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Let's Kill the Falsely Framed Partisan Stereotypes Here

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posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Sadly, one of the greatest achievements in the orchestrated "divide" is the pervasive perception that while your side is "diverse" the other guys are homogeneous and best painted with broad brush strokes. I personally take great pains to at least attempt to use the right labels when speaking of the agendas of segments and sub-segments of this or that "side" but am sure the nuances of that may be lost at times.

So here's everyone's chance to set the record straight. While we tend to do a pretty good job on ATS of breaking down barriers, illuminating popular divergent examples from more "homogeneous" partisan communities could be helpful. And I welcome such input from communists, socialists, liberals, progressives, moderates, libertarians, traditional conservatives, neocons and "Freepers" alike.

One thing I've noticed over time that may surprise some people is on-going polling of the "liberal community" (with a sample now exceeding 10,000) consistently chooses Hillary Clinton dead last as choice for President. She's simply too conservative for "liberals." They still want Wesley Clarke.

Also, progressives aren't huge fans of Cindy Sheehan or factions of the Anti-War "movement" at all. In fact, one of the highest rated comments I've ever seen in a progressive community like dKos was this recent quip:

ANSWER is a pinko #tard front!

And that's hardly an isolated incident. That may surprise many that spend their time in another community devoting to painting people that think Bush misled us to war or wish we had a timetable for troop withdrawl as anti-american or "commies."

And though I do frequently scan communities like FR (and others) for what I would expect to be a normal occasional divergence like "Pat Robertson needs to shut the hell up and quit making us look bad" I'm having a hard time finding it. It doesn't mean it's not there, it's just not fun for me to read those sites. So chime in with examples, or your opinion on what I'm getting at here.




posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly (does that put me a into a category?) and I’m not sure what you want in the way of responses. But I’ll give it a go.

Anyway, from the dkos site:



If you want to break down the coalition of people against the war, turning this into a hate the Jews/Israel party is an easy way to do it. So, I suggest this: back off other issues, and concentrate on the one issue that unites us, and unites this community with the majority of the American people: The Iraq War was A Mistake, and the US should pull out as fast as possible. As a subsidiary to this: George W. Bush is responsible for the biggest foreign policy blunder (i.e. Iraq) since at least Vietnam, and should be held accountable. Going beyond this to other pet issues of the so-called far-left is going to break this coalition down and kill the common cause.

Quote edited for offensive language. Emphasis added.

I do support the anti-Iraq war movement because of that in bold above. I agree that they are doing themselves a disservice by making it about Cindy Sheehan, her son, Israel, Bush and a meeting. If it’s an Anti-War movement, then it should be about ending the war. They could do with some focus. I do support the overall goal, though not everything they do or every tactic they employ. It does seem like a scattered movement to me.

I am NOT however ‘anti-war’. I am not a ‘peacenik’. I believe war can be a necessary action. I don’t claim a political party, but when I’ve taken those tests on the Internet, I usually come out Libertarian because of my beliefs in personal freedoms, small government and taking care of our country before sticking our nose into others.

Comprehensive Political Ideology Test

I must admit that I am somewhat guilty of painting what I perceive as the ‘other side’ with much too wide a brush. In the dark recesses of my mind, I’m ashamed to admit that Bush supporter = Iraq war supporter = Conservative = Righteous Christian = Anti-choice = Anti gay = Pro-Patriot Act = Angry Liberal-hater and name-spewer. In my more lucid moments, I’m positive that isn’t true. I shall undertake the challenge to remain more lucid more of the time.

Thank you for this thread, RANT and I hope it can help us break down the stereotypes that we all have about people who see things differently than we do. It has brought some awareness to me and made me think.

< BH trots off to change her divisive signature to something more representative of her own beliefs. >



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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One of Bush's greatest assets is that his most outspoken critics are, in general, lunatics (Cindy Sheehan) and go way too far. This does contribute to this effect, and even though Bush's popularity numbers have fallen, the Democrats haven't really been able to gain any traction for themselves out of it. People seem to be disgusted by everyone.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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Let's Kill the Falsely Framed Partisan Stereotypes Here.


I support Bush.

I am not a redneck.
I do not own a shotgun.
I am not blind, ignorant, stupid, or illiterate.
I am not racist.
I am not sexist.
I don't drive a pick-up truck.
I think we should be looking for alternate fuel sources.
I don't wish to bomb anyone who doesn't agree with me.

Did I help?



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
One of Bush's greatest assets is that his most outspoken critics are, in general, lunatics (Cindy Sheehan) and go way too far. This does contribute to this effect, and even though Bush's popularity numbers have fallen, the Democrats haven't really been able to gain any traction for themselves out of it. People seem to be disgusted by everyone.


You make a good point. I'm starting to hear a lot of "Bush is an idiot, but those people who are protesting him are a lot worse".

Who knows. Maybe a change is in the wind?



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Herman
Did I help?


Of course.


I think we knew all that, but nice to have confirmation.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Let's Kill the Falsely Framed Partisan Stereotypes Here.


I oppose Bush.

I am not a peacenik.
I do own a shotgun, hunting bows, swords and an attack dog.
I am not blind, elitetist, or suffer from utopian myopia.
I am on the Board of two companies.
I am military veteran.
I own a company.
I think we should put certain people to death.
I do want to shape the world in America's image ( the pristine image we've not achieved yet, though).

Did I help?



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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1) I'm a Bush supporter
2) I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan

I think that's enough contradictory information



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
1) I'm a Bush supporter
2) I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan

I think that's enough contradictory information


I can hardly wrap my mind around it!


To clarify:
I am not a Bush supporter
I am against the war in Iraq, but support the ousting of Saddam
I am not anti-war
I support the Constitution
I think we should send all illegal aliens back home and seriously tighten the borders
I believe that the second amendment affords every American to own (practically) whatever firearm they want
I think the welfare system should be overhauled



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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I also don't mind moderates.

Then again, I also portray a lot of the stereotypes.


But that's for another thread, isn't it?



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 03:17 AM
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This whole conversation is essential for understanding of the roots of our problems.

While the "divide" is almost surely contrived, it begs the question of "If we are fighting over ideological sterotypes and selective use of the same facts, then why are the Republicans and Democrats seeming to let the huge bulk of BOTH their crimes (literally) go without a peep."

It's not how they are different that scares me, but how they are the same.

Both sides are acting like buffoons if you ask me, considering their

1) illogical posturing.

2) pointing out the flaws of the opposition (which are there) while ignoring the flaws of their own side (which is equally there).

3) Debate and "controversy" over NOTHING.

But the list goes on and on for days. If only get to choose between garbage and garbage, I'll just abstain.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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I agree Jethro. The only way that 'we the people' are going to take the country out of the hands of the criminals is to make a third choice. We are giong to have to come together as a people and recognize that our 'enemy' is not the other side, but the Reps and Dems in power!

In fact, the fighting we do with each other is what keeps them in power and they know that! If they can keep us polarized with their posturing and debate, then we automatically choose sides, in hopes of being aligned with the 'winner'. Unfortunately, no matter which one of them wins, we, the people, lose!



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
This whole conversation is essential for understanding of the roots of our problems.


It is, but so's understanding the stereotype you represent. Which is probably the most prevalent one on ATS. That being anyone that actually agrees with the Democrat or Republican platforms on issues must be illogical or simply posturing.

I actually like the Democratic platforms. More in 2004 than probably ever before. When I don't like something you know it. But it's not what the Republicans (or Libertarians for that matter) paint it to be at all.

So while many "conservatives" may hold their nose and vote Republican disagreeing with 50% or more of what they're voting for some do agree 150%. I personally think that's less of a problem for what you might call "liberals" (or even moderates) lately that seem pretty in step with 90% or more of Democratic platforms, but that's just among smart, well read, issue driven people I know.

I think most people that vote against Democrats now (while holding their nose to vote for Republicans) are probably voting against Democrats they knew in the 70's. Or just against the image of Democrats they get in Church or on FoxNews. Single issue driven polling shows time and again America overwhelming agrees with the Democratic platform. It's a populist platform that responds to and represents the people (not God and multinational corporations) so that shouldn't be surprising.

Some days I'm liberal, some progressive, some moderate and on many more things than Bush I'm conservative. But it all fits quite nicely and logically in the Democratic Platform for me. But then again, I read it. Most Americans didn't. And it's just so hip to be contrary now, I understand the inclination to not vote or write in Daffy Duck or Mickey Badnarick (in that order).

But make no mistake the Republican machine that owns the debate, controls the channels and warps the message on a daily basis is the wellhead of that phenomenon. I don't care if you look at today or any point in time since Nixon, the message has been "look, they're just as bad as us."

And, like most people, you bought it. The DNC wants voter turn out, Americans heard and to represent everyone with logical, evolving, progressive platforms that speak directly to current issues, pressing concerns and the law of the land. The RNC would like to suppress and confuse all of the above by summarizing that on a bumper sticker as "flip flop."

It's not my fault most Americans are stupid. But I have nothing to apologize for because I like the Democratic platform.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by RANT:
And, like most people, you bought it. The DNC wants voter turn out, Americans heard and to represent everyone with logical, evolving, progressive platforms that speak directly to current issues, pressing concerns and the law of the land. The RNC would like to suppress and confuse all of the above by summarizing that on a bumper sticker as "flip flop."

It's not my fault most Americans are stupid. But I have nothing to apologize for because I like the Democratic platform.




THAT cracked me up! Look I am posting on PTS...

RANT, you know I love ya, but talk about "Buying" something(!)... That statement is a work of art commissioned by the DNC and performed by a loyal member.


While my own politics are pretty simple, I read ALL the available platforms, pull out the candidates that represent the best of those platforms, regardless of the party that candidate happens to be funded by. Make no mistake, the US Party's (all of them) primary function is FUNDING.

That's an obvious necessity and should be a very workable, honorable and HONEST system. You know what? On the state and local level (Louisiana excluded) it pretty much is.

The problem started on the Federal level, IMHO, when the "old money" actually saw genuine challenges to their tidy operation of running the U.S. exactly the way they wanted it run. I can't put an accurate date on that but I'll toss out the 1840's for a near miss.


To think that the old money doesn't run this country is to think night is day. The GOOD news is they run less and less every year. Well most years anyway.

This leads us to our current "two Party" system. Naturally they will have platforms designed to bring the thinking man in the door. Just not too far in the door. The way you keep the unwashed, nouveau- money, working class, et-al non old money types OUTSIDE the Parlor of Power is with diversion. Create a cause the thoughtful will rally behind, create a divisive appearence of patriotism (with us or against us) for the more action oriented, create a "cruel and unusual" for the "touchy feely" types.

More GOOD NEWS, that is failing them little by little too each year/election. I am not saying the parties are worthless shams and fronts completely, they do have outstanding capabilities and very good moments, at the local and state level. The Federal level of the Executive, Legislative and even Judicial branches are NOTHING more than deal making concerns that usually hold up the "Old Money's" interests.


EDIT to add:

I believe Your "false stereotype" topic is SPOT ON RANT...

I was a Bush supporter, not one now
I DO drive a Pick Up
I own guns
I believe what a woman does with her body is HER business, but I will NOT pay for it
I believe you make your OWN destiny and way in life so quit bitching about it and fix it if you don't like it
I believe if someone is genuinely incapable of the above we MUST take care of them
Several other things too but I am tired of typing...


Springer...





[edit on 9-27-2005 by Springer]



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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I’m a half-Russian, Half-Native America currently living in the United Kingdom [Place of birth].
I am attaining a Law and Politics degree, as well as having an exceptionally high-level of education.
I believe in abortion.
I believe in peoples right to own weapons.
I am a neo-socialist.
I am against the War on Terror.
I am for the United Nation’s gaining more power and ability to remove dictators.
I am against Corporate Dominance of Politics.
I believe in Direct Democracy.
I believe in Public Services such as health care, transport, etc and that they should be paid for by the state through taxation depending on income bracket.
I believe in level taxation.
I believe in the rights for people to own their own property.
I believe in 100% inheritance tax.
I believe in the ability for all to gain a free education.
I believe we should not punish those who fail.
I believe in capital punishment.
I believe in rehabilitation.
I believe in work-camps.
I believe murders should be used to benefit society and be used to save lives after they have taken them.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Springer


THAT cracked me up! Look I am posting on PTS...

RANT, you know I love ya, but talk about "Buying" something(!)... That statement is a work of art commissioned by the DNC and performed by a loyal member.


And I do it for free. But really that's how I feel.

And talking about breaking down stereotypes, that's one. I haven't been tricked into my understanding of the Constitution, the south, American history, or respect for great Democratic initiatives, which are behind basically everything good the past century from social security to Appalachian hillbillies getting electricity.

And if someone really, really, really likes the Republican platform, that's fine too. I disagree with it personally. I think it's ideological, illogical, unproven, impractical and devoid of substance, but that certainly has it's place and appeals to many people too.


These checklists are good though.


I'll have to give mine some more thought. Suffice it to say for now I'm not your father's Democrat. I'm your great, great grandfather's.

This "conservative" stuff is just too new for my tastes.


[edit on 27-9-2005 by RANT]



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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I am not a Bush supporter
I am against the war in Iraq
I support the Constitution
I think we should send all illegal aliens back home and seriously tighten the borders
I believe that the second amendment affords every American to own (practically) whatever firearm they want
I think the welfare system should be overhauled to help more people
I drive a pick up truck
I am a female



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by eeper69
I am not a Bush supporter
I am against the war in Iraq
I support the Constitution
I think we should send all illegal aliens back home and seriously tighten the borders
I believe that the second amendment affords every American to own (practically) whatever firearm they want
I think the welfare system should be overhauled to help more people
I drive a pick up truck
I am a female


I also drive a (small) pick-up (but I just got a new RAV4) and I'm female, too!



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by eeper69
I am not a Bush supporter
I am against the war in Iraq
I support the Constitution
I think we should send all illegal aliens back home and seriously tighten the borders
I believe that the second amendment affords every American to own (practically) whatever firearm they want
I think the welfare system should be overhauled to help more people
I drive a pick up truck
I am a female


I also drive a (small) pick-up (but I just got a new RAV4) and I'm female, too!
Cool! I have a small pick up too. It's a Mazda B-2500. I like it because I can see above small cars and I can haul stuff home from garage sales



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
You make a good point. I'm starting to hear a lot of "Bush is an idiot, but those people who are protesting him are a lot worse".

Who knows. Maybe a change is in the wind?


Well, that's a sweeping generalization if i've ever heard one.
ps: I've been hearing that Bush is an idiot since 2000, that's nothing new.

I thought this thread was about killing the falsely framed partisan stereotypes??

So to answer your above posts questions about did you help?
no, b/c your still doing it.



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