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NEWS: Christian School Expels Girl for Having Gay Parents

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posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

They're allowed BY LAW to discriminate. A lawsuit would do no good (and shouldn't). They are a private organization.

True. And the lesbian parents would not protest the decision to expel their daughter either...

In Moldova on the other hand, gays are not even allowed to hold peaceful demonstrations. And Moldova is a "democratic country", not a private organization.


Moldova: Discrimination Against Gays, Lesbians Is Inadmissible, Says Council of Europe

September 26, 2005


Moldova must guarantee the fundamental rights of gays and lesbians, a report from the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) says.

In the report, the refusal of a peaceful demonstration in front of the Moldovan Parliament in order to bring attention to the rights of sexual minorities is treated with special attention.

“The refusal of the City Hall was criticized by a great many European officials, and it does not present a positive image for Moldova as a democratic country,” he added.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Related ATS Threads:
Tiraspol - Moldova - Mafia in Uniform




posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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I'm confused. Why does the whole family have to have a "Christian lifestyle" to be in the school? The teenager herself isn't lesbian, right? So, what's the harm? What if it weren't her parent but her aunt? Or sister? or brother, cousin, etc.? When does this end? I mean, why does she have to suffer because of the "lifestyle" of others?
I personally don't see the problem with homosexuality, but apparently, this school does. I agree that they are a private institution and therefore granted the power to say who is in and who goes out. But how far are these rules allowed to extend? Can you say someone who's parents rented porn should be out? Porn is Un-Christian. Or what about parents who masterbate (I never spell that right.
)? It's a slippery slope of discrimination, that looks pretty rotten to me. Seems to me this school very carefully decided who to go after. Don't you think?



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright


It's like going to an AA meeting and not be allowed to participate because you're a drinker.

I'll go back to my original statement- She's better off.


No, it's more like, if you're going to come to our meaning, then you are agreeing with our values, which is to stop drinking. And if you keep showing up drunk, we're going have to ask you to leave.


Originally posted by yeahright
I'll go back to my original statement- She's better off.


Then what's the problem?



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Turd Furgeson
But how far are these rules allowed to extend? Can you say someone who's parents rented porn should be out? Porn is Un-Christian. Or what about parents who masterbate (I never spell that right.
)? It's a slippery slope of discrimination, that looks pretty rotten to me. Seems to me this school very carefully decided who to go after. Don't you think?


No. I don't.

Using your example, renting it [porn] once, is one thing. Having the porn on when the daughter brings her school friends over is in a different category.

These people were not asked to dissasociate for whom they are, but for how they continue to live.

Many churches have "colorful" male choir directors. And yet they have no problem, no one asks. Until he shows up at the pot-luck dinner with his "special friend" Sergio. That's when the wheels fall off.

Look at it this way; if they are too selective, eventually, the school will be empty. But I suspect that they are responding to market forces in their consumer base. And they are a business, like any other. They generally will do what enhances the bottom line.



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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I really don't see how the application of standards has so many in such an uproar. Our legal system is structured this way. Does every jurisdiction apply the same standards? No, quite simply.

Since the mother was aware of the standards of that "school", why did she want her daughter to attend in the first place? I can't help but question her motives.
It would seem that by not applying the standards in practice, the result would have been endorsing inconsistency of standards, or a lack thereof.

Why is such a good question.



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Turd Furgeson
But how far are these rules allowed to extend? Can you say someone who's parents rented porn should be out? Porn is Un-Christian.


If that's what the rules of the school are, then yes. They get to make that judgment. Same with masterbation (although that would be kind of hard to prove)


Is it discrimination? Absolutely! Is it morally questionable? You bet! As far as I'm concerned, anyway. Is it legal in this case? Yes.

Just read over some of the responses here that are attacking this school. These are the same people who don't want Christians legislating morality when it comes to abortion ("because it's wrong! It's not fair to the baby"!) and gay marriage ("because God says it's a sin! It's unnatural"!)

Yet they want to say that kicking this girl out of school is morally wrong! It's not her fault! It's not fair!

You can't have it both ways. I think she'd be better off in a school that can't legally discriminate anyway. I wonder if her moms read the school's rules in the first place...



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
These people were not asked to dissasociate for whom they are, but for how they continue to live.


Wait a minute here, are you seriously suggesting that it's reasonable to ask gay people to live their entire life alone, just because they were not fortunate enough to be born straight like you??


Many churches have "colorful" male choir directors. And yet they have no problem, no one asks. Until he shows up at the pot-luck dinner with his "special friend" Sergio. That's when the wheels fall off.


If that's when the wheel falls off, then this church sucks.
Nothing more to it.

You know, interpreting the bible in the most retarded way possible like this school is doing is one thing, forcing your flawed perception onto others really goes a little too far.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
These people were not asked to dissasociate for whom they are, but for how they continue to live.


Wait a minute here, are you seriously suggesting that it's reasonable to ask gay people to live their entire life alone, just because they were not fortunate enough to be born straight like you??


Many churches have "colorful" male choir directors. And yet they have no problem, no one asks. Until he shows up at the pot-luck dinner with his "special friend" Sergio. That's when the wheels fall off.


If that's when the wheel falls off, then this church sucks.
Nothing more to it.

You know, interpreting the bible in the most retarded way possible like this school is doing is one thing, forcing your flawed perception onto others really goes a little too far.


Flawed perception? Jesus spoke out against Homosexuality many times in the Bible, as well as in the Levitican law strictly prohibiting Homosexuality and Beastiality. You must realize that there are no flaws in the Book. You must also realize that in Private Schools, being funded by those that attend, their specific Principles, and Board, that they have the right to abstract themselves from regular Public School law, in the same regards Private school teachers are not required to have any degrees at all. I'm studying for several Degrees(Although taught) I could teach at the School without a degree. A child could teach at the school. Their school, their fee, their Rules. Period. Drop the topic.

Oh, "Born Gay" MY ASS.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by AeroQuake

Flawed perception? Jesus spoke out against Homosexuality many times in the Bible


Ah allright, here we go.
Where?


, as well as in the Levitican law strictly prohibiting Homosexuality and Beastiality.


And eating shellfish, and making clothes of material gathered from different animals, and several other laws that noone obeys these days.
Do you even know what the Levitican law was made for?
Probably not.


You must realize that there are no flaws in the Book.


I fully realize this, but I also realize there are mayor flaws in a lot of peoples thinking, like the case with you.




Oh, "Born Gay" MY AS$.


Ok this is one of the most ignorant and retarded things I have heard in a long time on ATS.
Just when you think everyone had the chance to get out of their little ignorant shell to find out what being gay actually means, it turns out loads (you are not the only one) still don't.

Gay people are born gay.
Just like you were born straight.

Having sex with someone is a choice but being attracted to someone is not a choice.

The statement that gay people are born like this, and that being gay is probably a biological or physical hormone related difference in the brains of a person, was allready proven indirectly a LONG time ago.
There's the sheep experiment, there's the "diet pill making embryos gay" research, and that's just the beginning.

I advise you to read this website.
www.godmademegay.com

If you don't want to find out the truth, then by all means, shut the hell up about this subject.

[edit on 29-9-2005 by Jakko]



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by yeahright


It's like going to an AA meeting and not be allowed to participate because you're a drinker.



Originally posted by dr_strangecraftNo, it's more like, if you're going to come to our meaning, then you are agreeing with our values, which is to stop drinking. And if you keep showing up drunk, we're going have to ask you to leave.

No, it's more like, you can't come to our meetings because someone else in your household is drunk. I didn't see any reports of the little girl performing lesbian acts in the schoolyard.


Originally posted by yeahright
I'll go back to my original statement- She's better off.



Originally posted by dr_strangecraftThen what's the problem?


(sigh) Communication is a complex thing, no? Yes they have the right. My point is that it's morally indefensible. And you appear to agree. Maybe a good topic for a thread would be: "Where Do Our Rights Come From? When Rights are Wrong." Anyone care to try to defend the "rightness" of every law ever passed? We're not making policy, we're expressing opinion. I can't force this school to change its policies, and wouldn't want to have that power. If you'd prefer that every individual and organization be permitted to do whatever they want within their "right" and impose some sort of universal gag order on anyone else commenting on it, then so be it.

Let's say you belong to, or consider yourself aligned with, a particular organization, club, alumni association, political party, etc. And someone somewhere claims to be a member of same organization. And then proceeds to espouse something that you KNOW to be contradictory to that body's beliefs. Is commenting on that and pointing it out in a public forum ("Hey, we're not all like that, and believe this is contrary to our principles") so unreasonable?

This particular item is a sore spot with me because there's an innocent child involved. And now I'll shut up and go away from this topic.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko
You know, interpreting the bible in the most retarded way possible like this school is doing is one thing, forcing your flawed perception onto others really goes a little too far.


regardless of whether or not people meet your own bigoted standards, they are free to hold their opinions in spite of your dissapproval.

The school wasn't "forcing flawed perception onto others."

The parent of the child wanted her daughter to go to that school, and paid for the privilege of having her attend what you think of as some sort of bastion of reactionariness.

And whether gay people are "born" with it is moot.

Some people are "born" alcoholics. Yet we still expect them to behave responsibly, and not just say "God made me this way, so I can do whatever I please with no consequence."

Like many of the outraged on this thread. Your real problem here is not so much with someone's conduct as it seems to be with the fact that you don't approve of their values and beliefs.

You would never be happy with those Christians unless they quit being themselves, and became just like you, and (mis-)interpreting the Bible the way you do.

It's hilarious to me that the left can be just as hate-filled as the right. Basically, demanding that other people quit believing what they do, and become just like you.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
regardless of whether or not people meet your own bigoted standards, they are free to hold their opinions in spite of your dissapproval.

The school wasn't "forcing flawed perception onto others."


Really?
Everyone knows the bible can be understood in several ways, regarding different subjects. To understand the bible in a (from my point of view) wrong way, is okay, as long as you apply that view and effects of that view to your OWN life and not to MY life.
And that's not what this school is doing.


The parent of the child wanted her daughter to go to that school, and paid for the privilege of having her attend what you think of as some sort of bastion of reactionariness.


Not at all. I am sure besides these few little retarded "rules" the school is a fine school. I am also quite sure these mothers did not know about these rules, maybe they were naiv.


And whether gay people are "born" with it is moot.


Is it?
The statement that gay people are born gay, sounds pretty fundamental to the entire discussion to me.


Some people are "born" alcoholics. Yet we still expect them to behave responsibly, and not just say "God made me this way, so I can do whatever I please with no consequence."


Ok before you start to piss me off with all kinds of retarded comparisons (being gay with being a alcoholic), let's get a few things straight.
1. Noone is born a alcoholic.
2. Being born gay can not be compared to being born with the down syndrome(or any other defect), simply because from an objective point of view being gay is not limiting/damaged/defective in any way.


Like many of the outraged on this thread. Your real problem here is not so much with someone's conduct as it seems to be with the fact that you don't approve of their values and beliefs
You would never be happy with those Christians unless they quit being themselves, and became just like you, and (mis-)interpreting the Bible the way you do.
It's hilarious to me that the left can be just as hate-filled as the right. Basically, demanding that other people quit believing what they do, and become just like you.


Hilarious.
Let me make a comparison here that does make sense.
What if a school would deny children of black people to attend to their school?
What would happen then?
Black people are born black, just like gay people are born gay.
Of course gay people could choose to never have any intimacy and relationships because the straight homphobic retarded christian groups tell them to, but seriously is that just?
It would be like asking black people to live their lives alone because they are black.

Now I do not claim I know 100% what the bible means.
And BECAUSE of this I will never force my own valyes upon anyone like this school is doing.
One thing I do know though, gay people are born gay, and can not help it that they were born like that. The people that try to deny gay people from having intimacy, relationships, children and ultimately, happiness, should get a realitycheck.


[edit on 29-9-2005 by Jakko]



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Not at all. I am sure besides these few little retarded "rules" the school is a fine school. I am also quite sure these mothers did not know about these rules, maybe they were naiv.



Do you have kids? Do you have them in a private school?

If yes, then you know that in this litigious society, you have to sign waivers and releases on everything. You cannot just drop your kids off in front of a private school like it was a city park or something.

Private schools (and public schools too, for that matter) make the guardian sign on with the student handbook, that they will take repsonsibility for their minor child abiding by the rules, and understand that if they don't, the kid gets stricken from the rolls.

So, If the parents didn't know the rules, it's because they didn't read the fine print when they signed on.

I've had some run-ins with both public and private school officials. And the number one response to any problem you have is, "Did you look in the student handbook . . . ?"

And the school handbook, from what I recall in the original article, mentioned that the parents were expected to abide by the same rules as the kids.

By the way.

Some of my rhetoric was out of line. But if you feel disrespected, I will say that I was matching emotions, and spewing back the kind of stuff I saw you spewing onto the net.

All joking aside, my impression is that you have a lot of hate for people "like those" you imagine being at the school. The vibe I pick up is that you think those people (whom you've never spoken to) don't have a right to their opinions, don't have a right to interpret the Bible in a way different from yours, and don't have a right to be different from you.

You definitely talk about people in less than accepting terms because of their belief-systems. Not just what they do, but what they seem to believe.

To me, that's the very definition of bigotted. You accuse "those people" of being idiots because they are different, and judgmental.

I think you may have more in common with them than you realize.

[edit for quote signs]

[edit on 29-9-2005 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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This is all yet another reason to support atheism.

No real moral dilemnas there.

And we don't have "special" preists or any at all for that matter.

[edit on 9/29/2005 by Flamingrubberducky]



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Let me explain it one more time.
The one fundamental thing that this school is really doing WRONG, is that they force their interpretation of the bible, not only upon their own lives, but also upon others.

The fact that I think they are discriminating people has nothing to do with the point mentioned earlyer.

No matter what I think about a subject, I will NEVER force my view of the bible upon others.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
Let me explain it one more time.
The one fundamental thing that this school is really doing WRONG, is that they force their interpretation of the bible, not only upon their own lives, but also upon others.



They are not forcing it on anyone!

People pay to send their kids there, when the kids could go to public school for "free."

anyone can leave at any time. Nope. No force there.

Just like I'm not forced to hear your interpretation of this news story . . . I just keep coming back here of my own free will. . . . for some unexplicable reason. That means I consent.

force means "constrain." Show me where they are constraining anyone to accept their views in that private school.

How hard is that to Grok?

If anything, they are "hiding" their interpretation of the Bible, by only sharing it with people who have paid to hear it!




posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
Let me explain it one more time.
The one fundamental thing that this school is really doing WRONG, is that they force their interpretation of the bible, not only upon their own lives, but also upon others.



No one is forcing their interpretation of the bible on anyone in a private school. That is the point of a private school. It is for like minded people to participate in the education of the children, all on the same page, with the same beliefs and goals. It is for like minded people to have a place to send their children to be educated in an environment of your choosing.

You really have to get clear on this. You don't have to agree with anything they have done, but you really have to get it through your head that nothing wrong occurred here.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Relentless
You really have to get clear on this. You don't have to agree with anything they have done, but you really have to get it through your head that nothing wrong occurred here.


If you think discrimination is "nothing wrong", then it's really your problem Relentless.
And they do force their opinion on others, by simply creating these rules to begin with.

"children with gay parents will not be allowed on our school"

If that's not forcing others to deal with your flawed interpretation, then I don't know what is.
It's really not that hard.



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
No matter what I think about a subject, I will NEVER force my view of the bible upon others.


Oh, Really? But you'll sure force your view of homosexuality on others, it seems. So is it just the bible that is off-limits to individual interpretation? Or can people interpret other things how they want to? Or should we all just listen to you to know how to think?


Originally posted by Jakko
Thomas, this kind of attitude towards gay parents is not acceptable.



Originally posted by Jakko
IF they would not "hate gays" but just "condone the lifestyle" (which is really ridiculous as well) they SHOULD NOT punish the kid by sending her from school.



Originally posted by Jakko
If that's when the wheel falls off, then this church sucks. Nothing more to it.



Originally posted by Jakko
You know, interpreting the bible in the most retarded way possible like this school is doing is one thing, forcing your flawed perception onto others really goes a little too far.



Originally posted by Jakko
Gay people are born gay.
Just like you were born straight.

Having sex with someone is a choice but being attracted to someone is not a choice.



Originally posted by Jakko
I fully realize this, but I also realize there are mayor flaws in a lot of peoples thinking, like the case with you.


PS. I agree with everything you're saying about homosexuality. Everything. I totally support equal rights for everyone. That includes gay people getting married and having every right that straight people are afforded.

But you're pushing homosexuality like a religion, man. You're trying to force people to believe the same way you are and that's just not going to happen. You're only alienating yourself by putting down the Christians that way and trying to force them to accept homosexuality.

You know what? Sure it's wrong for them to discriminate. I agree with you. I think most of us do. But it's not illegal. And your morals don't dictate the law anymore than the Christians' do, thankfully.

What are you trying to accomplish here?

[edit on 29-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 29 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Last time I checked this was a discussion board.
Telling others they are wrong on this board does not really mean forcing my view upon other peoples lives like this school is doing.
And what am I trying to accomplish?

Good question.

I have been asking myself this a lot, in despite of the very clear and reliable info that a lot of sites give about homosexuality, many are STILL completely ignorant when it comes to what being gay IS.

It gets even worse when I evaluate what most "fellow-christians" think about this subject.
Why can't people just read www.godmademegay.com... and then change their minds and stop being so stupid?




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