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Masonry? - Let Us Search Deeper

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posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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To Real Republican:

George W. Bush (Bush 43) WAS a member of the ol' Skull and Bones fraternity at college (as was Bush 41 and John Kerry as well). I have never seen it written that W. is a Freemason anywhere.

I recently read John D. Robison's book, "Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe Carried On in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies". Adam Weishaupt (operating under the code name of "Spartacus") in his zeal to combat the Catholic Church and the Jesuits, did write that it was prudent to "infiltrate" Freemasonry.

Weishaupt was very adept at taking portions of religion, philosophy, and the "secrecy" of the Secret Societies and molding them into a "Matrix" that would then enable them (in positions of power) to build their version of a paradise on earth.

It is interesting that from his writings, you can see that he really believed that what he was doing was the right thing...to free man from the constraints foisted upon him by organized religion and the money powers of the day.

If you want to see a modern day Adam Weishaupt at work, check the threads on this site about NEO-TECH, NOVUS TEK (etc. etc.). Wallace Ward (a.k.a. "Frank R. Wallace) assembled a matrix of ideas based on objectivism and Aristotelian views of reality. Guess what their goals are? To overthrow the existing structure of government and religions or what he calls "mysticisms." They claim (in their advertisement on this site) to be forming new "Illuminati Societies."

Another source of fuel for Conspiracy Theorists to suspect that Freemasons are indeeed up to something sinister is in the writings of the Theosophists, where Alice A. Bailey said that the "Plan of the Ages" would be brought about by: 1) The Church, 2) Education, and, 3) the Freemasons.

We must keep in mind that most Freemasons are upstanding, good people, and would probably cringe at the thought of evil plots against their countries. Remember, George Washington, called the "father" of this country was indeed a Freemason, as was so many of our intelligent and brave "founding fathers." There is good and bad in everything, and that goes for Freemasonry as well. The teachings in the rituals and the knowledge gleaned from them can be used as a source of good intentions or bad, depending on the nature of a persons heart.

If you use the writings of Hall, Pike, et al, to prove something about Freemasonry, you will see the same old obfuscation tactics about how they "really didn't mean what they wrote" or that they "didn't write for most Masonry" or "weren't part of the Craft when they wrote that."

BTW, on another thread, ML said that the esoteric portions of the rituals were mostly from the Hermistic and Kabalistic versions of the Mysteries, and from what I've studied, this is correct. As to all of the stuff about Lucifer, Morning Star, Venus, returning to the East and all of that stuff, it is better to leave it alone, because as he said on another post, "It is none of your business what my or anyone else's religious beliefs are." Touche!

I am including this info from another thread about a book that explains the inner meaning of Masonry for those with eyes that see and ears that hear:

I have learned a lot from Walter Leslie Wilmhurst's book "The Meaning Of Masonry", originally published in 1922. W.L.W. was a British Mason of high regard, who shows the true path of regeneration for those Masons who would strive to achieve "a quality of life previously unexperienced."

The contents reveal the following:

Intro: The Position and Possibilities of the Masonic Order

Chapter I: The Deeper Symbolism of Masonry

Chapter II: Masonry as a Philosophy

Chapter III: Further Notes on Craft Symbolism

Chapter IV: The Holy Royal Arch

Chapter V: The Relation of Masonry to the Ancient Mysteries

He explains in plain laguage how a Master Mason begins his quest as a natural man, and through the disciplines taught by the rituals, can become a "regenerated perfected man".

He is taught through the levels of E.A., F.C., and then M.M. to 1) purify and subdue his sensual nature, 2) to purify and develop his mental nature, and finally, 3) rise from the dead (no, not physical death!!) a just made man, ready as an instrument to be used by the Great Architect to rebuild the Temple of fallen humanity.

Mr. Wilmhurst further explains that this enlightenment and illumination (and thus evolution of man to superman) was the real purpose of the Ancient Mysteries, and to join the Craft for any other purpose was to misunderstand its true meaning.

For those interested in such esoterica, he mentions what to me sounds like the old "firing of the chakra's" (a.k.a. "Kundalini awakening", "Solar Fire" etc. etc.). He explains that such a man's body and mind have become sublimated and expanded to a condition that is "immensely" in advance of average humanity.

But he points out that the Master Mason knows how to handle these energies (are these the "seething energies of Lucifer" mentioned by Manly Palmer Hall?). He also points out that [these] energies, if applied by an "unfaithful initiate" can be turned and perverted to unholy, demonaical, astral and dangerous uses!

The Chapter V section on the relation to the the Ancient Mysteries doesn't really go in depth into Sacred Geometry and such, but explains that the Craft is a rudimentary modern day version of the Mysteries, mostly focused on the translations (of them) coming out of Greece and Palestine. He mentions Plato's "Phaedo" as a book that every diligent student of Masonry should read.

ars longa, vita brevis!




posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by D_Emissary56
check the threads on this site about NEO-TECH, NOVUS TEK

neotech is nothing more than a scam. They sell people bogus/bs books that promise them practically anything that they want, only get them to buy more and more of their ludicrously expensive books.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Hi realrepublican

I apologise to you if I'm not making myself very clear, which it seem perhaps I'm not. Regretfully I am also time-constrained, and don't always have to opportunity to give in-depth answers. But I'll try again...


Is that it (referring to my definition of freemasonry), where’s the real substance and history to back up all these claims of customs, ancient forms and drama?

Not in a simple definition, I'm afraid. the true pagent that is freemasonry can only been seen and experienced in a masonic meeting. I know that's not a terribly helpful thing to say to a non-member, but IMO it's true. It's why learning and reading alone will only get you so far when studying 'the gentle craft'.

The closest you will see to masonic ritual outside of a lodge room are the ancient mystery plays- this technique of delivering bible stories and morality to the masses started in the middle ages and can still be seen to this day up and down the country.


Now you wrote in so many words, that you’re really not too sure what Masonry is. You wrote “very few senior freemasons give their public opinion on such matters……..”

Actually I'm pretty comfortable on what masonry is, having been a very active member for 12 years and upwards. The study of freemasonry is very much an Art rather than a Science, insofaras because much of our early history is shrouded in mystery it is a great opportunity for speculation, which of course is what freemasons do best


You will be pleased to know that I also don't believe that freemasonry started in 1717 - I hope I didn't give you the impression that I did. Freemasonry has definately evolved rather than just appearing.


Then you wrote “Many people have opinions about freemasonry, and there is a school of thought that tends toward the esoteric interpretation of the symbology of freemasonry. But freemasonry itself tends to shy away from overly complex interpretations of its activities as it sees itself as fundamentally very simple and straightforward.”

According to what you wrote, I think this implies that true Freemasonry is simple and straightforward but still many MASONS disagree, correct?

Again, I apologise for not making myself very clear. Freemasonry defines itself as a 'system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols'. Whilst this is in essence a very simple explanation the interpretation of the allegory and the meaning of the symbols are endlessly speculated about. let me give you an example. In masonic terms the sun represents the Master of the Lodge; and as the sun rules the day so the Master rules and directs his lodge. The sun is often seen on a Grand Master's jewel for this very reason. However I have read that the presence of the sun symbol means that freemasons are sun worshippers, particularly as it represents the "Worshipful' Master. This is a misunderstanding of what freemasonry is as well as the meaning of 'worshipful' but nevertheless it's someone's opinion.

You were asking about books. I recommend Bernard Jones 'Compendium of Freemasonry' as about the best book around, but there are others. John Hamill's 'History of English Freemasonry' is an excellent in-depth study of the growth and development of freemasonry from its British origins to a world-wide organisation.

There are those who have more esoteric leanings, perhaps have studied the kaballah or other western mystery traditions, who find much pleasure out of the parallels they find between their own studies and freemasonry. Masonic Light can tell you more about that, no doubt (if you ask him nicely
), but all that can really be gleaned from the similarities is that certain Truisms are the same no matter where you go looking for them. Just the mechanism of teaching is different.


You’re trying to discredit both Pike and Hall as proper examples for having an opinion on Masonry, why? How many other authors are there writing on Masonry? If you can recommend just one, please do so.

Not at all, their opinion is quite valid. It's when their opinion is somehow taken as indicative or representative of freemasonry as a whole that problems start to occur. Try the books above. If you want some more u2u me.


My definition of “true Masonry” is as per the Great Manly P Hall – said by the Scottish rite Magazine to be one of Masonry’s Greatest Philosophers of the century


I wouldn't disagree with the Scottish Rite magazine at all, he was a great philosopher.


NO, I think I’ll stick with Manly Hall, or unless you or another Blue Lodge Mason can recommend another author.

See above


But does Blue lodge Masonry have separate Lodges for woman?

Yes. Have a look here


... but the six points spells Mason, not Christian or Jew. Is that a coincidence also?

I believe so. Those who go looking for conspiracies invariably find them.



As I suggested in my previous posting, I think you should contact the Republicans and find out why the stars are inverted.


If I did, do you think they will respond to my questioning or even be honest? What do you think is the reason for me asking you what you thought?

I'm afraid I don't know. You'll have to spell it out for me.


The US government has allowed several organizations to be affiliated or claim themselves as Masonic in nature. This creates ambiguity for someone trying to find out what is true Masonry.

It is outside the scope of the US Government to define freemasonry. If they have allowed something to happen through inaction I wouldn't necessarily take that as being tacit acceptance.


Any researcher can determine that the symbols are Masonic, or were placed there by Masons. The 6 pointed Star of David is found there also and it spells Mason. Some lodges do claim that the symbols are Masonic in nature also, so yes the dollar is just one source but not all.

Yes, you've mentioned the star of david spelling MASON a couple of times now. I think the connection is unconvincing, circumstancial at best and quite frankly the letters MASON don't even line up properly. But that's just my opinion.


So you’re implying that Freemasonry is like a shell or vassal; and that shell or vassal without those Ancient Mystery elements, is void or empty. And even still, some disagree!!

Freemasonry is a template, a blueprint. As UGLE puts it 'an approach to life'.


Some would argue much higher than 16%.

Biut those in possession of the facts would not.

I really don't have a problem with an esoteric approach to freemasonry, realrepublican, and if that is your bag then good luck to you. If you decide to join freemasonry I hope you get out of it what you are looking for.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Hi D_Emissary56

I enjoyed your post. I just wanted to follow up on something


If you use the writings of Hall, Pike, et al, to prove something about Freemasonry, you will see the same old obfuscation tactics about how they "really didn't mean what they wrote" or that they "didn't write for most Masonry" or "weren't part of the Craft when they wrote that."


To be fair, Hall wasn't a mason when he wrote 'Lost Keys' or 'Secret Teachings'. That's not to say he didn't have anything interesting to say, of course. And it's also fair to say that these authors are only giving their own opinion, their own 'take' on freemasonry. Nothing wrong with that either.

But the problem with reading one persons opinion on something is that it may not necessarily be your opinion. The only sure fire method therefore is to go to the primary source - grand lodges. I always refer people here but there are plenty other places to go looking.

Of course to really know what it's all about you have to join



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

*snip*

The study of freemasonry is very much an Art rather than a Science, insofaras because much of our early history is shrouded in mystery it is a great opportunity for speculation, which of course is what freemasons do best



This is a great description. Too many people try to make Masonry into an exact science....which in some ways it is (there are rules)....but in more ways it is not....it's alot of personal interpretation.

This is where alot of problems arise with people trying to use writings of Pike, Hall and others as a blanket interpretation of Masonry. Yes they are insightful, but they don't always represent the individual's perception of what Masonry is to them.

People need to remember Masonry is an individual journey, and thus no one Mason speaks for all of Masonry.



You will be pleased to know that I also don't believe that freemasonry started in 1717 - I hope I didn't give you the impression that I did. Freemasonry has definately evolved rather than just appearing.


I too share that belief. For the first "Grand Lodge" to be formed in 1717 it had to exist prior too. I do recognize that the organization as we know it today formed at that time. But, I believe Masonry itself predates 1717.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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Nygdan,

Did you think that I was giving Neo Tech a plug? Have you actually read the Zonpower manuals?

To be clear, I don't endorse or recommend Neo Tech, Nouveau Tek, Novus Tek, Neo Warriors or any of the various offshoots of this "atheistic belief system" to anyone. I was simply pointing out the parallels between N.T. and the teachings of the Bavarian Illuminati.

I have already ranted on another thread (using ad hominum rants and villifying emotionalisms!!) about what Neo Tech is, and how they use the "respond by this Friday or miss the cycle 2 opportunity forever hard sell tactics, etc.

The main book that they pitch has 114 ideas or beliefs that they assemble into an "unbeatable matrix" that will supposedly bring PROSPERITY, ROMANTIC LOVE, etc. etc. etc. to the recipient. To be honest, there are some good writings in the book, but it is extremely anti-God and anti-government. I personally don't like their stance that "personal sacrifice is evil and morally wrong."

As for myself, I did indeed order the Zonpower 2000 book back in the early 90's, but my heart had already been changed by the most powerful matrix that I know...and you learn it "line upon line, and precept upon precept."

I am not meaning to bust your chops with this. It's just that you said it was a scam without saying why or what it is really about.


Trinityman,

Thanx for your reply. I had already been told about my error of quoting Manly P. Hall as a 33rd degree Mason by Masonic Light after my first attempt at joining a thread...Ouch!! Live and learn! I did go back to the printed page so to speak to gain knowledge from both sides instead of just parroting what I read in a few Conspiracy Theory books before posting again.

To be fair, my use of the term "obfuscation tactics" was more pointed at the name calling and "gang-banging" (Neon Helmets term, not mine!!) that went on in some other threads that quickly degenerated after the first few posts! I must say that you and Masonic Light have the knack of answering non-Masons questions (and endless attacks) without resorting to name calling and vitriol, and that is appreciated. I am here after all to learn and discuss items of interest.

Now, about those "secret" handshakes....(just kidding!!)


BTW, I read somewhere that the remnants of the Knights Templars formed the first Lodges around A.D. 1717, after the Ecclesiastical establishments of the day forced them underground.

omnia vincit amor!



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by D_Emissary56
To be fair, my use of the term "obfuscation tactics" was more pointed at the name calling and "gang-banging" (Neon Helmets term, not mine!!) that went on in some other threads that quickly degenerated after the first few posts! I must say that you and Masonic Light have the knack of answering non-Masons questions (and endless attacks) without resorting to name calling and vitriol, and that is appreciated. I am here after all to learn and discuss items of interest.

Ah... but where's the thrill? The excitement? Thank goodness for Mr. Necros and his ilk to keep us on our toes. Talking of the great pan-protector, I wonder where he is? Perhaps he's joined a Cistern Monastry.


Now, about those "secret" handshakes....(just kidding!!)

Er... (bumble)... (stutter)... (attempts to change subject)...



BTW, I read somewhere that the remnants of the Knights Templars formed the first Lodges around A.D. 1717, after the Ecclesiastical establishments of the day forced them underground.

1717 was the date of the foundation of the first grand lodge, and is important as the date that freemasonry first started to become a formal organisation rather than a series of independent lodges. Whilst the development of the GL system has no doubt enabled the Craft to grow and survive for so long, a little part of me mourns the loss of independence. My own lodge is celebrating its 250th anniversary in December and still maintains many traditions from the 'antient' days which are not found in newer lodges.

It is highly doubtful that the knights templar had anything to do with this meeting, and probably only influenced craft masonry in localised ways. I believe that many of the templar traditions are carried on in the side degree of the same name.

In any case the 4 lodges that met in 1717 were already in existence, one at least for 30 years or so. The earliest recorded initiation (in a speculative lodge) in England was in 1646 (or possibly 1641) but it would appear that operative masonic lodges were admitting non-operatives (e.g. speculatives) much earlier than that.

[edit on 27-9-2005 by Trinityman]



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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OK T-man, you got me on that one...

I had so much fun reading the very lengthy thread started by Neon Helmet, that I printed it out and read it at home several times.

The only thing Neon Helmet asked was TO NOT COMPARE HIM TO MRNECROS, and then Senrak DID JUST THAT! I can only say that what ensued next was priceless.

After welcoming Senrak to his thread, he noticed the blight and had some fun with it. But the best part was yet to come....

Neon said that it would be his LAST POST ON THE SUBJECT (Not one post, not one thread), to which Lysergic said, "Oh! This'll be good!!!

Well, suffice it to say that was not the last post by a long shot, and the following banter was indeed entertaining.


.
bscurum per obscurious:.



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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Again, I apologise for not making myself very clear. Freemasonry defines itself as a 'system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols'. Whilst this is in essence a very simple explanation the interpretation of the allegory and the meaning of the symbols are endlessly speculated about. let me give you an example. In masonic terms the sun represents the Master of the Lodge; and as the sun rules the day so the Master rules and directs his lodge. The sun is often seen on a Grand Master's jewel for this very reason. However I have read that the presence of the sun symbol means that freemasons are sun worshippers, particularly as it represents the "Worshipful' Master. This is a misunderstanding of what freemasonry is as well as the meaning of 'worshipful' but nevertheless it's someone's opinion.


Thanks for the book ideas and I will be reading them as soon as possible. One beef I have with the Sun allegory:

Are the references to the Master and Sun being derived from the Spiritual meaning of the Sun "Aton", or Amon-Ra? Or do they just say that to be different?



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by realrepublican
Are the references to the Master and Sun being derived from the Spiritual meaning of the Sun "Aton", or Amon-Ra? Or do they just say that to be different?

Could you explain what those spiritual meanings are?



posted on Sep, 30 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by D_Emissary56
I had already been told about my error of quoting Manly P. Hall as a 33rd degree Mason by Masonic Light after my first attempt at joining a thread...Ouch!! Live and learn!


Just for the record, you were indeed correct that Hall was a 33° Scottish Rite Mason. My point was simply that Hall's infamous Lucifer quote is universally taken out of context by enemies of Masonry, almost always followed by a footnote saying that this was written by a "33° Mason".

Hall wrote "Lost Keys of Freemasonry" in 1924, at the age of 22. He was a graduate student in philosophy at UCLA at the time.

Hall became a Mason in 1954, 30 years after writing the book. He joined the Scottish Rite in the same year.

If memory serves, Hall received the 33° in 1982, 28 years after becoming a Mason, and 58 years after writing the book.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Ah Light, sorry I couldn't give you a reply to your post, but I have been locked out of ATS due to a wrong password conundrum.

My use of quoting Mr. Hall (erroneously as a 33rd degree Mason at that time) had nothing whatsoever to do with the Son of the Morning however. The quote had to do with an inner circle of most august men dedicated to the service of a hidden mystery or sacred secret (arcanum arcundrum).

As a side note, thanks to Nygdan for providing the link to the Freemason web site where I was able to peruse the follow up book to Walter L. Wilmhurst's "The Meaning Of Masonry." It explained what "Initiation" (into the Ancient Mysteries) was really about, and why the true meanings and powers associated with them lie veiled in symbols and allegory to prevent misuse or profanation.

ars longa, vita brevis!



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:30 AM
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Ok, let me state that i am not a mason, but i am a student of their ways, and have read much of the works of their writers.. and THAT having been said, i am no propagandist.

ok pretty much EVERY masonicly used symbol save for the compass and square takes its roots in Qabalistic and Egyptian mystisism, The pyramid is the top of the Qabalistic "Tree of Life", and represent the holy trinity (not so much the current incarnation as laid out by the christian faiths, but the Spirit, Force and Form, from which we get the Father, the son, and the ghost)

The 5 pointed star is equally as ancient, and used by most esoteric schools of thought, the lower 4 points being the 4 elements, and the top point being the soul of both the Micro-cosm, and the Macro-cosm. the Soul going at the top to signify Mans control and dominance over the physical world around him, as promised by god before the fall of Adam. And when inverted it signifies man surrender to the physical elements and forces, which is why it is often seen inverted in left-hand (black) magick

and on that note.. black magick should be a four letter word, black is an important color is the esoteric sciences and should not be debased as to mean something evil.

lets see now.. hmm ok lets talk about that Pike Fella.. Yes he was the big man in the US, but he wasnt the end all of masons.. although he was well received by the European masons

But he never said that Masonry was a religion, he is severally taken out of contexts for the statement "Freemasonry, like all religions, philosophies and yada yada yada"
now he wasnt stating that masonry was a religion, but rather saying that it had similarities to all these things (religion, philosophies etc.), but because religion was the first of those said things.. the propagandists jump on it

now on to the ever impending question of evil and satanism. it is said that less then 5% of the Order are satanists or luciferians. Now as stated i am not a mason.. but considering that the masons accept those of all faiths, it is completely possible (Now mason fellas dont get all huffy yet).

As i said, it is possible, but there will never be much conclusive evidence to this.. if a mason was a satanist or luciferian he would never admit it. and no "good" & "God fearing" mason would ever belive such a thing unless he had the misfortune to witness it for himself.

That being said, Satanism and Luciferianism is very real, regardless of their impact on the order. but the truth is.. satanists and luciferians are mostly harmless.. they dont worship the biblical devil, because any real occultist will tell you there is no such thing.. Ss and Ls (satanists and Luciferians) worship themselves, in emulation of the biblical adversary. and for the most part are to caught up in their own base desires (Sex Drugs and Rock'n Roll Baby!!) to be much threat

Masonry is not taught in schools as part of the regular curriculum because it leads to feverish speculation and far out theories, and because many school children are the families of masons. (if you were G.W.Bushs child or other young relation would you want to hear all the bullspit and propaganda about him?)

There have been many mason presidents, and many vice pres and senators, but not all of them.

the propogandists are quick to point out that those presidents that were assassinated in office (Lincoln, Kennedy, Clevland) were not masons in an attempt to point fingers. But this doesnt mean that it was a "Hit" called down by the Order, Albert Pike was in charge of the Southern Jurisdiction when Lincoln was shot, but he was regarded as a good friend of the president. Now that doesnt mean he didnt have anything to do it "Et Tu Brute?", but i have read a large portion of M&D (Morals & Dogma), including most of the later chapters.. assassination doesnt seem like something Pike would condone, and although revolution is nothing new to the Order, considering the fact that he was pardoned for his efforts in the civilwar, and was a very successfull man in the reunified USA, i cant belive he would have felt a need for revolution.

hmm.. i suppose i will leave it at that and let you all debate what i have said for abit, but as i often do, i would like to state once again

The Order of the Freemason, as with any fraternity or social group, is made up of those who join it. If good men join the Order, then it will be a force of good, if evil men join the order, then it will be a force for evil.

That having been said.. it is often said (Once again, by the propogandists [David Icke can suck it]) that Christian men have no bussiness in the Masonic Order, i totally dissagree.. the order needs true and good christian men as much as men from any other faith.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:59 AM
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You know i figured it out, blue lodge freemasons actually dont have a clue of whats going on. Its not that theyre hiding anything, becouse they really dont know.
Actually at first i thought that they were all in on it, but now i think this is far from the truth, theyre just being used as a decoy, and what a clever idea it is. If crap ever hits the fan, the elite stays clean, while the blue masons hang from the trees.

The real bad boys play in the Bohemian groove and at the Bilderberg meetings, blue lodges are for ordinary people.

Jordan Maxwell is the man ! Go back and do your homework



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