Talking about Chinese J-14 to Stealth F/A-37

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The tail and body of that aircraft look an awfull lot like that of the YF-23

Cough rip off cough...

Oh please, no doubt about the usual chinese behaviour of copying and reverse-engineering, but this concept (if it indeed is a concept and not only some lonely artists design) does only have a very superficial similarity to the YF-23 above that they both are twin-engine stealth aircraft.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Now, why would they redesign the Su-47? It wouldn't make sense, [...] , it's pretty good, so I'd say that the Advantages out weigh the disadvantages on that one.

...Why would the Russian's waste so much money on an aircraft that in the end, they'd end up making conventional like this? The Russian's just don't have the money to be making choices like this, ...

Adjusting concepts due to unbearable costs and technical unreliability ALWAYS makes sense. And that a technical demonstrator like the former Su-37 is being salvaged into a more conventional Su-47 (IF the production version will be "downgraded") is a perfectly understandable choice, nothing special to western developments either (RAH-66 anyone?).

And no offense meant, but this stereotypical phrase of the "Russians not having the money" to do something is contrary to the fact that Russian aviation has so far always managed to keep up (and sometimes overtake -> Kamov helicopter) with the US APART from the low observability and Stealth tech.

Despite Glasnost and regular financial problems over the years since then in my view the Russians never raised a doubt about that they "could if they would".

[edit on 25/9/2005 by Lonestar24]

[edit on 25/9/2005 by Lonestar24]

Originally posted by Lonestar24

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man
The tail and body of that aircraft look an awfull lot like that of the YF-23

Cough rip off cough...

Oh please, no doubt about the usual chinese behaviour of copying and reverse-engineering, but this concept (if it indeed is a concept and not only some lonely artists design) does only have a very superficial similarity to the YF-23 above that they both are twin-engine stealth aircraft.

Superficial my *butt*, it's the same damned aircraft - at least as far as the body. It's some CG artists rendering of a YF-23 with a different nose/cockpit, forward canards, and different wings.

Just look:





external image

Notice that both aircraft have the EXACT same body. Look at the engines and how they blend into the body of the aircraft. Notice the triangular area that protrudes between both engines. Look also at the shape of the tails. All EXACTLY the same.

If you can't see that, you need to see an eye doctor.

Mod Edit: Image Size And Anatomical Reference

[edit on 26/9/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Well, if it works for them, I say China has every right to copy as they please. War doesn't care for who was more creative. Only who wins.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Notice that both aircraft have the EXACT same body. Look at the engines and how they blend into the body of the aircraft. Notice the triangular area that protrudes between both engines. Look also at the shape of the tails. All EXACTLY the same.

If you can't see that, you need to see an eye doctor.

On a second glance there certainly are characteristics that mark it as a being inspired by the YF-23. Indeed, I need an eye doctor with my short sightedness, but I dont need a doctor to see that the body is far from being the same.

Engine housing and outlet is different. The connection points between the wings and the fuselage are decidedly different, as well as the mounting and the angle of the tail (which is, indeed, an exact copy). The air intake is completely different. Position of nose and Cockpit are not the same. As a result, the "triangle" you mention has not the same shape.

Be it an artists modification of the YF-23 or not, it is far from being "exactly the same" or a copy. Anyway, Im out.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Superficial my ass, it's the same damned aircraft - at least as far as the body. It's some CG artists rendering of a YF-23 with a different nose/cockpit, forward canards, and different wings.

Actually these planes have a very different shape. the only thing similar is how the engine and the bit behind the cockpit are shaped

But as i stated earlier in this thread it is only made by a guy with to much time on his hands

PS: Why did you post the same picture as me?

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Well, if it works for them, I say China has every right to copy as they please. War doesn't care for who was more creative. Only who wins.

Except in this case it is not China copying, but some CG artist.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
In case someone is still wondering, the aircraft posted is just the work of someone playing around with the body of the YF/23.
That is all...

Yes, a part of your said is correct, but I have to tell you that some people drawing some pictures wasn't no resources. They factually work for one or more investigation bureau. Although they are too young to search more advanced prat, but they really knew the origenal direction of design.
As fas as the plan which designed by China but closer to F-22 concern, I have to tell you that code name called 093 but have been dive up. Accoreding to what I knew, Chinese 611 bureau is designing a programe which is more like the picture showed I posted.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Well, if it works for them, I say China has every right to copy as they please. War doesn't care for who was more creative. Only who wins.

But the creative side will have more probability to win the war

Originally posted by Lonestar24
Adjusting concepts due to unbearable costs and technical unreliability ALWAYS makes sense.

And that a technical demonstrator like the former Su-37 is being salvaged into a more conventional Su-47 (IF the production version will be "downgraded") is a perfectly understandable choice, nothing special to western developments either (RAH-66 anyone?).

And no offense meant, but this stereotypical phrase of the "Russians not having the money" to do something is contrary to the fact that Russian aviation has so far always managed to keep up (and sometimes overtake -> Kamov helicopter) with the US APART from the low observability and Stealth tech.

Despite Glasnost and regular financial problems over the years since then in my view the Russians never raised a doubt about that they "could if they would".

Su-37??? Downgraded Su-47 to Su-37??!?!?!

What??

Ok, Su, I can understand the typo, but saying that the Su-47 is a downgraded S-37, is just plain wrong. Both aircraft are exactly the same, no difference what so ever.

The only thing that makes an S-37 "Su-47" is the fact that it's production. S-37 is just the experimental test bed. Su-47 is the production of the experimental test bed. Sukhoi thought it would be a good idea to just manufacter the Su-47 instead of redesigning a completely different aircraft.

And when I said that the Russian's just didn't have the money, I wasn't being steryotypical, what I meant was that the Russian's need to choose their projects wisely, I'm not saying that Russia doesn't have the funds, because in post USSR Russia, there has come out some pretty interesting stuff, despite budget problems. I'm just saying that compared to the American R&D budjet, the Russian budjet just isn't as high and they can't research as many projects as once, as the US can.

Is there a problem with that?

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by emile
Yes, a part of your said is correct, but I have to tell you that some people drawing some pictures wasn't no resources. They factually work for one or more investigation bureau. Although they are too young to search more advanced prat, but they really knew the origenal direction of design.
As fas as the plan which designed by China but closer to F-22 concern, I have to tell you that code name called 093 but have been dive up. Accoreding to what I knew, Chinese 611 bureau is designing a programe which is more like the picture showed I posted.

OK, can you clarify this for me?

Are you saying that the artist/artists that made these images are somehow involved with the Chinese government?

Is the 611 bureau part of the Chinese equivalent of the US DOD or DARPA?

I don't know what's the DOD or DARPA. But I think that equivelant to Mikoyan or Sukhoj Bueau.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Notice that both aircraft have the EXACT same body. Look at the engines and how they blend into the body of the aircraft. Notice the triangular area that protrudes between both engines. Look also at the shape of the tails. All EXACTLY the same.

If you can't see that, you need to see an eye doctor.

They look similar but defiantely not "EXACT". I'd say it's more inspired than a copy. The body looks really differnt to me. It looks more smooth and blended. The space between the tail and the engine is completely differnt. The tails also look like they are more upright then the yf-23's tails. The fuselage is completely differnt as well. So what's really the same? The shape of the tail and the shape of the engines in the back. Whoop-dee-do (Who needs that eye doctor?)

I never undstand all this whining and crying over similar aircraft designs. What's the point in doing that? What does one hope to accomplish other than making themselves look kind of childish.

Originally posted by emile

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Well, if it works for them, I say China has every right to copy as they please. War doesn't care for who was more creative. Only who wins.

But the creative side will have more probability to win the war

Well said emile, very very well said. I think someone should of responded to your post before i did. While people debate the small similar parts of planes, cough which im guilty of sometimes. I would have to say that creativity and knowledge in the mind of a solider or pilot is the most deadly combination to a foe. Like say in WW1 where a creeping barrage by the canadians and a well timed attack captured vimy ridge. one last time, very nice saying emile hope you dont mind if i use it sometime emile.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Canada_EH]

I agree with you.

people that like to point out the negative things block out all the other things and concentrate on the negative.

American mad man when he wrote his post probaly was just looking at the engine area and behind the cockpit but probaly didn't take in the other bits

the YF-23 is by far the better out of it and the chinese copy

even though i have no proof i know it is

And now onto an even better plane

the F/A - 37 Talon:
Link to movie prop image.
and its a carrier aircraft therefore it is a lot more versatile
Link to movie prop image.

rather good dont you think?

This forum is for serious discussion only, even though the premise of the thread involves the F/A 37, the pretense of your post was disingenuous The (oversize) images linked come from a section dedicated to "fake aircraft," please direct such posts to the Chit Chat forum in BTS.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Mod Edit: Images Converted To Links.



[edit on 4/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Ummm.... you do know that's just a wooden mockup for a movie and not a real plane right? That plane doesn't really exsist.

I think he probably does, judging by the link name

edit, actually he might not have, I've just noticed the mod edit on his post.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by waynos]

Originally posted by jra
They look similar but defiantely not "EXACT". I'd say it's more inspired than a copy. The body looks really differnt to me. It looks more smooth and blended. The space between the tail and the engine is completely differnt. The tails also look like they are more upright then the yf-23's tails. The fuselage is completely differnt as well. So what's really the same? The shape of the tail and the shape of the engines in the back. Whoop-dee-do (Who needs that eye doctor?)

I never undstand all this whining and crying over similar aircraft designs. What's the point in doing that? What does one hope to accomplish other than making themselves look kind of childish.

There is no 'whining' - I am simply pointing out that this is a CG artists modified Y/F-23, no doubt from some computer game.

Again, if you can't see that, you're blind.

yeah i knew the plane was fake cos its in that "stealth" film but i have heard that the f/a-37 has been thought about recently and 1 may also have been made sooo