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NEWS: Bible Textbook for Public Schools Planned

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posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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I believe its one thing, to teach our young the bible principles of the 10 commandments in schools, but there should be no affiliation to any religion. As that seems really bias. What is wrong in giving a child a few standards to live by? The world would be a far better place...




posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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I agree that we should teach about religion in public schools. We should teach how silly it is, and how many have died in the name of religion, and how dangerous faith is personally and toward the long term survival of humanity.

We should also teach the history of the major world religions, Christianity, and Islam (that's right, Judaism is not a major religion, and never has been. When will the neocon drones quit calling their Christian beliefs "judeo-christian"? Buddhism is also not a religion, but a philosophy)

We should teach how they developed out of observing the night sky, and that's the reason the numbers 7 (sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, saturn, jupiter), 12 (roughly 12 moon cycles per year, 13 in some years - hence Judas/Matthias and Dan/Manasses), 4 (four seasons), and 3 (father=sun, mother/spirit=moon, son=earth) show up repeatedly and without explanation.

We should also teach that they are based on faith, which is not a valid means of obtaining knowledge, and explain that "belief systems" are really mental viruses (memes) with the root purpose being self replication.

Yes, we should most definitely teach about religion in public schools.


[edit on 23-9-2005 by spamandham]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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The reality is that the Bible as a work of literature is a timeless classic. It is more popular, more creative, older, and generally more interesting than "Beowulf," a buttress of public school artistic exposure. The benefits of Bible study cannot be denied, as long as the scope is restricted to a literative sense in the public school classroom.

Unfortunately, the goal of consistently and perpetually teaching (or studying) the Bible as an irreligious work of literature is basically unattainable, and at this point the conflict is introduced. The reason that the Bible, as classic as it may be, has not been a cornerstone of American English class study is because, basically, it is a hard book to teach...

... In any context.

Truly, though, the potential for unfair scholastic advantage is too great for this to be a viable public-school class.

Let's face it: Christians would rather that their children were taught about the Bible correctly, in an atmosphere that promoted the stories as absolute, rather than one discounting them as "possibly historical" at the very most. This is what church is for. Non-Christians would rather that, if the book is taught at all as required reading, it is taught as a non-historical allegory. These two camps cannot at once receive their precise desires.

This is why this is unworkable.

Zip



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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The Bible is highly silly as anyone who has carefully studied it can tell you.

Start Here

I would love to see an honest class in the Bibles influence and interpretation, but I don't think that is what they have in mind!


On the conspiracy angle, I once read a book that claimed the whole old testament was a codified book of hallucinogenic plants.

Check it!

On the other hand Jesus is just allright with me, oh yeah!



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 03:38 AM
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I wonder...

If Christians want their kids to learn about the bible...then why dont they make them read it AT HOME?



If any resident Christians could maybe help clear that up, it'd be appreciated.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest Holy Qu'ran to be Next - so that it's a Fair Deal!
OR is Holy Bible More important?


Apparently in California the Qu'ran is more important. So perhaps the
teaching of the bible as literature is what really is the 'fair deal' since
the Qu'ran is being taught.

www.jihadwatch.org...

Islam proselytized in Public School ...
www.blessedcause.org... Bias%20in%20California%20Schools%202.htm

Look who's teaching Johnny about Islam: Saudi-funded Islamic ...A CIE-
edited teachers aid used in California schools became the subject of a ...
schools, where young Muslim boys endlessly chant verses from the
Quran, ...
www.campus-watch.org...

IIDB - California schools teaching Islam?www.iidb.org...
www.teachingaboutreligion.org...

The teaching of Islam in California middle schools www.danielpipes.org...

Public Schools Embrace Islam - The public schools in California so stealthily slipped this course into the 7th grade ... The Christianity that is taught is
brief, taught as a myth ...
www.blessedcause.org...

www.jihadwatch.org...

WorldNetDaily: Judge rules Islamic education OK in California ...
Dismisses suit opposing requirement students recite Quran, pray to Allah ...
games" in California public schools has been legally upheld by a federal judge, ...
www.worldnetdaily.com...

I don't mind the bible being taught as literature or poetry. I'm just
nervous that the literature teacher will put his/her own spin on it.
They could push it ... or they could dump on it. Their own bias'
could become a problem. I'm not sure how to get around that and
have the bible in a literature class. Perhaps at the college level and
not at a high school level would be better.


[edit on 9/23/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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I grew up with religion in schools and in the classroom, due to the fact that our Island was predominant Catholic and they had a lot to say about religion and school.

Things were OK while the catholic influences was the one dictating the rules, but when the Island started to get "The Protestants" and many people started to become "Born again Christian" the preaching in the corners and the take over of the school by them became a problem.

While catholic didn't not preached in the schools the Protestants made it into a circus.

That is when the school system decided that not religion was to be in the school.

In the seventies I went through one of the most hardest time in school because the motto from the fastest growing "Protestants" against the catholics in school was "if you don't repent and turn protestant you will burn in hell"

looking back now I understand that fear was the best way to make people afraid and question their religious believes.

As now my Island is full of money making religious groups selling their version of salvation.

You bring religion into the classroom openly and the religious wars will start, because even when Christians believe in the same God they don't agree with each other denominations.

Mine beleives is always better than yours, my church is bigger than yours my god is better than yours.

Its human nature.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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I suppose we should also be exposing our youngsters to the great literary "sources of the Bible" i.e. the older and far more sophisticated Mesopotamian cultures as expressed in the cuneiform literature like the great Sumero-Babylonian Gilgamesh Epic (which predates the Noah flood story by 1500 years, and from which the "writers of the bible" got the idea of including it in Genesis, when they were exiled in Babylon after BC 587 ) and the so-called "Egyptian Book of the Dead" (the 280 spells for the Deceased which guided the souls of the dead Pharaohs to the "Abode of Osiris", which pre-date the words placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jezzzuzz") in the New Testament by 2,000 years (e.g. in one spell, Osiris says: "I am the Resurection and the Life" etc.) .

Also perhaps we should alert our school children to the literary sources of the majority of the 613 so-called Laws of Moses, which were in fact stolen (or more politely, "adapted") from the Babylonian Law Code of Hammurabi (BC 1756), which pre-dates Moses by more than 400 years (e.g. "you will not muzzle and ox while it treads", " etc.): The god Marduk (the clan-god of Babylon) is often depicted in the statuary and bas-reliefs (before 1700 BC) as receiving The Two Tables of the Law on two stone slabs from the god Shamash, the god of the Sun.

To say nothing of the "adaptation" of the far older Egyptian "47 Negative Confessions" (from which the so called 10 commandments were taken) written over the tombs of the dead which pre-date Moses by 1500 years (e.g. "I have never committed Adultery..", "I have never stolen", "I have never murdered..." ["I have never borne false witness against my neighbour..." "I have never dishonoured the sacred days of the gods", etc.)

Hmmmmm. Sound Familiar? Maybe we should alert our schoolchildren to THAT fact when they introduce "the bible as literature" in the classroom.

We'll see how long these Christian moms will put up with that kind of "new information" which has been carefully concealed from our school children (who are still being told that Jews built the pyramids !) :

They'll soon stop the whole program once the real story is told to their darlings.

As they say, INFORMATION IS POWER, and I doubt very much whether these church going soccer moms want this kind of damning information out at so tender and impressionable an age....



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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I don't know why religion has become so adamant about forcing itself onto society.

I believe everyone has the right to whatever beliefs they choose, but I also believe that others should not force their beliefs onto me.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by elderban
I don't know why religion has become so adamant about forcing itself onto society.


Because it's a virus. Pushing itself via legal mechanisms is an ancient adaptation of the prevalent strain that has worked well in the past to spread the disease.

Once you recognize that the real purpose of the major religions is to spread themselves, all the behaviors that appear inconsistent start to make sense.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by masqua
[I believe it was Deism. I believe that the first settlers from Europe came to America's shores to escape religious persecution.

Erm, no, incorrect.
That might work for folks like Ben Franklin, etc., but the heritage and principles I refer to are those that are labeled: Judeo-Christian.


seekerof

[edit on 22-9-2005 by Seekerof]


Despite the statement in this previous post, it was James Madison who, in private letters written to Edward Livingston and others, stated the following:

"Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Gov will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together;" [James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]

Also:

"An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government."[James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]

And this:

"That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some; and to their eternal infamy, the clergy can furnish their quota of impas for such business..." [James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr., Jauary 1774]

This too:

"It was the belief of all sects at one time that the establishment of Religion by law, was right & necessary; that the true religion ought to be established in exclusion of every other; and that the only question to be decided was which was the true religion. The example of Holland proved that a toleration of sects, dissenting from the established sect, was safe & even useful. The example of the Colonies, now States, which rejected religious establishments altogether, proved that all Sects might be safely & advantageously put on a footing of equal & entire freedom.... We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov" . [James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]

There are other examples as well from our founding fathers which is why I believe they would be rolling in their graves if they were aware of the continuing influence of religion in governmental matters.

The Bible and God does not belong in public schools. If you want your kids to believe in talking-burning bushes, fig leaves, and animal barges, take them to bible school or teach them at home.


[edit on 23-9-2005 by Freedom_for_sum]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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as long they paste a warning label on it that it is a some is a theory and much of it can corrupt people.

and some of it as to be taken as we say in holland with a grain of salt.

neem het met een korreltje zout


bible and every thing like it is corrupting people and holding us back in our development as humankind



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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This is obviously just another cheap attempt to get religion in public schools. When will these losers give it up? If people want to study the bible, they will, without any prodding.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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Only way I would support this is if they include all the major influential religons in History and it's seperated from Biology or Science class.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
Only way I would support this is if they include all the major influential religons in History and it's seperated from Biology or Science class.


How do you define "influential"?

I think that the Rastafarian religion is influential and more important than all other world religions because Bob Marley was a product of Rastafarian culture. I beleive that the way to acheive world peace is for all people to be potsmokers.

MANY people would disagree that the rastafarian religion is a "major influential world religion". How do you reconcile my viewpoints with the majority?

I also think that Satanism and Voodooism should be given equal merit and attention in a world religions class, the VAST MAJORITY of Christian parents do not.

My point is, if you want your child to be taught religion, then TEACH them religion. The only reason people are trying to get the bible into school is so they can convert the "sinful heathen children" that need to be saved by the teachings of Jesus Christ.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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Why are you all so against studying the bible in school? Are schools supposed to avoid teaching anything, that could potentially generate controversy?

The bible is one of the best known classics. The book has been very influential throughout western civilization. Why should schools reject teaching a book, just because it is esteemed by certain religions?

Are schools supposed to stop teaching about some book, just because someone declares it their holy book. If I decide to start worshipping computers, then are schools supposed to eliminate all their computers?

I had a class about Greek and Roman mythology in High School. I learned all about all sorts of Pagan gods, and no one ever questioned it. Should the Illiad and the Odyssey be banned from hgih schools, because they contain religous content? Is it ok to teach classic books about Greek and Roman mythology, but not ok to teach the bible?



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
That might work for folks like Ben Franklin, etc., but the heritage and principles I refer to are those that are labeled: Judeo-Christian.



By the way; regarding this image and the aledged statement made by Madison therein: There has never been any document written by James Madison found containing this "Ten Commandment" phrase. This is simply another example of Christian history revisionists trying to dupe unsuspecting people into this Christian heritage myth. I challenge you, Seekerof, to produce a legitimate reference supporting the statment in that image. Otherwise; I suggest not using it again; unless you intend to mislead others.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by crontab
Why are you all so against studying the bible in school? Are schools supposed to avoid teaching anything, that could potentially generate controversy?

The bible is one of the best known classics. The book has been very influential throughout western civilization. Why should schools reject teaching a book, just because it is esteemed by certain religions?

Are schools supposed to stop teaching about some book, just because someone declares it their holy book. If I decide to start worshipping computers, then are schools supposed to eliminate all their computers?

I had a class about Greek and Roman mythology in High School. I learned all about all sorts of Pagan gods, and no one ever questioned it. Should the Illiad and the Odyssey be banned from hgih schools, because they contain religous content? Is it ok to teach classic books about Greek and Roman mythology, but not ok to teach the bible?


I still ask, why don't Christian parents teach their kids about the bible AT HOME or maybe at SUNDAY SCHOOL?

Greek and Roman mythology is completely different because no student in the class is gonna start telling the other students "Unless you accept Zeus as your lord and savior you are going to burn in the fires of hell for all eternity."

And where do you draw the line? Do you think our science classes should start teaching Creationism instead of Evolution? Do you think we should start having prayer in schools? Perhaps a short prayer before the kids start eating their lunch so they can thank Jesus Christ for the meal they are about to receive?

In my Roman art class in HS we talked about Christian influences on many Renaissance artists and the inspiration it had on their artwork, such as Michealangelo's statue of David. We talked about it because it was relevant to the art class, it WAS NOT in any way shape or form evangelistic or teaching the principles of any one religion. As soon as you have a class specifically devoted to teaching the bible, most if not all of the Christian students will start preaching hellfire and brimstone to their heathen counter-parts because they're brainwashed to beleive "unsaved" people go to Hell.



The book has been very influential throughout western civilization...


So was Mein Kampf, your point is?

If Christian parents want their kids to learn about the bible, what's the big deal about TEACHING IT TO THEM THEMSELVES? Or perhaps...you know...SEND THEM TO CHRISTIAN SCHOOL? The agenda of the people trying to push the Bible into public schools is so they can teach it to non-Christian children.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by crontab
Why are you all so against studying the bible in school?


It isn't so much study of it in any context, but to devote an entire course to it is clearly an attempt to push it to the exclusion of other works.


Originally posted by crontab
I had a class about Greek and Roman mythology in High School. I learned all about all sorts of Pagan gods, and no one ever questioned it. Should the Illiad and the Odyssey be banned from hgih schools, because they contain religous content? Is it ok to teach classic books about Greek and Roman mythology, but not ok to teach the bible?


It would have been acceptable to teach about the New Testament as part of the Greek and Roman mythology course.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest Holy Qu'ran to be Next - so that it's a Fair Deal!

OR is Holy Bible More important?

IF there is a Class about Religions, let there be a WORLD Religion Class, not focused on Christianity only.



sure, just as soon as we're "one nation, under Allah, with liberty and justice for all".




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