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If "Jesus" was "without sin" then WHY was he baptised by John the Baptist?

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posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Torah says that the high priest was appointed by baptism.
Jesus was being baptised as the high priest at the hands of the only legal high priest (John Baptist). Caiaphas was a stooge of the romans, not a Torah legal high priest.
In order to spread his arms and declare "it is finished", he had to be a high priest. That is part of the sacrificial ritual of the Hebrews.
Christ was both the sacrifice and the high priest.
Banjo




posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Hi Banjo:

Torah says that the High Priest must be of the Tribe of Levi.

But R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean was of the Tribe of Judah not Levi (all that Daviddic blood you know), so technically (according to Torah) he could not be a "high priest" (baptism or no baptism), unless you want to follow the "logic" of the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews (whoever he was, certainly not Paul---not even close to his Greek style) who made "Iesous" a "High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek" (lit. "righteous-King" or "priest king = Heb. Melekh = king + Heb. Tsaddiq=righteous one, or priest ) who offered Abraham BREAD and WINE in Salem (later renamed Jeru-Salem) according to Genesis chapter 14:18

Marg brings up an important point: if his Baptism in the (filthy) Jordan by Yohanon was "for the remission of sins for the world", then what was the naked seditionist doing (exactly) dangling from that Roman gibbet on Golgoltha at Pesach in AD 36?



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
A fairly simple question, and one which comes up alot, but no answers are forthcoming from believers that make any sense.


A better question might be, even for those who have sin, why get baptised? After all, isn't it faith that saves you?

This implies baptism is ceremonial only, and serves no supernatural purpose.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 02:29 AM
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True that baptism serves no 'supernatural' purpose. It is done in order to free guilty consciences and 'wipe the slate clean.'

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
--1 Peter 3:21 KJV

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
--Hebrews 10:22 KJV

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
--1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV

There is no benefit in dwelling on things one might be regretting--which is not at all the way it is handled in modern religions--being baptized these days seems to be done for 'membership' in this or that church--from what I can see that is the best way to get someone captive in order to really dump guilt and preoccupation with sin upon them.

Anyway...

The reason Jesus did it is simply because one of the reasons why He lived among men was to demonstrate an example--to forge the footsteps that must literally be followed in order to reach the narrow gate. There is nothing He commanded us to do that He did not first do Himself. Not just 'do as I say, but do as I do.'



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Nice answer Annie,i loved it

i`d also add that he also had to fulfill prophecy,but an example for us is important for us to recognise.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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He came to be a pattern for man. (and woman too, ya numbskull)

In the great words of one introvert speaking to the extrovert... That's all i have to say about thaat.


Click me for Forrest Gump sake, but you have to read the first paragraph

[edit on 9-23-05 by pacman]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:05 AM
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Question: If Jesus was born not in to sin, then why did he get baptised?

Answer 1: For a laugh.

Answer 2: All his mates were doing it, and if he didn't get baptised he would have been un-cool, so it was peer-pressure!

Whether Jesus needed to be accepted in to the House of God, or whatnot, is neither here nor there. The facts are that Jesus should not have been born in to sin like the rest of the population, hence he need not be baptised. Sure, being baptised is 'just a ceremony', yet it was to 'wash' away the sins. So why did Jesus have to wash away his sins? Did he jerk off in his teens and feel as though he had to come clean? What's the deal?

Reading parts of this thread i've seen christians have taken their normal routine of getting out of things with technicalities. Finally resorting to 'it doesn't matter if he was baptised or not, he was still the son of god!' pffftt...what's the point in argueing with a brick wall that won't budge...



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Jesus was not baptized to "take away his sins". He was like us in all things except sin. And he was not baptized "to take away his mother's sins" either.

"His eternal messianic consecration was revealed during the time of his earthly life at the moment of his baptism by John, when "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power," "that he might be revealed to Israel" as its Messiah. His works and words will manifest him as "the Holy One of God."

The above from Catechism of the Catholic Church, page 123, paragraph 438, 35 and 36.

I believe that it was during "the agony in the garden" where Jesus took the sins of the world unto himself.

The New American Bible, Saint Joseph Edition, Luke 22: 41-44. "After withdrawing about a stone's throw from them and kneeling, he prayed, saying, ""Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done." And to strengthen him an angel from heaven appeared to him. He was in such agony and he prayed so fervently that his sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground."



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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He wasn't baptisted for the remission of sins, but I'm not sure what he was baptised for.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Jesus was baptised because it is necessary to enter the kingdom of God. Baptism would have washed away his sins, if he had had any, but he didn't. Jesus was setting an example to all Christians, so that they would know that baptism was something they needed to do.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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John the Baptist had the same opinion as to why he should baptize Christ. He said if he needs be baptized, then he is not worthy. Jesus responded, I came to be a pattern for all man, what I bid(ask) them to do, I must do. If He would ask us to be a way, He must set the example first. Setting an example of the road to God. If you teach by example you find you do things you don't yourself need to do, but do anyways to transmute to the pupils the methods by example. Such as a teacher knowing the material, but retelling it for the students sake. Does this make sense to ya?



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:34 PM
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So dragons and pacman, can I surmise from your posts that you view baptism to be necessary for salvation? If not, then what is its purpose? If the purpose is merely ceremonial, then why did Jesus do it?



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham
So dragons and pacman, can I surmise from your posts that you view baptism to be necessary for salvation? If not, then what is its purpose? If the purpose is merely ceremonial, then why did Jesus do it?


Yes, that is exactly what I believe. Even though Jesus had no sin, he still had to be baptised for that reason.



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
Yes, that is exactly what I believe. Even though Jesus had no sin, he still had to be baptised for that reason.


Interesting.

So then justification is through faith + baptism?



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
Jesus was baptised because it is necessary to enter the kingdom of God. Baptism would have washed away his sins, if he had had any, but he didn't. Jesus was setting an example to all Christians, so that they would know that baptism was something they needed to do.


so it was a classic case of 'monkey see, monkey do'. if all these new christians saw someone doing something they would just blindly copy and follow, as it got them in to heaven.


Originally posted by spamandham
So then justification is through faith + baptism?


it would appear so if the reasoning for jesus to be baptised was so others could follow and do the same.

however, could jesus not just say 'hey, look...you all need to have this water put on your head and dunked in this water by this john the baptist guy, because that's the only way you can get in to heaven'. when john the baptist got asked by jesus to baptise him, as john the baptist had heard so much already about jesus he felt he was unworthy to baptise him. so what i believe jesus was doing was trying to make himself look like god's son, but still stay as human as the rest of us.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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I have collected the various postings from this thread which shows the reason Jesus was baptized.


helen670
posted on 9/22/2005 at 04:33 AM Post Number: 1701842 (post id: 1723735)

BaastetNoir

Jesus was baptized so that everyone could see he was telling the truth about who he was. Only when Jesus was baptized did the Holy SPirit came and showed himself to everyone who was present.



Thank you!
Simple and without quotes.
IX
helen


BaastetNoir repeated this message several times. I think the point of this thread got lost by choosing to focus on why we as Christians are baptized.

The following is a quote The from Catechism of the Catholic Church, page 123, paragraph 438, 35 and 36. It reinforces what BaastetNoir has said.


Mahree
posted on 9/24/2005 at 12:47 PM Post Number: 1707192 (post id: 1729085)

"His eternal messianic consecration was revealed during the time of his earthly life at the moment of his baptism by John, when "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power," "that he might be revealed to Israel" as its Messiah. His works and words will manifest him as "the Holy One of God."


You might want to go back and read for yourself the posts quoted here.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Hi Mahree:

Your quote about being "annointed" (i.e. Meshia'q or Messiah'd) at the baptism smacks of a heresy called "Arian Adoptionism." Did you know that?



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hi Mahree:

Your quote about being "annointed" (i.e. Meshia'q or Messiah'd) at the baptism smacks of a heresy called "Arian Adoptionism." Did you know that?


No, I didn't know that. Perhaps you can give a link where I could check out your statement.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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Hi Mahree:

There are a lot of links on the internet on "Adoptionism" and related "heresies" of the later "official" Roman Church, but here is a link to get you into the mood of the discussion...!

www.trends.ca...



posted on Sep, 28 2005 @ 01:15 AM
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Manifesting His kenosis, Christ cleansed His own body in water not because of His sinfulness but because He was “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29, 36; cf. Ephrem, NH 2; John Chrysostom, Bapt. 2, PG 49.366). Thus He acknowledged the importance of the Old Testament which He came to fulfil. Moreover, water itself was purified of the infection of the sins and defilements washed in it. Because of them it was called the habitat of the devil (Psalm 73:13-14; 103:26; Gregory Nazianzen, Or. 39.16.15-16: “the devil is king living in the waters”). By entering the waters of the Jordan, Christ purified and blessed this element for our baptismal purification (cf. Gregory Nazianzen, Or. 38.16; Or. 39.15; Ephrem, EH 9. refrain).



The meaning of water .....
orthodoxeurope.org...

IX
helen

Mahree please read this///

Arianism and Adoptionism is not part of the Church teachings......it arose in the early yrs of the church....
This was condemned.......Back then and Still is.....BUT it always comes up!
St. Athanasius (293-373 AD), and the Church's battle for the doctrine of the Trinity.
IX
helen

[edit on 9/28/2005 by helen670]



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