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brainwashing students

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posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by resistance
The result? The guys are wearing earrings and makeup and the girls are dressing up in combat boots and fatigues and pairing up with punkers with dog collars and pink hair.


I've worn this kind of stuff before.. but I'm not gay and there were no 'gay clubs' at the schools I went to [which was a big surprise as one was a catholic girl only school]. I find it odd that you seem more worried about kids not wearing the correct 'christian' atire than kids being bashed to death just because they are not attracted to the opposite sex.. how is what your proposing more moral?

A group that is designed to promote love, tolerence and acceptence. Yep.. Jesus would really hate that.

[edit on 10-10-2005 by riley]




posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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In a day and age when beliefs of bigotry and intolerance are slipping away to enlightenment and acceptance, those that are bigots will try to make theyre stance by pushing away everything that goes against what they belief. There is more then enough proof of this on this topic. We've been shown a few of those who believe in a conspiracy against christians, where they're children are potentially one of the "many" that are seduced into a cult like following of "gay for a day" homosexual "cults" in a sense. To further give us "proof" of this, they give us links to information from other bigots with "information" on the truth of this.

Children are not as moldable as most people think, infact, the more they grow up, the less outside influences affect theyre minds. As they continue to grow, they become more conscious and active in theyre decission making, good or bad. There are no invisible hands in school, waving a watch back and forth and telling them to become evil homosexual atheists. Blind acceptance to this just furthers fuels the brightness of what is wrong with that idea, its ignorance. It simply shows that non of those claiming this have actually been to a school in the last five or even ten years. Theres no secret video tapes floating around showing good wholesome christians being brainwashed and turned into evil little homo-sexuals, are there? No. This my friends, is the purest form of propaganda, being spread by those ignorant enough to further enrage it.

In a time of equality, you must take the good and the bad. If you want more religious oriented material in your schools, you must also accept that tolerance will be taught in opposition. This is not brainwashing, this is simply the yin-yang affect of a public school system. Its a culmination of all ideals and beliefs, presented in a non-evasive manner to further enlighten people. Is tolerance something you people really fear? Because that is all there is too it, nothing more. The being you worship, Jesus Christ, also preached tolerance of others: lepers, homosexuals, prostitutes. Theres no limit to. Spinning an agenda around public schools and crying wolf abouta supposed brainwashing scheme just shows that maybe you need to practice your religion alittle better, because the message isn't coming through.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Man, where do I start with this? I'm a high school teacher.


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Teachers have to have a college and/or graduate degree before they can teach in a school. The teachers themselves get indocternated at the college/graduate level to the culture and beliefs of that particular school... Any one with an agenda can slip it in at this level and they have time to convince the potential teacher that their ideas are correct.


This is incredibly offensive. I went to a university where some of what I learned may have helped shape my beliefs, but they are my beliefs! Are there really people who get "indocternated" (sic) by what they learn in a college classroom? If so, they must have been very weak-minded to begin with.


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

They will at the very least indicate with subtal hints that the student is wrong. There are many times when the teacher is actually against the parent, and actually hates when they have to talk with that parent.


Hm, so when you disagree with someone's point of view completely, do you simply accept everything they say unquestioningly? Even when I don't like having to talk to someone or listen to their narrow-minded, bigoted point of view, I still do it because it's part of my job. Are there parts of your job you dislike? Welcome to the club!


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

As far as sex ed goes, many of us have a problem that they don't teach abstence as well. They teach every thing the kid needs to know on how to have safe sex, but there is nothing that is said about not having it. It really isn't even presented as an option, since they believe that they are going to do it anyhow. It is like the sex ed teachers don't even think that there may be some kids that would actually abstain from sex.



I don't know where you live, but this is patently untrue where I live, which is in a fairly liberal area of the U.S. (Washington state) All Health teachers are required to teach abstinence as the best option. It's actually the law.


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
In the US, anyone who owns property has to pay for the school in the district they live in through taxes. Private schools receive no government funding. The funding comes from the parents paying for that school.


So would you like me to pay for your child to attend a private, religious school? I guess you'd be right in line with the Republican party there. See "vouchers"...


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Actually you are intolerant against the Christian religion and the fact that they say homosexuals are sinning. If you want tolerance practiced by Christians, then you better start tolerating the Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin, and say nothing about it or against it. That what you expect Christians to do with all the ideas that you believe in, but they are against.


I should probably go back and see what the reply was to this; I'm new here and was so ticked off at this post that I rushed to reply to it.

I teach in a school where students who have tried to start a Peace & Justice Club have been attacked and blocked by administration, where a poster advertising a safe meeting place for students to discuss Gay and Lesbian issues was torn down by administration --- if you really believe public education is so "liberal", you ought to do some research. Students who dare to express a truly liberal point of view are typically shut down by the paranoia of a few parents or an unenlightened community.

That's the "real world" of education in America.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Zeppy said:


So would you like me to pay for your child to attend a private, religious school? I guess you'd be right in line with the Republican party there. See "vouchers"...


No, Zeppy, I certainly don't want you to pay for my kids' education. And likewise I don't want to pay for yours or anybody else's either.

If people truly are "TOO POOR" to afford to educate their kids, and there are no scholarships, no schools willing to take them (which there would be schools standing in line to be able to have kids to teach and try to shape their worldview on them) -- IF they are really TOO POOR, then a minimum type Poor School could perhaps be funded by the state (not the feds but the state). This would provide basic literacy and nothing else. Anyathing else would be up to the parents to wing it, volunteer themselves or bring in somebody to help out.

No more grief counselors, guidance counselors, art teachers, music teachers, gym teachers, or anything else that's not basic literacy.

As it is now the public schools don't even do a very good job teaching basic literacy.

Makes me so mad to see my neighbors who have way more bucks than I do using my money to educate their kids. Then they want me to buy their candy bars and raffle tickets on top of it.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
No more grief counselors, guidance counselors, art teachers, music teachers, gym teachers, or anything else that's not basic literacy.


I don't understand the couselors part. The other classes are admittedly "extras", but why get rid of soemthing so many students utilize? Perhaps some of the posters in here should have sat in with their guidance counselors.


Art and music is a fundeamental part of life. Do you sing hymns? Do you honestly believe that without music and art classes, those who want to become musicians or artists can afford to do so on their own without at least a basic knowledge of what lies ahead?

And gym (phys ed) is seriously needed. Many children in Amercia are plain out and out FAT (none of this "obese" or "overweight" - they are lard butts), and without at least a FEW classes a week, what else can they do? No structured playgrounds here...our playgrounds are the "streets".

So many wonderful things have been created from music and art. It's a shame that all we are supposed to do is sit down and plunk away at reports instead of making this world a more beautiful place.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rouschkateer

Originally posted by resistance
No more grief counselors, guidance counselors, art teachers, music teachers, gym teachers, or anything else that's not basic literacy.


I don't understand the couselors part. The other classes are admittedly "extras", but why get rid of soemthing so many students utilize? Perhaps some of the posters in here should have sat in with their guidance counselors.


Art and music is a fundeamental part of life. Do you sing hymns? Do you honestly believe that without music and art classes, those who want to become musicians or artists can afford to do so on their own without at least a basic knowledge of what lies ahead?

And gym (phys ed) is seriously needed. Many children in Amercia are plain out and out FAT (none of this "obese" or "overweight" - they are lard butts), and without at least a FEW classes a week, what else can they do? No structured playgrounds here...our playgrounds are the "streets".

So many wonderful things have been created from music and art. It's a shame that all we are supposed to do is sit down and plunk away at reports instead of making this world a more beautiful place.


It's not my job to provide counseling, art classes, exercise or any of this other extraneous stuff to other people's kids. I don't even want to pay for their training basic literacy. I sure as heck don't want to pay for my neighbors' kids to be taught that the stuff I BELIEVE is a bunch a crap, and the stuff I HATE is wonderful.

As I said, let these people build these kind of "schools" with their own money, not mine. That's the American way.

Aren't you the one who was advising a young person on another thread how to find information to summon demons? Nice responsible person you are!



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
It's not my job to provide counseling, art classes, exercise or any of this other extraneous stuff to other people's kids. I don't even want to pay for their training basic literacy. I sure as heck don't want to pay for my neighbors' kids to be taught that the stuff I BELIEVE is a bunch a crap, and the stuff I HATE is wonderful.

I wouldn't advise anyone to go against something that they believe in. I wouldn't appreciate it if someone did that to me. However, most of this thread is just trying to make those who think public schools are brainwashing kids open thier eyes and minds a bit to see it really isn't all that bad.



As I said, let these people build these kind of "schools" with their own money, not mine. That's the American way.


The ones who wanted public schools to begin with wanted everyone, rich or poor, to have a decent and standard education. That was the American way then.



Aren't you the one who was advising a young person on another thread how to find information to summon demons? Nice responsible person you are!


Sorry...that sounds like you are judging me. And that is for another thread. If you read my entire post, I told them what I thought of their ill-concieved idea.

I was just trying to give those who don't believe in puiblic school an opportunity to try and see that they aren't all that bad.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Rouch -- Sorry, but they ARE that bad. In fact they're worse than bad. They are the root cause of what's wrong with this country. Public schools were an invention of socialists who wanted to get their hands on other people's kids so they could indoctrinate them into their socialistic worldview. It had nothing to do with "everyone getting a decent education." People were already getting more than a decent education. They were far more literate than people today. Back then people could spell, they could compute, they knew their geography, and they were jsut generally more literate.

But even if the schools were a disaster, it's still not the government's job to raise the kids, to teach and train them up. That's the parents' responsibility. And parents, if allowed to be parents, will do a better job of BEING parents than any pseudo-substitute ever would or could.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Jeremiah25 - How does the fact that guys wear earrings or girls wear dog collars make them bad people? The way a person dresses has nothing to do with their morality.


It doesn't necessairly make them bad, but they present a bad image of themselves to others. I know we are not suppose to judge, but unfortunatly most people do judge others by their appearance from teachers judging which students to watch out for this year to employers making hiring decisions. Most likely if students dress like this in highschool, more than likely they are trying to get their parents angry intentionally. Unfortunatly schools, businesses, and people out taking a leasurly stroll in a park do not like to see groups of kids dressed like they could be in a gang. Businesses will call the cops for loitering, and people will naturally steer clear of the group.

I do not know if this is the same in Austraila, but here in America kids are vunerable to peer pressure and what the group wants them to do. A group is called a "click". Even a very toned down click can put peer pressure to get others in their group through a dare or what ever to do things such as steal, smoke, drink, and etc.




Jeremiah25 - I teach my students that Christian beliefs are every bit as valid as non-Christian beliefs.


Be careful you don't get students confused in this area. There are many conflicting belief structures. How can one belief in many gods be as valid as one belief in only one God? You can get say a Christian parent angry when their kid comes home saying hey did you know that Buddism is just as valid as Christianity? If Buddism is just as valid, why does the Bible call it a false religion?

Wouldn't it be easier and more beneficial to teach that every one has the right to believe what they believe instead of every religion is vaild. In that respect, wouldn't you be teaching true tolerance? No matter what you believe, the other person has a free will and right to believe what they believe even if it is totally different than your own personal beliefs?




zeppyfish - I went to a university where some of what I learned may have helped shape my beliefs, but they are my beliefs! ...I live, which is in a fairly liberal area of the U.S. (Washington state)....So would you like me to pay for your child to attend a private, religious school? I guess you'd be right in line with the Republican party there. See "vouchers"...


For all the tolerance that is suppose to be taught in the schools, this is the most intollerant post I have ever read. Is this how you teach tolerance to your students, to become angry at a person when they hold a completely oppsite set of beliefs than you do?

I see you have made alot of assumptions about me also. Just like I could make the assumption that I'm not supprised at your post with you being a west coast liberal. More than likely that your beliefs already lined up with what was being taught.

It is extremely hard for me to imagine that every single belief you had when you entered into college was never affected by any of the teachers, students, or the culture of the college while you were there. That all of your beliefs before entering in college stayed exactly the same and intact after you left college.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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The problem with localizing the responsibility to educate, at the basic literacy level is that fact that not all parents are educated. The system was not set up to indoctrinate people, but to allow those who do not have the education to home school a child, in mainly areas where the families are too poor to send a child to a private school of some sort. Without the funding of public schools, are children would have as options would be wealthy private schools with tuitions within the thousands, and catholic or christian private schools, also with tuition within the thousands. Either way, somebody gets the shaft in that situation.

In the 1800s all schools taught religion within it, as an actual class, and if not, actually involved it in every subject. The schools taught the core of the christian fundamentals, aswell as how god relates to everything else, in every subject. Resistance, if you ask me, this is a far better example of schools indoctrinating people then what you try to cite. In public schools today, all teachers are bound by laws forcing them to not speak about personal beliefs on anything, and restrict themselves to purely factual statements. If they are caught spouting out theyre beliefs, they can and are fired, and often sued. This does not only apply to a teaching try to teach about religion, but also about any other beliefs. For example, a teacher cannot tell his students how to preform an occult ritual any more then they could teach how to preform communion. These laws are set up to fight AGAINST indoctrination and to keep school systems a pure socratic society of scientific and academic research.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 10:56 PM
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Dear Wolf -- You said

If they are caught spouting out theyre beliefs, they can and are fired, and often sued. This does not only apply to a teaching try to teach about religion, but also about any other beliefs. For example, a teacher cannot tell his students how to preform an occult ritual any more then they could teach how to preform communion. These laws are set up to fight AGAINST indoctrination and to keep school systems a pure socratic society of scientific and academic research.


Excuse me for choking and gagging.


Almost everything that's taught in the schools is about beliefs. Everything other than math, grammar, chemistry. History, literature, science are all worldview stuff taught with a definite bias depending on the worldview (i.e. globalism, NWO, atheist, amoral, libertine, barbaric (abortion as solution to problems). And your statement about no occult is just plain wrong. The Indians' occultic beliefs are enshrined and ennobled and glorified in the public schools. Likewise with the beliefs of nearly everyone but Christians, who are demonized and blamed for every war and every bad thing that's happened since history began.

And young children are taught from kindergarden on in mind control, how to have a familiar spirit, and to become demon possessed. Furthermore, the public schools are in bed big-time with the drug companies and send them lots of customers, poor kids forced to take mind altering, mind bending drugs that will change the way their brains function permanently.

The school shootings we've been hearing about were the result of mind-controlled kids programmed to do what they did so the sheeple would want to vote in strict gun control. Unfortunately for the Illuminati there's too many gun owners in this country and the NRA is too powerful, so their plan failed.

But don't worry -- they've got LOTS more tricks up their sleeves.

Are you enjoying your long march in the Lemming Parade?



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Ill tell you at times in early days of schooling i thought they were trying brain wash me but it's not about government usaully its about something that extremist are trying to promote no offense to any teachers out there but quiet a few of you (teachers) have thoes views. Im not saying all teachers are like tha though.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 04:16 AM
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I went to teachers college. I took a lot of classes in how to manipulate the thinking of others, as though we were going to be working with animals that needed to be "trained" rather than humans who were needing to be taught.

Teachers regularly go for refresher courses in brainwashing, and to be brainwashed themselves in the NWO globalist propaganda objectives and how to act as a "facilitator" to "guide" the students to the right conclusions to be good little compliant group-thinkers.

I don't know how any Christian or decent person nowadays can stand to teach in the government schools.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by resistance
I went to teachers college. I took a lot of classes in how to manipulate the thinking of others, as though we were going to be working with animals that needed to be "trained" rather than humans who were needing to be taught.

Teachers regularly go for refresher courses in brainwashing, and to be brainwashed themselves in the NWO globalist propaganda objectives and how to act as a "facilitator" to "guide" the students to the right conclusions to be good little compliant group-thinkers.

I don't know how any Christian or decent person nowadays can stand to teach in the government schools.


Oh, please. I have made some small effort to be polite and to consider all points of view, even if I disagree with them. But this statement is simply flat-out wrong. I don't know which "teachers college" you went to, but in my years of studying for my Education degree, I never once took a class in "how to manipulate the thinking of others". We were certainly never taught to think of our students as animals. Rather, our lecturers went to great lengths to ensure we understood that each child was an individual. Now, I grant you that this was not always the case. Here in Australia, for example, nationalistic and even racist beliefs were regularly taught in schools up to only a few decades ago or less. But times have changed and schools have too. Some teachers may still cling to the ways of the old, but things are improving and the new crop of teachers are generally extremely good and genuinely want to teach their students to be independent and think for themselves.

I find your statement that teachers regularly attend "refresher courses in brainwashing" to be offensive. Teachers remain after their allotted hours to attend staff meetings. During these meetings, we discuss issues relating to the development of pedagogy and highlight outstanding lessons or any problems we may be having and work out how to address them. Forgive me, but the notion that we somehow "guide the students to the right conclusions to be good little compliant group-thinkers" flies in the face of everything I try to do in my classroom. I go great lengths out of my way to ensure that my students learn to think for themselves - lengths which require no small amount of effort on my part. We don't have any NWO agenda. We don't have any Government agenda. We just want our students to be safe and have the best opportunities available to them.

I challenge you to explain exactly how we are manipulating students or brainwashing them into accepting "NWO globalist propaganda objectives". Have you been to these meetings? Again, I invite you to attend a teacher's meeting or a public high school. Sit in for a couple of days and see what it is actually like. Once again, you must forgive me, but your statements are simply not correct and demonstrate your ignorance concerning the actions and motivations of teachers. We work very hard to teach kids and to make sure they have a good start in life.

Mystery_Lady



Be careful you don't get students confused in this area. There are many conflicting belief structures. How can one belief in many gods be as valid as one belief in only one God? You can get say a Christian parent angry when their kid comes home saying hey did you know that Buddism is just as valid as Christianity? If Buddism is just as valid, why does the Bible call it a false religion?

Wouldn't it be easier and more beneficial to teach that every one has the right to believe what they believe instead of every religion is vaild. In that respect, wouldn't you be teaching true tolerance? No matter what you believe, the other person has a free will and right to believe what they believe even if it is totally different than your own personal beliefs?


I think that perhaps I did a poor job of conveying what I meant. It's not so much that I tell my students "All the religions of the world are valid", so much as I say "It is not okay to assault or belittle someone because their religion is different to yours". Kindly excuse the misunderstanding.


[edit on 13/10/05 by Jeremiah25]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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I have been reading this thread with great interest but have not wanted to post before, as some of the views are a little more extreme than I am comfortable with.

A little bit about me - During my life I have at some time or another, found myself working in the capacity of volunteer or paid teacher, tutor, mentor and instructor. I have taught children, youngsters, people with disabilities, adults and those who do not speak English as a first language. My subjects have been English, Foreign Languages and Creative Writing as well as IT.

I am not teaching at the moment but would like to return to it at some point in my life. It is not so much a 'call' as something I found difficult but rewarding.

My father and his brothers, as well as my best friend are all professors at different universities around the world. A good portion of my cousins and aunts are fulltime teachers as well, mainly in secondary public schools in the US. In other words, I know and respect many teachers.

In addition, some of the best things I learned when I was a child, can be attributed to the patience, kindness and sometimes strictness of teachers themselves. I have a fond place in my heart for those that encouraged, praised and chastized me.

I am a very independent rebellious soul. An avid reader with a thirst for knowledge. I don't like authority very much and despite my education, I consider myself more of an agreeble self-learner. I have taught myself many things from books and from watching others - but despite my best efforts and the help of my library books, I still cannot macrame, bake, speak Russian or knit to save my life.

Despite my proactive need to learn things myself - I believe teachers have an important purpose and a heavy responsibility when educating the future of tomorrow.

Therefore, I find it difficult to read what people are saying about teachers. First of all, the post that really got under my skin was the comment about brainwashing: a generalised condemnation of principles and an accusation of ulterior motives, that were it not for the seriousness of the matter, would actually be quite funny.

Let's face it - the job of a teacher is not an easy one. The pay is poor and the hours are lousy. You have to deal with apathetic kids and parents, as well as those who always believe you could be doing a better job. You see abused kids, unloved ones and those who you would like to take home with you because the thought of them going home to their parents makes you stay up nights not sleeping.

In all my years of educating in different forms and to different audiences, I've attended many meetings, courses and classes and I have never encountered the so-called brainwashing classes, that were mentioned. I was so bothered by it, I felt I had to reply.

The implication of this would also mean you would have to believe the following:

1. One is fine with the idea of brainwashing students
2. There are courses you can take where others are OK with this too
3. People are so malleable you (untrained mental magician) can brainwash them and they won't even know it

Ahhh - if only we could take this influence and use our powers for good; what a better place this world might be.

Teachers have it rough. And they do it, a lot of them, because they believe in helping others. Simple as that. It is selfless, difficult and stress inducing: a thankless job. A lot of the times you wish the parents would get a clue and teach their children what you shouldn't really be called upon to teach them.

Not a perfect world and teachers are not perfect (neither are parents) but educators are trying to do an insurmountable task with little resources, reduced budgets, overcrowding and the constant pressure of administration and parents alike.

I understand and can see the point of those who prefer to homeschool their children. You are providing them with many things. Primarily with love (one would hope) time, patience and dedication - all children should be so lucky.

Having said that though - I would think that you would be a little more respectful toward teachers, as you know (having taught your own) that it is a difficult, time consuming and let me say this one more time - thankless job.

You may have chosen to take your children out of the public school environment - but other people have made it the focus of their lives to teach the children of others - and that is admirable.

While you have elected to sit at home shutting the eyes of your kids and the doors to anything that might provoke controversy and ideas you don't want your offspring to have; someone else is out there, struggling with hundreds of students daily, trying to help them, inform, teach and sometimes just help students get through the day.

Who are you to call these teachers brainwashed tools of a liberal and corrupt government (my words not yours)? Do you feel justified saying this because you don't agree with their politics or religion? You seem to think there is some mystery to teacher training and a dark agenda that beats at the heart of an organisation that is out to attack the morality of your children.

I am sorry but that simply is not the case.

And like others on this thread, I would like this accusation to be backed up by proof.

There have been times I have to tell you, when I have wished I had the power of hynosis and could use my (convincing) voice and my compelling eyes, so I could get my students more interested in books and literature.

Guess what? I snapped my fingers and it didn't happen. It takes a lot of WORK to get children to read and ultimately despite our best intentions, sometimes it never happens. Then we go home and sit and the couch and wonder if we are in the right profession.

If teacher's had a special class to find out how to get students to accept their ideas, don't you think educators would use that same power to get students to understand History or learn Math skills?




[edit on 13-10-2005 by nikelbee]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Nicklebee -- You said

Who are you to call these teachers brainwashed tools of a liberal and corrupt government (my words not yours)? Do you feel justified saying this because you don't agree with their politics or religion? You seem to think there is some mystery to teacher training and a dark agenda that beats at the heart of an organisation that is out to attack the morality of your children.

I am sorry but that simply is not the case.

And like others on this thread, I would like this accusation to be backed up by proof.



I am not against teachers per se. My father was a public school teacher and I went to a teachers college myself, and I've had all the "methods classes" which I refer to as "brainwashing techniques," on how to train children as though they were Pavlov's dogs.

I have two tutors now for my child and if I could find a school that taught my worldview and that I could afford I'd take the opportunity to put my child in it.

But the "teachers" in the government schools are rubber stamps to a uniform and strictly regulated curriculum which comes from the federal government and goes on down through all the various state departments of education. The national teachers union is mandatory and you can check out their agenda any time you want.

The teachers colleges all teach the same stuff, the Pavlovian philosophy of how to "train" human beings, rather than to teach them.

www.eagleforum.org...




[edit on 13-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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Resistance, no offense, but the only proof your giving us are links to religious oriented blogs for the most part. Theres no sources cited on them, just people spouting about things without anything to back it up. You talk about this phantom teachers college you went to and the courses they taught you, but we have other teachers here that deny this, and you have no proof to back it up. What you do have, are religious fundamentalist propaganda, with no sources, citations, or resources on where they got theyre information. If you want to be taken seriously on this subject, you have to do with something more solid.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Wolf -- Start with this link. I'll get you some more. Did you go to government school? I guess if that's all you know, you might just think it was normal and okay.

www.transcriber-editor.com...



[edit on 13-10-2005 by resistance]



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Wolf -- Start with this link. I'll get you some more. Did you go to government school? I guess if that's all you know, you might just think it was normal and okay.

www.transcriber-editor.com...


Well, I did go to the link you provided and was not surprised to find that it was simply a mixture of gross generalisations with a very well-defined agenda of its own. Let's take a look at some of the "educrat" definitions it gave. Then I invite you to examine my rebuttals with an open mind, given that I have tried to approach this issue in an open and respectful manner.



Critical Thinking Skills — A person’s ability to answer within a split second that his “life goal is to preserve the environment.”


Well, first of all I question why exactly this site seems to be against teaching about environmental awareness in state schools, but okay, I guess. Secondly, critical thinking skills means skills that enable you to consider all sides of an argument and form your own opinions based on an appreciation of and understanding of all sides. The way we teach this is by getting students to question things. I have never used the environment in doing so, and am more likely to try to get my students to question the Government, or the media especially. If you can see a problem with this, kindly let me know.



Patriotism — The jingoistic notion that one’s country is special. Must be extinguished to make way for today’s Global Village.


Again, this is just not true and is, I think, a no-win situation. I encourage my students to be patriotic and take pride in being Australian. It seems that if I do this, we are seen as encouraging students to be nationalstic and obedient, whereas if we don't, we have an agenda to decrease national pride.



Multiculturalism — Opposite of patriotism. Emphasis on separate cultures within the nation and world with equal time spent on and value given to each.


Multicultalism complements patriotism. Here in Australia, we are an extremely multicultural nation. I teach my students that they should take pride in the fact that so many people from so many different cultures have chosen to come here and work together to make Australia great. This gives them an appreciation of multiculturalism and a sense of patriotism that are not mutually exclusive.



Illegal Drugs — The drugs that aren’t harmful, i.e. marijuana.


This is an interesting one, because I have just finished teaching a unit on "Should Marijuana Be Legalised?" I went to significant efforts to show both sides of the argument and to get my students to decide for themselves. In the end, some thought it should be and some thought it should remain illegal. The point was that they had evaluated a current issue, weighed both sides of the argument and come to their own conclusions. If I had been somehow guiding their decisions, surely they would all have said not to legalise it?



Government — All-knowing, beneficent facilitator for good. Also, the only thing we have to force people to do things our way and make sure we don’t lose our jobs.


This one cracked me up. I spend so much of my time getting students to question the Government that I'm sure they think I'm some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist who hangs out on ATS all day ... ahem. The Government is certainly not portrayed as all-knowing. Any assumption that this is what students are being taught is flat-out wrong.

This site is little more than generalisations and outright errors and was obviously written by somebody with little or no experience in the public schooling sector. Which is really sad, because some of the points it raises demand more attention - outdated textbooks, for example, or certain school-to-work programs, or standardised tests. I would really appreciate your comments on what I have said, resistance.

Oh, and far from being brainwashed by public schooling myself, I spent all 12 years of my schooling in a private religious school.

[edit on 13/10/05 by Jeremiah25]



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 12:40 AM
link   
I believe the site below really brings things into focus with a larger view of what is going on. We have been arguing/debating brainwashing and education in a narrow scope picking on a couple heated issues. Maybe brainwashing itself is too narrow. I even forget to widen my scope of things. Maybe it would be better to see brainwashing more as planned social reform over years if not decades.

The organizations behind planned social reform whether brainwashing or not will wait decades or longer to see their plans fulfilled even if the original members of the group have already died. For example, choose your favorite hot topic issue (HTI) that you feel is getting pushed pushed either in schools, in the news, and etc whether it is radical environmentalism, homosexual agenda, a religious agenda, etc. The group that is pushing the HTI is taking small steps to getting HTI recognized by the main stream public. Those promoting tolerance towards HTI may not see any thing wrong or not see how they could be brainwashing anyone. This is only one year and one small step. Teachers today have taught tolerance to their students. The students carry over that tolerance later on in life, and teach that tolerance to their children. Then then later on the HTI group could push their agenda even further with the next generation until it is finally accepted by the majority of people. What may have been considered abhorent or highly unreasonable a few decades ago, is embraced later on. I have read a six step plan on mind control and how to use it on society as a whole, but that gets detailed. I would advise reading up o mind control, monarch program, and visiting threads here dealing with mind control. There is another aspect going on.

I have seen the arguements I have been making, and arguments others have made, and wonder if the smaller issues are created to divert our attention from the more important larger issues of what is really happening to our country and educaitonal system. Radical issues that make people angry or elicit a strong stance on the issue also helps to dividing the people against each other. They are too focused on the small issues to even begin realizing the larger issues.

I know some of you already are hot under the collar with me, and completely disagree with me. Maybe we could all try to practice some tolerance here inclucing myself. I would try to take a look at a different aspect of this subject of brainwashing students as the title states and look at the broader picture of it as social reform and the plans the few in the extremely "elite" class has for us from even as far back as 1913.

From here I'm going to highlight some quotes to show the larger picture. I will be breaking up the quoted material into five segments, which is still only a small amount of information from the site. There are some interestingarticle updates at the bottom of the site.

The Destruction of American Education
www.hermes-press.com...




"In our dream, we have limitless resources, and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hand. The present educational conventions fade from our minds; and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or science. We are not to raise up from among them authors, orators, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians. Nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from among them lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we now have ample supply."

Rockefeller Foundation Director of Charity,
Frederick Gates, 1913





Clearly, the rulers not only did not want to make "philosophers" of the working class, they wanted them trained so they would not even think for themselves. So they have deliberately devastated the American mind through:

funding universities and scholars who carry out the devastation of the American public education system in particular and American intelligence in general

developing programming (brainwashing) strategies using all media types, but especially television

the imposition of miseducation and brainwashing tactics to destroy American citizens' ability to think for themselves

subjecting American public education to a series of failed experiments, from "look see" reading to the "new math"

redefining key concepts so that the public school students no longer understand the fundamentals of a democratic society

turning what is called "education" into nothing but training





TheDemonic Cabal wanted a working class that was merely trained to do a particular job, not think about social or political issues. They created an educational system focused on training instead of learning, which took its lead from such physiological, materialistic "psychologists" as Wilhelm Wundt, G. Stanley Hall, James McKeen Cattell, E. L. Thorndike, and others. The primary ideas and practices of this group included: ...

public education must limit itself to training working class students to carry out whatever task they are given to do and to accept the commands of their superiors...

This ruler-imposed system, enhanced by anti-intellectual activities such as minority-group studies and multiculturalism, produces uneducated and programmed students who understand almost nothing of what occurs beyond the propaganda and mythology of the political-financial leaders.





By 1968, John Goodlad, one of the educational establishment's best known spokespersons, made it clear just what was important in "education."

"The most controversial issues of the twenty-first century will pertain to the ends and means of modifying human behavior and who shall determine them. The first educational question will not be 'what knowedge is of the the most worth?' but 'what kinds of human beings do we wish to produce?' The possibilities virtually defy our imagination."

"Learning and Teaching in the Future," Today's Education
(journal of the National Education Association)





But the educational establishment doesn't even recognize the devastated condition of American education. Many university professors, even full professors, cannot write or speak sound English. A department chair in a state university in California recently wrote a book, which he forced all students in the introductory class to buy, which contained over one hundred grammatical errors.

Republican supporters of the voucher hide the fact from the public that the crisis in the schools is largely the product of decades of federal, state and local spending cuts, tax breaks to big business and attacks on teachers' and other school employees' wages and working conditions.

The newly-sanctioned voucher system will intensify class and social distinctions. .... At the very bottom will be the public schools, left for the poorest and most disadvantaged working class students. Unable to do little to help working class youth develop learning skills, the role of these schools will be little more than training lower-class students for low-paying jobs. As some are warning, any government system--public schools or voucher-based private schools--carries government control with it. If the "High Cabal" uses the voucher system to gain total ideological control of private schools, we may have to create completely private "democracy schools" without resorting to vouchers.


I added in the quotes on the vouchers only because I believe they will eventually become the way the government gains control over private schools and what they teach. In this way the government can have almost complete, absolute control of what our kids learn in the future.




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