Sorry, but anyone and everyone in the U.S. illegally should be immediately deported, whether they suffered a natural disaster or any other problem.

The Greater Evil

From the source article:
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the Homeland Security Department encouraged all storm victims, including illegal immigrants, to seek help. The appeal was made in English and Spanish.

While I do not support illegal immigration, I also do not support government deception.

When our government uses lies to enforce the law, it sacrifices integrity for expediency.

Government deceit and the rule of law are incompatible principles, and a nation which tolerates dishonest leadership is a nation in moral decline.

As an American, that is far more disturbing to me than illegal immigration will ever be.

Yeah, where is the bad part? I couldn't find it. If it doesn't sit well with you that they told everybody to seek help and then illegal aliens were stupid enough to think they'd just get in line and get their debit card and head over to the Piggly Wiggly with everybody else, sorry - I don't see a thing wrong with the INS doing its job. Wouldn't that be one of the first federal agencies in this mess to actually pull that off???

What would have been very very bad is if the government had said "everybody ask us for help - EXCEPT YOU ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! you can just crawl under a rock and die!"

That would have been terrible.

Originally posted by Majic
While I do not support illegal immigration, I also do not support government deception.

When our government uses lies to enforce the law, it sacrifices integrity for expediency.

Government deceit and the rule of law are incompatible principles, and a nation which tolerates dishonest leadership is a nation in moral decline.

As an American, that is far more disturbing to me than illegal immigration will ever be.

I couldn't agree more!


Valhall:

Originally posted by Valhall
What would have been very very bad is if the government had said "everybody ask us for help - EXCEPT YOU ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! you can just crawl under a rock and die!"

That would have been terrible.

That is what has effectively been done for the next time... How many will seek that help now that they know the federal government intends otherwise? It just isn't that simple. For example, how many illegals are also parents with children in this country?

In my view, this is very bad policy.....

[edit on 20-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by loam


That is what has effectively been done for the next time... How many will seek that help now that they know the federal government intends otherwise? It just isn't that simple. For example, how many illegals are also parents with children in this country?

In my view, this is very bad policy.....

[edit on 20-9-2005 by loam]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Because I still don't see anything wrong here. If you're an illegal alien, don't expect not to be deported if you go asking for assistance. You're going to get taken care of, but you'll also get a free ride home. I guess it's better than jail, right?

Generally, deporting illegals for me has never been a problem. That really isn't the issue.

This, however, presents a rather unique situation. In a natural disaster scenario, offering help as a lure to effect deportation is just more than I can stomach.

Nearly one-third of families headed by illegal aliens have children who are U.S. citizens. The breakdown is

- 24 percent have only U.S. citizen children
- 10 percent have children who were not U.S. citizens
- 7 percent have some children who are U.S. citizens and some who are not.

This is one "form-over-function" policy I can not agree with at all. The illegal immigration issue isn't going to get solved with this approach. It has to be addressed at the root. Prevent them from entering in the first place.

What is next? Have hospitals, schools and daycares report illegal parents? Such policies will only hurts innocent children and NO impact on stemming the tide of illegal immigration.



[edit on 20-9-2005 by loam]

[edit on 20-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by loam
Generally, deporting illegals for me has never been a problem. That really isn't the issue.

This, however, presents a rather unique situation. In a natural disaster scenario, offering help as a lure to effect deportation is just more than I can stomach.

Okay - I call foul. How did you make the mental leap from deporting the illegals who are discovered during this process to "offering help as a lure"?

There's absolutely no proof that anybody "lured" anybody into anything. It's pretty freaking simple. If you dont' want to get deported DON'T COME FORWARD. That's the price of breaking the law - you get to hide.

And I don't care how many kids they've popped out while they've been here. Great - when the kid grows up he can come back and claim his rights. OR, he can stay here. I'm probably not the right person to try to get my heart-strings humming on the plight of the illegal alien - they are where they are of their own decision. They broke the law. If they come out of the shadows they get deported. If you want to blame somebody other than the individual who made the decision to enter this country illegal <=== wow! wouldn't that be a novel idea to blame the actual person - then you need to blame Vincente Fox for passing pamphlets and teaching his people how to break U.S. laws and get on the dole. There's the accomplice in this situation.

[edit on 9-20-2005 by Valhall]

P.S. Just to make clear where I'm coming from. Some broad was quoted as saying that if the INS is using this situation as an opportunity for enforcement she would have some kind of great big concern. Here's my quote...if the INS ISN'T using this as an opportunity for enforcement then they need to be accused of incompetence and negligence.

That's my take.

Val,

Looks like you posted when I edited my last reply...

Like I said, this is one "form-over-function" policy I can not agree with at all. The illegal immigration issue isn't going to get solved with this approach. It has to be addressed at the root. Prevent them from entering in the first place.

What is next? Have hospitals, schools and daycares report illegal parents? Such policies will only hurts innocent children and have NO impact on stemming the tide of illegal immigration.

Don't delude yourself into believing that the health, safety and security of these children will not be compromised HERE in the US. Tell me how that ins't defacto "just crawl under a rock and die!"

Again, this policy isn't the solution to illegal immigration.

Want to get tough on illegal immigration? Go after US employers with stiffer CRIMINAL PENALTIES. There is plenty "wink and nod" occurring on that front.


[edit on 20-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by Valhall
If you want to blame somebody other than the individual who made the decision to enter this country illegal <=== wow! wouldn't that be a novel idea to blame the actual person

Wait! Now, I call foul! Where did you read that I wasn't blaming them? My point is that now we have the problem and this policy does NOTHING to resolve the immigration issue. But what it will do is grow a newer problem affecting the health, safety and welfare of children (some of whom ARE US citizens) that have no culpability in this situation.

Originally posted by Valhall
There's the accomplice in this situation.

See my US employer comment above.

The price of illegal immigration is a life of hiding, but they should hide from the law, not from humanitarian efforts. The key word here is humanitarian. It's not a relief effort for Americans only, its for humanity. There will be time to deal with illegal immigration in the future, but the Katrina relief effort should not be intertwined with immigration control. Where does it end? Should we have the IRS audit every refugee now to ensure that they're all paid up with their taxes? Should we fingerprint them all to make sure that they don't have any outstanding charges? Why is it just these immigrants who are now facing the investigation of the law, and not all the refugees?

I'm all for the rule of law, but this just reeks of opportunism to me.

-koji K.

Loam

I agree that the issues of concern here are that illegal immigrants are being told to come forward without threat of retribution and then deported outright. I find it (in a time of chaos and crisis) to be morally reprehensible. Especially as some of them must have children as well. I feel sorry for the folks who are so gullible and desperate they believe whatever they are told.

The practical me says the government didn't/doesn't care too much about the US citizens who suffered/died in New Orleans, why would they care about illegal immigrants?

And Val, I hope you didn't mean your comment in a derogatary manner, but I take offense at the 'popping out' of children like these people are beasts not humans.










[edit on 20-9-2005 by nikelbee]

"Anchor babies" are NOT American citizens. That's basically a twisting around of the Fourteenth Amendment. In fact, I believe there's a provision in that amendment for such a situation.

Originally posted by Amethyst
"Anchor babies" are NOT American citizens.

You may "feel" that way, but it is well settled law that indicates otherwise....

Originally posted by nikelbee
Loam

I agree that the issues of concern here are that illegal immigrants are being told to come forward without threat of retribution and then deported outright. I find it (in a time of chaos and crisis) to be morally reprehensible. Especially as some of them must have children as well. I feel sorry for the folks who are so gullible and desperate they believe whatever they are told.

The practical me says the government didn't/doesn't care too much about the US citizens who suffered/died in New Orleans, why would they care about illegal immigrants?

And Val, I hope you didn't mean your comment in a derogatary manner, but I take offense at the 'popping out' of children like these people are beasts not humans.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by nikelbee]

They weren't told they wouldn't be deported. They were told they wouldn't be punished.

I meant the comment exactly like I said it. If it offends you that's your personal problem...not mine because that offense comes from your side of the conversation, not mine. I don't have to be politically correct about irresponsible reproductive habits...even if it's driven from false and misguided religious teachings. But no where in that comment is there reference to beasts - so get your mind out of the gutter.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Sorry, but anyone and everyone in the U.S. illegally should be immediately deported, whether they suffered a natural disaster or any other problem.

I'm with you. I think we should search the states for illegals all over the contry who are living in a house kick them out send them back where they came from and give their house to some AMERICANS who suffered from the storm!

This is no different than the Sheriff's department calling a bunch of guys with warrants every year and telling them they've won a raffle for a boat. When the guys with warrants show up, they are led in one by one and handcuffed.

It's deception, sure, but it's commonly accepted practice, and to my knowledge none of those tried after being apprehended in this manner ever won their freedom because of the method of capture.

If I was an illegal immigrant breaking the laws of the country, I wouldn't believe anyone from the government telling me to come forward and get help after the hurricane. This is like the cops who say to drug users, if you suspect someone has sold you some counterfeit drugs, bring it down to the police station and we'd be happy to test it for you.

They don't tell the idiot junkies that arrest for possession will follow promptly after any positive test.

Some people believe these lines and get hooked. The smart ones don't.

It's natural selection, hardening the illegals and other criminals to resist governmental efforts to deal with them. The government is essentially making its problem worse by trying to deal with it.

For these reasons I have no complaints. It looks like, once again, everything works out. Life really is fair, I keep telling people that and nobody believes me. Even that's fair.

I appreciate your concerns Loam, but I think the point really boils down to survival. The illegals are doing what they do for the right reasons, and so is the government. Both groups utilize occasionally unsavory methods.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by WyrdeOne]

If the US borders were sealed tighter than a drum, i could see this attempt to clean up the illegals.
Since nobody in power cares, and they're still coming in, i see this as a schitzophrenic violation, to say the least.

Just more crapola.