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"Don't ask, don't tell" on hold for soldiers in Iraq

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posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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Secretly and without consultation with the U.S. Congress, the U.S. military has suspended, in part, its ban on openly gay soldiers, an official military spokesperson has said. But after these soldiers have risked life and limb for their country, the military retains the right to kick them out when they get home.

"The bottom line is, some people are using sexual orientation to avoid deployment. So in this case, with the Reserve and Guard forces, if a soldier 'tells,' they still have to go to war, and the homosexual issue is postponed until they return to the U.S. and the unit is demobilized," said Kim Waldron of the U.S. Army Forces Command at Fort McPherson, as quoted in a Washington Blade story published Friday.
Advocate


Being gay is good enough to deploy to war, but not good enough to stay in the military once you return? What about unit cohesion, morale, showers, and all of the other arguments against gays in the military?

In a positive light, maybe in Iraq people will see gay soldiers fighting valiantly, and realize that it really is a non-issue.

If people are saying that they are gay to avoid combat in Iraq, how can you prove that someone is gay or not? And if they are good enough to deploy, then they are good enough to stay. When they return will it be, "Here are your medals, now get out!"




posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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Here we discourage from gays marrying yet they can die for our country. Go figure. Wondering of this is a step forward or backward for gays. Damn hypocrits.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by curme
Being gay is good enough to deploy to war, but not good enough to stay in the military once you return? What about unit cohesion, morale, showers, and all of the other arguments against gays in the military?

/looks to last quote


In a positive light, maybe in Iraq people will see gay soldiers fighting valiantly, and realize that it really is a non-issue.


People who dont have a problem with gays in the military should have no problem with every Restaurant, Store, Buisiness ect, having only 1 bathroom for males and females, See how you like it when some old lady is watching you free willy, or some creep in the same bathroom with your little girl getting off..

Its the same thing as what you support.


If people are saying that they are gay to avoid combat in Iraq, how can you prove that someone is gay or not?


You pretty much answered your own question, They cant distinguish between whos realy gay and whos lieing just to get out of combat, so they are keeping them all over there until they are back, if they still proclaim to be gay when the chance of going to combat is not existent, then theres the proof, and they are gone.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by C0le
People who dont have a problem with gays in the military should have no problem with every Restaurant, Store, Buisiness ect, having only 1 bathroom for males and females, See how you like it when some old lady is watching you free willy, or some creep in the same bathroom with your little girl getting off..


Just for the record, I don't have a problem with unisex bathrooms, and I've been in quite a few, albeit, all in bars. As for little old ladys, obviously you've never been to Asia. When the little old lady's got to clean, they clean. No matter what you may be doing at the time.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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yuck, unisex bathrooms? i dont want to go the restroom and see bloody tampons and blood on the toilet seat etc, thats sick, im really surprised women even use public restrooms.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rikimaru
yuck, unisex bathrooms? i dont want to go the restroom and see bloody tampons and blood on the toilet seat etc, thats sick, im really surprised women even use public restrooms.


I guess thats your opinion of what female toilets are like? get real. Unisex toilets are a part of life in this day and age.

The statement you made is ludicrous.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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A unisex bathroom is alittle different from showering with people. Would the same people that are ok with unisex bathroom be ok with Unisex showers at the Gym or in school?



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Actually, at my local sports center there is 'communal' changing rooms and showers. OK, the showers have curtains across them , but they are still open for anyone to use, female or male.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Paris has Unisex Bathrooms and that's true about the little old ladies in asia.....it's like a part of life....better not have stage fright


IMO, if someone has been in the military for a couple years and they just happen to let thier command know they are gay just before an Iraq deployment
...seems a little odd don't ya think...maybe they're trying to get out of deployment.
If they can provide enough proof to support thier "claim" then go ahead and let them out, what kind of discharge is another matter. But if they cannot prove that they are gay...then they should go on deploymant or face court-martial just like any other troop.

EDIT: Im down for unisex showers
, Great idea, IMPO

[edit on 25/9/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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I wonder if people are just saying they're gay to get out of being deployed...I mean they don't make you prove it to them do they?



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I wonder if people are just saying they're gay to get out of being deployed...I mean they don't make you prove it to them do they?


No, but they should have to prove it....just so people cannot use the "gay" card as an excuse to bail out on deployments.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
No, but they should have to prove it....just so people cannot use the "gay" card as an excuse to bail out on deployments.


I bet there are some guys who'd, if really so scared of going to Iraq, bring in a gay hooker and have sex with him in front of his C.O. even if they're completely straight.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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I bet there are some guys who'd, if really so scared of going to Iraq, bring in a gay hooker and have sex with him in front of his C.O. even if they're completely straight.


But....in essence, that would not be COMPLETELY straight. There would have to be some gayness in order to do that.

[edit on 25/9/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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"The bottom line is, some people are using sexual orientation to avoid deployment.


Yeah, right. That's why they're changing it. It doesn't have anything to do with the low enlistment numbers and the idea that we need more warm bodies in Iraq.

When the military wanted to discriminate against gay people, they made the "Dont ask, don't tell" policy. Now that they need every warm body they can get over there, they're willing to change the rules of the game. Just when it's convenient to them.

Sickening, really. They never should have separated them out in the first place.

I just read the rest of the responses in this thread. :shk: I'll just respond to the original post.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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For the record, I think the don't ask don't tell policy is stupid and they should just let gays into the military. Any guy who goes to the gym has showered with gay guys...I think in Manhattan actually most of them are gay



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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What sickens me are the cowards who pretend to be gay to get out of deployment. Its a good thing the military is letting them serve until their deployment is over.
Obviously they weren't gay when they signed up to get the money benefits



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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Just another contradiction from the US government. Nothing new there.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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What exactly are you afraid of Johnsto, sporty, etc.? You seem petrified of being in a changeroom with a gay man. Is it that you are afraid they might overpower and rape you? Are you afraid they might look at your genitals?

The fact that you seem so afraid of gay people is possibly saying something about your own comfort in your masculinity. This is the military, not prison.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by cargo
What exactly are you afraid of Johnsto, sporty, etc.? You seem petrified of being in a changeroom with a gay man. Is it that you are afraid they might overpower and rape you? Are you afraid they might look at your genitals?

The fact that you seem so afraid of gay people is possibly saying something about your own comfort in your masculinity. This is the military, not prison.

Umm, Cargo..dude, what the hell are you talkng about?!?!? For starters...don't ever incinuate anything about me, how about you be an adult and just say it, or in this case...just type it.

Second, to clarify what I meant.......


if someone has been in the military for a couple years and they just happen to let thier command know they are gay just before an Iraq deployment
...seems a little odd don't ya think...maybe they're trying to get out of deployment.


That means, IMO, that if airman whoever after 3 years of service is slated to go to Iraq and then suddenly he becomes gay or says he's gay.....there might be a chance he is faking the funk in order to NOT go to Iraq....Seems ligical.,,don't be naive, at least check out his story.



If they can provide enough proof to support thier "claim" then go ahead and let them out, what kind of discharge is another matter. But if they cannot prove that they are gay...then they should go on deploymant or face court-martial just like any other troop.

Obviously, for the most part, when someone addresses thier command stating to be gay...they also want to get out. So Im saying, if they can prove it...then let them have thier wish...let them out of the military. If it turns out that they are lying and they are NOT gay, but straight...then they should be court-martialed......I know we've all heard it before, but they did sign the contract.

I'm simply talking about what I think should be done if this happens upon finding out that a unit is about to be deployed.



No, but they should have to prove it....just so people cannot use the "gay" card as an excuse to bail out on deployments.

And believe it or not, people do say they are gay so they can ditch deployments to Iraq......so I think they should have to prove it, it's not that hard really...sometimes it's known, but most people (including myself) really don't care and it's not gonna bother me if the guy down the hall likes men....really, who care's?

Ive only had one person, a corpsmen in the navy assigned to my unit, tell me he was gay. It was obvious, we all knew it....and he was treated the same as all the other Marines in the unit, yeah there was some table-talk....whenever a new guy came along he would ask "he is so-n-so gay"...we would be like "I dunno", but that's about it....no gay bashing or trash talking, what he does in his bed is for him...not the rest of the world.
Ofcourse I know many that are gay (at least I think) but he's the only one that ever told me...and BTW, he's still on active duty...I did'nt go rat him out like Cargo would have you all believe. I don't agree with the lifestyle, I think it's gross, IMO....but that does not mean I hate on people that are gay. I treat just like any other.

And djohnsto77 also said:


For the record, I think the don't ask don't tell policy is stupid and they should just let gays into the military. Any guy who goes to the gym has showered with gay guys...I think in Manhattan actually most of them are gay


How is that attacking gays? Seems like he, just like myself, has no problem with gays in the military. And yeah, for the record, I think that someone would have to be gay in order to....


I bet there are some guys who'd, if really so scared of going to Iraq, bring in a gay hooker and have sex with him in front of his C.O. even if they're completely straight.


So what gives Cargo?!?!....are you looking for a digital brawl, cos you're not gonna get one here. feelin lonely so ya gotta pick on someone?? (don't answer that)



The fact that you seem so afraid of gay people

how is that a fact?

sporty


[edit on 25/9/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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Obviously cargo either didn't read or was incapable of understanding our posts...either that or he's just a troll


[edit on 9/25/2005 by djohnsto77]




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