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Abu Gharib: Mistreatment Was Routine, Soldiers Say

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posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Two soldiers and an officer with the Army's 82nd Airborne Division have told a human rights organization of systemic detainee abuse and human rights violations at U.S. bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, recounting beatings, forced physical exertion and psychological torture of prisoners, the group said.



A 30-page report by Human Rights Watch describes an Army captain's 17-month effort to gain clear understanding of how U.S. soldiers were supposed to treat detainees, and depicts his frustration with what he saw as widespread abuse that the military's leadership failed to address. The Army officer made clear that he believes low-ranking soldiers have been held responsible for abuse to cover for officers who condoned it.

The report does not identify the two sergeants and a captain who gave the accounts, although Capt. Ian Fishback has presented some of his allegations in a letter to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).

Their statements included vivid allegations of violence against detainees held at Forward Operating Base Mercury, outside Fallujah, shortly before the notorious abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison began. The soldiers described incidents similar to those reported in other parts of Iraq -- such as putting detainees in stress positions, exercising them to the point of total exhaustion, and sleep deprivation.

"Some days we would just get bored so we would have everyone sit in a corner and then make them get in a pyramid," an unidentified sergeant who worked at the base from August 2003 to April 2004 told Human Rights Watch. "This was before Abu Ghraib but just like it. We did that for amusement."

In addition to talking to Human Rights Watch, Fishback has made his concerns known in a series of signed letters and memos sent to Capitol Hill. Fishback, a West Point graduate who has served in Afghanistan and Iraq, wrote that no one in his chain of command has been able to give him a clear explanation of what humane treatment is, and he believes that US soldiers have regularly violated the Geneva Conventions by torturing detainees and taking family members hostage as a means of coercion.

"Despite my efforts, I have been unable to get clear, consistent answers from my leadership about what constitutes lawful and humane treatment of detainees," Fishback wrote in a Sept. 16 letter to McCain, a member of the Armed Services Committee and a former prisoner of war in Vietnam. "I am certain that this confusion contributed to a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage-taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment." Fishback, reached by telephone yesterday, declined to comment.

Source:
Washington Post

More Truth about Abuses come out Day after Day.

Obviously the Soliders that were ORDERED to perform such Abuses can not hold it in any longer: this time soldiers from US Army's 82nd Airborne Division have told a human rights organization of systemic detainee abuse and human rights violations at U.S. bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, recounting beatings, forced physical exertion and psychological torture of prisoners.

More about in this Human Rights Watch Report:

Leadership Failure: Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division

[edit on 24/9/05 by Souljah]




posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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It's older news but, that female General took a lot of the heat for I feel. Yes certain Soldiers did but that Lady, seems to me, took a lot..mayhap's just due to not knowing what was going on under her command.

But I can really believe that either. She reported it to that Lt General Remiraz or whatever his name was. I understood at that time, he signed an order that both the CIA and the Army Intelligence people had full control of the methods of interegation.

I'm not sure exactly what the reality of it all was, but I do feel tha tBrig Gen Lady was not in total control over the prison and even protested to Lt Gen Remiraz or whatever his name is, at that time.

Dallas

EDIT: the usual terrible spelling

[edit on 24-9-2005 by Dallas]



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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This Article is dated Today:

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 24, 2005; Page A01


I think you ment some Older News about Abu Gharib and Guantanamo Abuses, because there SURE is a Long List of those, so I guess that confuzed you a little bit.

So you are saying that these "General Lady" Ordered them and that these Abuses were going on under Her Command.

I ask you this: who is the Supreme Commander of Armed Forces and of all Generals?

I think that the Rabbit Hole goes Deeper....



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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No sir, I said she did not know about the abuse but complained to Lt Gen Remiraz (Sp?) her Boss, she felt CIA and Army Intel may be doing somethings.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Chief of Staff full General Meyers.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas
No sir, I said she did not know about the abuse but complained to Lt Gen Remiraz (Sp?) her Boss, she felt CIA and Army Intel may be doing somethings.

OK - but who is in charge of CIA and US Army Intel?

Who Orders them?



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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I can only guess and you seem like a facts guy..but I'll give my guess anyway CIA - Director (then) George Tenant. Army Intel- No Idea. But I suppose we are headed higher above, are we not?

Dallas



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas
I can only guess and you seem like a facts guy..but I'll give my guess anyway CIA - Director (then) George Tenant. Army Intel- No Idea. But I suppose we are headed higher above, are we not?

I am prepared to Say that Donald had something to do with it also - along with the enitre Staff of Bush Administration. I think that CIA and current administration Work Very Well togather.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Maybe, but we're getting into territory sensitive to ATS rules. And my batting average was real good until last night and so I feel I have leave it here.

There are abunch of good people running this show, I think I'm one too. But there's a limit in the area we might slip into and I can't go there knowing it may be an ATS no-no.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Here is the New York Times Article:



"We would give them blows to the head, chest, legs and stomach, and pull them down, kick dirt on them," one sergeant told Human Rights Watch researchers during one of four interviews in July and August. "This happened every day."

"They wanted intel," said the sergeant, an infantry fire-team leader who served as a guard when no military police soldiers were available. "As long as no PUC's came up dead, it happened." He added, "We kept it to broken arms and legs."

Captain Fishback, who has served combat tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, gave Human Rights Watch and Senate aides his long account only after his efforts to report the abuses to his superiors were rebuffed or ignored over 17 months, according to Senate aides and John Sifton, one of the Human Rights Watch researchers who conducted the interviews. Moreover, Captain Fishback has expressed frustration at his civilian and military leaders for not providing clear guidelines for the proper treatment of prisoners.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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such as putting detainees in stress positions, exercising them to the point of total exhaustion, and sleep deprivation.


Every single one of these things is legal and not torture. Now Souljah, where does it say in your original article that they were “ORDERED” to do these “abuses”?

And stop trying to pin this on the President or other cabinet members, you have no proof that they ordered or knew of such things.


[edit on 24-9-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Hight there. Suggest you consider reading a we bit more above. We get into ranks. Just a thought though.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Every single one of these things is legal and not torture. Now Souljah, where does it say in your original article that they were “ORDERED” to do these “abuses”?

Legal?

Not According to International Law - Maybe legal to Your and US Army Standards.

And this article does not say that these Actions were Ordered - that is just my Humble Opinion, which have every right to have.

Just like your opinion is that these Actions are Legal.

They are Not.

And thats a FACT.



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