Why not make Moble Suits?

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posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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I have a question for everyone here on the weaponry forum.

I know that it would be extreemly hard for the military to make a moble suit but why not. WHy haven't we seen something in that nature? If we can build a plane that is stealth why not do that with a fully armed moble suit that would replace a whole patoon of men.

I know I might be reaching out there but why can't the military do a skunks project like this? The technology is out there for the armer and the lord knows we have the software and hardware for it as well.

So again I ask why not. Can you imagine having 15 moble suits walking around the desert of Iraq 10 stories high! Just the sound from them walking would make me give up my weapon.

[edit on 22-9-2005 by texmiller]




posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Besides the cost to make one.

-Fuel Costs. In any scientific comparison, a Mech would need a constant nuclear power source, meaning its essentially spending a mass ammount of energy just to keep it cooled down, and if theyre fighting, it could easily overheat and potentially explode.

-Lack of tactics. The idea that the japanese anime comes up with is that mechs can go on any terrain, well, tanks already do that, thats what they were made fore. The whole mech thing just isn't efficient, it walks akward, its limited in an area it could effectively fight in, its loud and unstealthy, providing ample time for enemies to know of your location.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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And it would be easy prey for RPGs and anti tank weapons.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
Besides the cost to make one.

-Fuel Costs. In any scientific comparison, a Mech would need a constant nuclear power source, meaning its essentially spending a mass ammount of energy just to keep it cooled down, and if theyre fighting, it could easily overheat and potentially explode.

-Lack of tactics. The idea that the japanese anime comes up with is that mechs can go on any terrain, well, tanks already do that, thats what they were made fore. The whole mech thing just isn't efficient, it walks akward, its limited in an area it could effectively fight in, its loud and unstealthy, providing ample time for enemies to know of your location.




-The fuel could be made my ample generators that rotate in the legs of the machine. When stopping the generators keep rotating around creating a power up on the main systems. Another alternative would be to have nuclear option. Or a new thing called Plazma cells, the government is looking into that as an alternative energy source.

-For the moblitiy I can understand but everyone falls down and we get back up again don't we?

- For the record tanks don't go on all terrain. A mech could because to the versitlity of legs and arms. Instead of depending on the track of a tank.

-Ammo is another problem that I can see but if you look at the technology of lazers this shouldn't be a problem along with rockets and flame throwers. Armor is not an issue.

- Stealth capabliity is also a big factor your right on that point. My only suggestion would be to have the stealth planes come in do a tatical bombing and the have the mechs walk through.

[edit on 22-9-2005 by texmiller]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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Unfortunately, the gulf between the portrayal of mechs and mobile suits in animes such as Evangelion and Gundam and what is actually possible with today's technology is wide indeed. Mechs in animes essentially act as extensions of their human pilots. They are fast and agile and often react in unison with the pilot's thoughts.

Actual mechs would be essentially walking tanks. They would be slow and cumbersome and their ability to traverse various types of terrains would be extremely limited. I imagine it would be all they could do to walk effectively. Furthermore, the complexity required to adequately pilot one would result in relatively poor reaction times. It would simply be easier to stick with actual tanks, at least until technology improves significantly.

Slightly off topic, for an idea of what modern mechs or battle suits might look like, check out Project Grizzly, in which a Canadian guy creates and tests a suit to withstand an attack by a fully grown grizzly bear.







posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^That guy has WAY to much time on his hands but its cool that he has made what he wanted and accomplished what he wanted in life. (I guess??)



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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What about ASIMO that has been developed?

If we take that technology apply a good energy source and make room for a human being then we have something to start out with.

ASIMO



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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"Project Grizzly" is a work of fiction, in case you havent noticed.

Texmiller, there are no "Mobile suits" or Mechs today because mankind cannot build them yet. It is wrong to assume that we had the technology to build one (in a combat-efficient way, that is). And they would never be "10 stories tall" as you describe it. 10 Stories would mean a Standing height of at least 25m, which would result in the machine to weigh several hundred tons.

With that weight it would be slow both in speed and limb mobility. They would need MASSIVE joints just to ensure that they dont snap after one bad step. And our current propulsion technique is not capable of such movements, too. Hydraulics are reliable, but slow. And electric propulsion would again require massive and energy-consuming actuators. The only thinkable way to do this would be artificial muscle fibers, which are still in early stages yet.

Another thing would be, as said above, the energy source. Current nuclear technology would not work, because not only the reactor would be huge (I recently stood in the reactor room of a nuclear submarine [the reactor was stripped] ), the equipment to actually convert the reaction into useable energy again takes at least twice more space. And no other current energy forms would be capable of efficiently running such a thing.

Personally, I like the ideas of Mechas, but currently there is neither the technology nor the need for them (in a military context - they might be able to do a good job in mining, construction and such). The only thing that would make any sense would be enhancing suits/armors for infantry.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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If you want the advantages of walking you might want to use this kind of a solution....




Just add armor and weaponry, Shake well, and .... You get a walking tank...
i know, not what you wanted texmiller, but it would be a start...



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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We may have something like Battletech ( en.wikipedia.org... ) but that won't be for a looong time. We're probably a lot closer to a battlearmor type thing than we are to a Battlemech.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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If you look in the gizmag website there is a japanese company that builds a mech. They promote it for industrial purposes but the prototype has airguns on it and it looks military. The problem with a mech is that it's complex and tall. An enemy will see the thing coming from really far away and kill it. This idea although fun is actually moving away from todays thinking on warfare. A mech would centralize warfighting into one big complex unit but today we like to have lots of small simple mobile networked units so that we can get better ISR and are better able to apply the correct firepower to neutralize the target. If one part of this system of systems is destroyed it doesn't matter it just keeps working. The other advantage is that you can easily adapt the system of systems with different sensors and weapons depending on what your fighting.
If you insist on mechs, make mine about 3 feet tall, stealthy and mobile. I want 10,000 of them.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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Metal Gear Rex was explained well in MGS...

Actually, one of my life goals is to try and kick off something like Metal Gear. Then eventually it'll evolve into something that's space-worthy (Mobile Suits/Gundams). I can make it work



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by northwolf
If you want the advantages of walking you might want to use this kind of a solution....




Just add armor and weaponry, Shake well, and .... You get a walking tank...
i know, not what you wanted texmiller, but it would be a start...



This is what Iam talking about! Thank you and I will take that. Thank you.
Plus I have always been a John Deer fan! them suckers are tough.


But on a serious not. I understand that a 10 story mech would be impossible. BUT, and there is always a but, You have to think about this, Combining the power source from ASIMO , on a larger scale though. Then add the human touch and a crap load of ammo and tada. MECH!



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Here is something interesting.



This is a true mech. He has been working this for almost 9 years and all by himself. Just think if he had government funding what he could do.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by northwolf
If you want the advantages of walking you might want to use this kind of a solution....




Just add armor and weaponry, Shake well, and .... You get a walking tank...
i know, not what you wanted texmiller, but it would be a start...


Nice vehicule, I like it!


I wonder about the decibels, probably loud as hell, and does it move fast or walking slooooow? They would have to make it run fast, I would laugh my arse off watching a tractor running around.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 03:04 AM
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If your talking about huge moblie suits like the Mechs. I doubt it will ever happen they would be super expensive hard to make and huge targets.

Whats the point of a 40ft mech if a grunt armed with a Javelin missile can take it out or a helicopter can take it out from miles away with a hellfire missile.

Besides the human body design is not that good insect bodies are far better. Better to model you robot after a spider then a upright walking ape.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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I agree with ShadowXIX, makes sense.

BTW I'm way more scared about ghillie suits than giant robots.

Can you spot the sniper in this picture?

3, 2, 1... too late, buddy, he busted a cap in your head.

Even more scarier, some ghillie suits are not detected by thermal imaging cameras, war is a biatch I tell ya.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Is it the darker green mass just left off centre?
When I was in the Army Cadets I went to a firepower appreciation day (got a day off school hahahaha!) and saw a sniper concealed in a ghillie suit reveal himself, just a few feet from where we were!

Anyway back to topic. While a mechwarrior would be cool, it is pointless.
You yankee-doodles already have all the big tanks, smart bombs, stealth planes and new technology.
Is all that useful when fighting a war? Hell yes!
Is it that helpful when fighting insurgents/terrorists in FIBUA situations? Not really, no!
Battle armour for individual marines/soldiers that increase survivability and/or aid concealment would be much more useful.
These battle suits could incorperate all kinds of useful things such as automatic morphine administers, built in GPS, helmet cameras, toolkits and medkits. The possibilities are vast.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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Oi! Project Grizzly is NOT a work of fiction!
The Ursa Bear Suit has been built (several versions, actually) and some of the test footage is a riot! I've seen this guy get hit by cars, swinging logs, baseball bats, and of cource, bear paws. I've also seen him fling himself off cliffs and take explosions point blank.

The armour is real.
outside.away.com...


In pursuit of his off-kilter dream — creating a suit of armor that can withstand the attack of a grizzly bear — Troy Hurtubise has endured much: Slugs in the chest from a 12-gauge shotgun at a range of 20 feet. Falling, on purpose, off the edge of the 150-foot-high Niagara Escarpment. Assaults from burly friends and relatives all too willing to cuff him repeatedly with road picks, knives, bows and arrows, two-by-fours. Eighteen times he has stood in the path of a three-ton pickup doing 30 miles per hour, and 18 times the truck has knocked him from here to next week. On several occasions, he has stood at attention while a 350-pound log, winched 30 feet up in a tree, swung down broadside to topple him like a human bowling pin.


However, it is unpowered. Basicly, it's a hightech version of old fashioned suits of armour. It's bulk makes it impractical. The inventor can *bear*ly move in it (yes, very bad pun).

What it means to the creation of "power suits" is that the enginring is there. It IS possible to make armour that can sustain a human being through some very nasty events. What's missing is a way to articulate the suit.

The most likely canidate technology for powering a suit like this is ElectroActive Polymers. These are substances that change shape or size when a (reasonably small) electic current is applied to them.
www.azom.com...

There are two main features of this technology that makes it idea for battle suit production.

1) It power required to make actuators made from EAP move is very low. This cuts way down on the size requirments for your powerplant and thus increases mobility and overall feasability.

2) They can be shaped very much like organic muscels. There's a reason that nature designed our natural actuators they way they are. It's a very efficiant and flexible system having muscels that can bend and flex, be twisted and turned, and even partially broken, without significant impact on their fuctionality.

I'm quite sure that one day we will see some form of power suit out there. The aplications go beyond military. Space suits, fire fighting gear, search and rescue, and even use for parapaligics are all valid applications.

BTW, the next major hurtal is how to control something like this... there's some tech that is likely suited, but I'm all typed out for now.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
BTW, the next major hurtal is how to control something like this... there's some tech that is likely suited, but I'm all typed out for now.


I thought about that, too. But as long as the suits are dsigned to be of man shape, there has been a solution (which I think should be possible without problems) around since 1954. Robert Heinlein in his book "Starship Troopers" describes a suit that simply registrates the soldiers limb movements and forces the exoskeleton/powered body armour to move in exact the same parameters. To put it otherwise, the suit simulates the operators movement, so that in the end both the limb and the suit are in exactly the same position again.

Add a combination of voice activation, wrist controls like in the "Predator" films or chest controls as seen on Darth Vader, or even "eye tracking and tongue" control for the most obvious functions like in "Battletech", and the suit should rather easily be controllable.

As said before, reliable muscle fibers reacting to induced current have to be developed (there are raher sgood working test fibers by now, but they react according to whether they are exposed to an acid or a base fluid). and, most importantly, an easily and long-lasting renewable power source.

This "mech" that was built buy an Australian (I think) mostly works via hydraulics, and it is neither suited for industral nor for military use.





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