nobody was in a rush to help Alberta when they were a have-not province, why should we soak them because they have had some good luck? They pay plenty of federal tax as is.

Joining the U.S. isn't a serious option for any province. Canadians get far more enjoyment out of lecturing Yanks about all the things they do wrong and blaming them for all the world's ills.
The taxpayers would be forced into paying for thier own defence as well, which is currently a freebee courtesy of the south of the border folks.

Originally posted by trust_no_one
what do people think here about either Quebec seperating or Alberta/parts of western Canada seperating who thinks that one of the provinces will actually go through with it and in how long?

I live in Alberta and I don't know a single person who wants us to separate from Canada. Premier Ralph Klein has stated that as long as he is in power, he will never separate our province. I could maybe see Quebec separating, but they have raised the issue more than once in Canadian history, and nothing has come of it yet. (I do know several people here who want to see Quebec out though, hehe)

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I bet if Quebec ever did successfully secede and formed their own country or became a department of France the rest of the Canadian provinces would probably end up applying for U.S. statehood.

(I'll assume djohnsto was being serious when he said this; I'm not sure that he was) From a Canadian perspective, I cannot see this happening anytime in the near future. I think that if Quebec seceded, they would rather be an independent country than simply a province of another country like France. Also, I cannot see any Canadian province deciding to apply for statehood. It just isn't going to happen.

Originally posted by Perfect stranger
Need examples? Katerina response.... War on Terror. There are a lot more out there... Why would canadians be interested in that kind of mismanagement?

And the war on drugs and their agenda for legislating morality through media commentator's, ads, ect...ie/ ruby ridge, waco.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by TrueLies]

If this was to happen, more than likely it would be the Western provinces, such as Alberta, etc., that would seek separation from the eastern half, Quebec, etc. Given the current state of the Canadian military, for which the Buffalo Police Department is equivalent in size and presence, there would be nothing that would stop such from taking place. Be assured, that those Western provinces that would or may seek to join the union/US, would be accepted wholeheartedly. Those that did not, would be hastily recognized as soon as a government was in place.






seekerof

[edit on 25-9-2005 by Seekerof]

I think that if such a thing were to ever happen, it would be a negotiated settlement. No need for the army, we're Canadian. We'll work it out the same way we do everything. We'll hold angry parliamentary hearings about it while dragging our heels.

There are many, many details to be worked out. To list some biggies: currency, passports, federal investment in existing infrastructure (Quebec Hydro) and First Nations issues. They would also lose thousands of jobs when federal offices moved out of province.

The First Nations are the most serious challenge to Quebec seperation, one that is never talked about.

Ratified Comprehensive Land Claim Agreements
.....

Section 1: James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement: from the shores of James Bay and Hudson Bay to Labrador, covering approximately 50 percent of Quebec's land mass, mainly the northern portion of the province.

PN-28U: Comprehensive Land Claim Agreements

Quebec gains financially from Confederation and while France may initially support them, the truth is the French think people from Quebec aren't 'real french'. I'm not certain how long they could be counted on.

I just think there are a few too many differences on big issues for Canadian provinces to join the US. Gay marriage, the war on drugs, national healthcare to name just a few. Healthcare being the biggie. It is consistently the number one concern of voters.

Much of the Western seperatism talk you hear is certain people taking a page out of Quebec's book. If it works for them, maybe it will work for us....

Originally posted by Perfect stranger

Why on earth do you feel that would even be considered? Given the natural resources and canadian economy why on earth would they want to become part of such a poorly run country?

Need examples? Katerina response.... War on Terror. There are a lot more out there... Why would canadians be interested in that kind of mismanagement?

Of course, why would Canadians be interested in becoming part of a poorly managed country like the United States. Why would they possibly want to do that when Canadians are perfectly capable of have a country that they can mismanage themselves?

Look at the situation Canadians are in....the medical system is in shambles. They build hospitals but don't have the doctors to staff them, they elect leaders who sell out the resources, industry and people to the U.S., Heck, the Canadian government is every bit as mismanaged as the U.S. or, for that matter, any other country in the world. Canada buys scrap submarines while needed helicopters for rescue purposes are purchased at twice the price that they are worth. Our Canadian politicians take and give bribes at levels that are at par with the crooked politicians of any nation. Canada won't take a back seat to anyone in this department. Canadians appropriate land from the First Nation people for a "short time" and then, when the people of the First Nations try to get their land back, the government shoots them! (see the shooting of Dudley George in Ipperwash on Google). Canadians send troops to Afghanistan and they are poorly equipped, understaffed and improperly outfitted. It's endless.
But it's clear that Canada doesn't need to join the U.S. when Canada can be every bit as incompetent a nation as the next.

Seperation sounds good at first in some situations, then you begin to realize the nightmare you would go through when you are in the new formed area.

Everything must change ! everything ! what a nightmare.

But I do hate much of everything that quebec does. Why must they get any special treatment?

Its bad enough I have to read french labels on everything when I dont even know a french speaking person.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Given the current state of the Canadian military, for which the Buffalo Police Department is equivalent in size and presence, there would be nothing that would stop such from taking place.

That's typical U.S. rhetoric and nonsense. Here's a thought. Maybe just maybe a peaceful, negotiated and democractic procedure could allow for secession. Sometimes it isn't about using force.

brill

Living in western Canada myself, it's funny how i've never heard this talk about the western half of Canada wanting to seperate. Maybe their are a handfull of people who talk about wanting that, but i think the large majority want to stay.

If any province were to seperate, it would probably be Quebec and not Alberta. But I don't think it will ever happen anyway, it's all too silly and pointless to seperate in my opinion. I'd think it would cause a lot more problems then it would solve.

But,

Canada is a massive country brimming with natural resources that will support this nation far into the future. Global warming will open up our north for further exploitation and our future is rosey.

French is a dying language all over the world, so Quebec will be a non-issue in the future as more of their children use English to get on-line and communicate with the rest of the world. Hell, almost every person in Quebec already speaks both languages.(English will become the language of the world) And Quebec already takes the lions share of federal money, and would soon become the "poor relations" without the rest of Canada.

Alberta needs the rest of Canada as much as Canada needs Alberta. They have no intention of going it on their own. Sure they have a very valuable commodity that will last for many years, but it won't last forever.

Canada will stay together because every Province has it's strengths and weaknesses, and we're stronger as a whole.

The only scenerio I see in the future would be something similar to Europe. One North America, one currency, and no borders.