Is there a growing anti american sentiment on the board?

American Mad Man!

"self loathing"
I had to laugh at that.
Last weekend, someone asked my wife about her major, in college.

Her response was:
"I'm majoring in Cultural Anthropology, and minoring in SELF-LOATHING"

She's a few years older than her fellow students, and comes home with mixed feelings about her professors often. Calls them agenda driven.

Like they can't just teach a course, but have to inject personal politics
all the time. A lot of the younger students swallow it whole..
But she, (never known to hold her tongue) challenges her professors
quite often. Professors love that.....And it's good for the GPA too.


I think it's one of the new American pastimes..

IMH the whole concept of being anti American is the biggest load of BS going around at the moment. I dont agree with NZ nuclear free policy but I have never been called anti NZ.
Where do people get off insulting there friends and allies?
Remember that other post 9-11 war that the international community supported and took part in?
Nobody expects each individual American to thank there allies. However non Americans do expect that there Americans counterparts have basic Knowledge of geography which seems to be lacking.

Every wonder why there arent any moderates in the American political divide?
Well heres the answer people that go round labeling others as anti American have done a pretty good job at alienating moderates and middle roaders after all supporters reflect there leaders and vice verser.

Originally posted by Netchicken
This is purely my personal view as opposed to anything from the board.

We have had a few complaints about the rise of anti american comments on ATS over the last few months. Some people take it personally, and want it to stop. However I personally feel that such sentiment derives from international events and press reports themselves.

What IS hurting the board seems to be the virulent republican / democat debate that mostly internal between posters from America. That debate in itself generates most of the bad press and really must reflect the polarization of society itself.

In my thoughts there is no greater American value than the original thesis itself, the key theme of our founding fathers "Freedom verses Tyranny."

About 100 years ago in the time of the robber barons both financial and industrial, heavy influence was steered into channels of eliminating that argument. The new arguments were "Republican verses Democrat," or liberal verses conservative, not necessarily in the same partisanship.

What arose from that was something akin to those leveraging blocks that created the pyramids. If we think of the analogy as one side of the jack raising the block, then the other takes over in a changing of the guard. The problem was that the value of raising that block another notch was towards tyranny, not towards heaven or shall we say "freedom."

As a liberal tried to enforce only outward political correctness by law, the next government of conservatives did away with nothing and implemented its own brand of mindless political correctness. The end result has been a kind of "anti-Americanism," that originates from government.

So when people describe such a situation, leaders in the "establishment," place the blame on the people. For example Jimmy Carter complained about the "malaise," of the people, but it was government itself that was and is in a state of "malaise."

People of America love their country, love their people, but are rightfully indignant to complain about their government. In fact it is their freedom to "petition to redress grievences," and "to assemble." No permits are necessary here, the entire country is a "free speech zone." Who is "anti-american," here?

You are free and you believe it, regardless of whether the government "believes it." Living free as specified in our social contract, the Constitution is a God given right as earlier specified in the Declaration of Independence. Without an active and vital Constitution, the United States of America is a hollow shell, a front for tyranny.

So it is not "We the People," who are at fault, but it is the government itself that is the problem, and it continues at every turn to attempt to void itself by ignoring or having contempt for the Constitution itself.

That is why such blind attempts such as the "Patriot Act," are anti-American, as contradictory to the very premises of America itself. So are you asking people here to go along with such a thing, or face being called names more properly addressing those who implemented and voted such things against the will of the people?

Please do not therefore label people who complain or "petition to redress grievences," when the burden is on our government to do something and correct the wrongs.

"No" to the titular question.

But I would like to see a growing international involvement to reflect the global village and evolve the pie chart displayed earlier, along with an even greater diverstity of experience and a stronger anti-denial sentiment.

Denial is not a river in *BFE*.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
I would like to see a growing international involvement to reflect the global village

As a representative of a large chunk of the ATS pie, I'd like to mention the fact that, with the exception of active allies, there was also an 'anti-anyone else' sentiment evident in the boards as well. France, of course, leads the way in derisive comments garnered here, and Canada, with a French province, has not escaped disrespect at ATS.

A peek at the hatred of the UN will uncover that bias (not that I am free of criticism thereof myself)

We have represented within the membership here today, a number of posters who come from all over the globe...Russia, China, Syria, Eastern Europe, Northern Europe, etc., and it is a good sign that they persist, even though criticism is often their constant companion. If you wish to increase their numbers, then vigilance needs to be applied to their situation as well as the anti-Americanism we're discussing in this thread.

More than anything, during the past few weeks, Springers' (et al) successful attempt to clean up the sniping and name calling on the boards
has made this an easier place to visit for the international crowd. Hopefully, as things evolve, perhaps Masked Avatar will see this community grow into the melting pot he desires.

For myself...it is with great pleasure that I can announce that I have not seen one 'nuke Canada' post lately.

Thanks, Springer and administrators...and thanks, ATS posters, for desisting.

[edit on 21-9-2005 by masqua]

My opinion is let them bring it on. Someone elses personal opinion isn't going to kill me and its not going to do anything but make some upset. I'm all for the gloves to be off all the time as far as someone's right to share an opinion of any country or government. As for warns for criticism of other countries and governments, I hope that is not the case. I don't think it is. I think they usually stem from other infractions of board policy or from those with "more emotional" agendas complaining. Most Americans, i think are used to it and gererally retaliate themselves rather than going through a complaint. Thats because we know everyone is entitled their opinion.

What we have to understand is that other cultures do not share the same freedoms as we and that an insult toward something they are not allowed to insult tends to bring more complaints in to the mods. Why? because in their country if someone speaks against their government, they are usually rewarded for turning that individual in to authorities. In America, we just say "up yours" and forget about it. Believe me, we criticize our own government more than most other outsiders could imagine. Thats whats good about it. We can and do.

I guess my point is I don;t care if there is anti-american sentiment. It doesn't affect my daily life one bit. In my view everyone of us is doing all they can just to live and get by and I don;t worry about anti-american posts on the board unless they refer to an impending attack. After all, you may anti-american now, but just wait until you need aid. Then, by George, we're your best freakin friend.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Patriotism began to become unpopular during the sixties and while it has gained in acceptability in some quarters, it has never regained acceptability in the academy.

ROFL the people in this country are more patriotic than ever. If you mean it lost popularity in the 1860s, you're correct - about half the country tried to leave. Or how about the '30s, when tens of thousands of US citizens emigrated to the Soviet Union.

Of course people are always trying to sell the idea that the country and patriotism are going down the tubes compared to a better past, but just look at the polls, this country is more patriotic than ever.

still waiting on a definition to answer it to it's context but i will try my best to interpret it in how i think the question was asked.

if anti-american sentiment to you means biased, ignorant claims without sufficient evidence to back up an american policy or leadership bashing thread then i'll have to say it's not. from what i've read, it's pretty common knowledge to most members on here to provide some facts before pointing the finger at american government for doing something counter-productive within it's country or outside of it. maybe some facts were not as deeply investigated because when you have a theory or start piecing out some pieces you want to immediately comment on it to see what other people think about it and that's what i believe this message board exists on. for example, Valhall's post which she thought many of the things were illegally(immoral at least) done to evacuees when really some of the actions had a procedures in place before which some people stated out.

given america's world dominance, you will see much more theories pointed to it and they become topics we discuss to try to come to a conclusive (at times impossible) answer to what might be the cause or agendas behind them.

i can't understand how questioning authority these days instantly labels you 'anti-american'.
if american pioneers didn't question british's leadership and took action, we wouldn't have america as it is today. so why do we look down upon people who just want to keep it's own government in check? i see absolutely nothing wrong in that. the only time i would deem it wrong is when someone is demonstrated the facts (and that can also be in scrutiny based on who presents it) and still keeps his/her stand on something which it's oblivious to it. this board has a few people who fit that mold, but just as faith based religion, it's something they truly believe in and will try to prove their claim true until they die or simply get to a point where they are ok with the truth.

Lots of good thoughtful replies to this topic so far, and I don't think anyone is off base in their personal assessments, but again I think the key word is personal and various degrees of perception and pre-bias apply.

Also, because the picture of Bush getting off an airplane to appear in New Orleans (used at one time to introduce the Katrina Forum) has come up again and that's been used repeatedly as a point of contention by some members (not this thread), let me respond with some historical perspective.

I think that's the first time Bush ever graced any "official" page of this board. I know, however, four solid, looooong years into his Presidency I was still greeted daily with a banner of Clinton hugging Monica Lewinsky as well as one of a victoriously peering and dignified Ronald Reagan.

So...... get over it.

Also as an enlightening exercise, feel free to imagine the various captions one's biases may personally assign to the bookend picture after Bush's hour in the sun.



I can think of any number of places that's theoretically a pro-Bush image of "hard work" as well as numerous others where it's "hardly working" at all.

So as the phenomenologist said to the existentialist, it is all in your your head. To which the existentialist replied, who said that?

I don't have a problem with Anti-American posts here, provided I am given the oppertunity to reply to them with my own views in a civil manner. I enjoy a back and forth dialogue with someone with views other that my own. I try to avoid insulting someone's country but maybe I should change that and start doing some digging and see what I can find, as so many have done to my country. Should make for some interesting posts.

``

here's an excerpt from:
www.axisoflogic.com...

Keeping us divided

The first function of government naming enemies is to get us to attack them. The second most important function of having our enemies identifed for us is a diversionary tactic. By locating evil in external enemies we will never suspect the enemy to be found within ourselves, within our society and within our government. The government and its media provide us with a more appealing way of viewing ourselves - the enemy is evil - but we are good - and oh what a trap it is!

But the government and their media provide another layer of illusions insure our cooperation and keep us at bay. They have identified other 'enemies' for us among our own countrymen and within our own society. As a society we are divided on issues like abortion and single sex marriage and we learn to hate one another because of our respective views on matters like these. Moreover, the media foments more division among the people on less important and sometimes downright silly non-issues. We see our fellow citizens attacking one another with rhetoric wrapped in meaningless terms like 'Democrat'; 'Republican'; 'conservative'; 'ultra-conservative'; 'liberal',
'ultra-liberal' and 'extremist'.
The press feeds us obfuscating terms like 'moderates', 'moderate Republican', 'moderate Democrat', 'radical', 'extremist'; 'big government'.
We in turn use these tailor-made terms to identify ourselves.
One person sees a man in his pickup truck with a U.S. flag trailing and calls him a fool.
The man in the truck sees the other with an anti-war sticker on his bumper and calls him a traitor.
A woman sees another with a 'pro-life' pin on her laper with disgust.
The woman with the pin looks at the 'pro-choice' sticker of the other and sees a baby-killer.
There is nothing the U.S. government fears more than an educated and united population an ignorant, divided population is one that is easily controlled...one that will never mount a serious challenge to those who weild power and keep them subservient.

__________________________ * ____________________________

related & background material
Sep 24th-> www.axisoflogic.com...
Nurenberg>www.axisoflogic.com...

~~~~~~~~~~~

the 'polls' as fickle as they are...
leads one to conclude the population is getting wise to the neocon regime which has wrested power & control of this republic.
Pres. Bush has job approval below 40%
no on Iraq @ 65%+
etc.

it could get very tense throughout this board & the nation;
today,
those who oppose the PTB, might be labeled as anti-american
tomorrow,
those same (misidentified) 'anti-american' voices...could be
labeled as 'terrorists' under an extreme interpetation of the Patriot-Acts I&2
...

[edit on 21-9-2005 by St Udio]

[edit on 21-9-2005 by St Udio]

I think the article below explains a lot. I love America (the US) but if we look at the nation as a whole, if we look at all aspects of the country from it's people and land to its government and foreign policy, with even a little bit of an objective eye, I must acknowledge that we've got some big problems around the world and, for the most part, we're not handling them very well.

I think this perceived 'anti-Americanism' is simply people talking about the issues and problems that the US has in taking care of its people, getting along with others, respecting other countries and so on.

To deny that these problems exist and go on to praise the US as being the 'greatest country in the world' is simply blind allegiance. Our leader sucks, our foreign policy is bullyish and arrogant. Our economy is failing. Our environmental policies are raping and abusing the earth. We have criminals in the highest positions in the government. And our media is ignoring it all.

How anyone can IGNORE these glaringly obvious faults in the name of 'team loyalty' is far beyond me. I love the US, too, but I can see. We've got some real problems. And I feel it's my duty to notice them and point them out.

If you call that 'anti-Americanism', then so be it.

Shunning

Many outside the US have waited patiently for them to outgrow their juvenile delinquency, but they show no sign of maturing. We have waited patiently for the good citizens of the US to corral the bad, but they persist in failing to do so. And now that they are acting out again and threatening the peace and security of the entire planet, it is high time that the rest of us took matters into our own hands.

The rest of the world should join hands and shun the United States.

America, the country, really does believe it is better than anyone else. That America is entitled to as much of the resources and riches of the planet as it wants and it doesn’t matter whomever else might have to suffer or go short. That all other nations are enemies if they don’t march to the American drum in virtually any arena you might mention. That it has the right, indeed the obligation, to enforce its will wherever it sees fit, and by whatever means it wants. That it has the right to invade sovereign nations as a way of deflecting attention from domestic political scandals or if there is some new weapon that needs a good field testing. That killing of foreign civilians doesn’t really count because they’re always in season and there’s no quota. That a bullet-ridden and trigger-happy American society is in every way superior to any other place on earth.

Astonishingly, Americans as a group have a hard time grasping that other folks might be a little annoyed about all that.

If CANADA (our serene and peaceful neighbor to the north) feels this way about the US, imagine how some of the nations we regularly treat badly feel about us!

I wish someone who is leveling this accusation of rampant anti-American sentiment would have the guts to come out and define 'anti-Americanism'. If the picture of Bush getting out of the plane is what you mean, then you clearly equate Bush with America. And he's just one aspect (temporary at that) of America. A flash in the pan. That man is NOT America. He's about as far from the ideal of these United States of America as you can get.

'America' is rapidly falling away from its own roots. It's being stripped of the best of what we used to stand for. I may be a romantic in that I'm still in love with the ideal, but I cannot and will not embrace the ugly product that it is becoming under the care (and negligence) of such incompetent and ignorant 'leadership'.

Bush isn't the first president to lie or cause problems with other countries, America has been arrogant and gluttonous for sometime now, but the reputation of 'spoiled little rich country' has turned into 'evil empire' under his watchful eye. And I'm very much against that. And proud to say so.

This should have been a PODcast...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Of course this site is anti-american.

believing this requires a great deal of faith.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It is a conspiracy site. Conspiracy is usually considered a bad or dirty thing. The US is by far the best (yes, I said it - my country is better then any other), most wealthy, most powerful nation in the world. Thus, they dominate everything that is important. Add to that that the US is currently engaged in war, and a lot of people here dislike the US, and blame it for the worlds problems.

speaking of leaping, HOLY LEAPING LOGIC! 'conspiracy' is a 'dirty' word, so america the clean is sullied by the very existence of said word?
(p.s. when you say america dominates everything important, then you must realise the inherent responsibility for the state of the world.
and in a marvel of reasoning, you say that a lot of people here dislike the us because of it's unpopular war......most these people are AMERICANS, and not liking a war or your current government does not equal 'dislike' of the US. try not to contradict yourself within one paragraph. it'll make you popular at parties, and you can impress freinds and relatives.)

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Frankly, this sentiment has not been growing, because growing would suggest that it had not reached it's maximum level yet. Since I have joined this site, and even before when I simply viewed it for reading material, it has had a distinctly anti-US flavor.

you have a distinctly anti-american vibe.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I would venture to say of that 67%, more then half honestly dislike the US because they are self loathing liberals.

'self loathing liberals'? i thought there was no more of that around here. can some one warn this madman?

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I would venture to say of that 67%, more then half honestly dislike the US because they are self loathing liberals.

'self loathing liberals'? i thought there was no more of that around here. can some one warn this madman?

Actually madman, they want to be called progressives now. I just heard it on the radio so you get your labels straight, Mr.!

I'll start by saying what Anti-Americanism is not:

1. It is not about the criticism of a particular American leader, or the policy of a particular administration.

2. It is not about expecting America to be are responsible global citizen.

3. It is not about what nation a person making Anti-American statements is from. In fact, there are probably more Anti-Americans in the USA than there are in most other nations.

= = = =

So here's a first try at defining what Anti-Americanism is.

1. It is the holding of America to an unreasonable standard, that other nations are not held to. (This is what is wrong with the Kyoto accords).

2. It is resentment of America's wealth and power, and the demand that the US be "made to pay extra" simply because it has more right now, or has made more, of itself than other nations have currently attained.

3. It is the idea that America somehow doesn't "deserve" things that other nations wish they had for themselves.

4. It is the idea that America is not entitled to purchase global resources that it can pay for. An example is that, because America uses more of the earth's resources, it is somehow bad or wicked. If America pays the same prices in the global spot market for oil, that are offered to all the other nations of the earth, then why shouldn't the US, or any nation be justified in purchasing what it can pay for?

5. It is hoping that Americans suffer. It means justifying murder, by saying that "Americans deserve it," due to foreign policy. It means being gleeful when disaster strikes the US.

6. It is rooting against America. It means hoping that the US economy worsens. It means hoping that large numbers of American soldiers die in battle. It means hoping that something horrible happens to the US, so that US politicians might get blamed, and then be driven from office.

7. It is the demand that America become more like some other country, with respect to its laws, its political system, its economy, or its military power.

8. It is the idea that America should somehow benefit the citizens of other nations or serve their interests, when it is not in the USA's interest to do so.

9. It is the idea that foreigners have any legitimate say in how the US chooses its leaders, enforces its laws or conducts its business.

10. It is the idea that anything America produces is automatically ugly, cheap, or morally improper. Whether it be music, food, movies, or software. Examples include diatribes on American obesity, gluttony, sloth, immorality, or ignorance.
Certainly, all of those vices can be evidenced in the US, and perhaps more so than other nations. But a fascination with particularly American shortcomings, accompanied with a glossing-over of the failings of other nations, shows an innate dislike of America and a search for proof that America is unworthy of the blessing bestowed upon it.

There. Hows that.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Many outside the US have waited patiently for them to outgrow their juvenile delinquency, but they show no sign of maturing. We have waited patiently for the good citizens of the US to corral the bad, but they persist in failing to do so. And now that they are acting out again and threatening the peace and security of the entire planet, it is high time that the rest of us took matters into our own hands.

The rest of the world should join hands and shun the United States.

America, the country, really does believe it is better than anyone else. That America is entitled to as much of the resources and riches of the planet as it wants and it doesn’t matter whomever else might have to suffer or go short. That all other nations are enemies if they don’t march to the American drum in virtually any arena you might mention. That it has the right, indeed the obligation, to enforce its will wherever it sees fit, and by whatever means it wants. That it has the right to invade sovereign nations as a way of deflecting attention from domestic political scandals or if there is some new weapon that needs a good field testing. That killing of foreign civilians doesn’t really count because they’re always in season and there’s no quota. That a bullet-ridden and trigger-happy American society is in every way superior to any other place on earth.

Astonishingly, Americans as a group have a hard time grasping that other folks might be a little annoyed about all that.

Here's my reply to "How Canada Feels"

All I did was cut and paste. My editorial improvements are italicized.

Many inside the US have waited patiently for the rest of the world to outgrow their juvenile delinquency, but they show no sign of maturing. We have waited patiently for the good citizens of the world to corral the bad, but they persist in failing to do so. And now that they are acting out again and threatening the peace and security of the entire planet, it is high time that the [] us took matters into our own hands.

The US should join hands and shun the rest of the world .

The world really does believe it is better than America, the country. That the world is entitled to as much of the resources and riches of the USA as it wants and it doesn’t matter how many Americans might have to suffer or go short. That the USA is an enemy if they don’t march to the global drum in virtually any arena you might mention. That the world has the right, indeed the obligation, to enforce its will wherever it sees fit, and by whatever means it wants. That everyone else has the right to invade the USA as a way of deflecting attention from domestic economic scandals or if there is some new WMD that needs a good field testing. That killing of Americans doesn’t really count because they’re always in season and there’s no quota. That a defenseless and feeble world society is in every way superior to the USA

Astonishingly, many nations as a group have a hard time grasping that we might be a little annoyed about all that.

= = =

Funny how many will think that one essay is spot on, and the other shows a deep bigotry and elitist bullying.


[edit on 21-9-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

I think the article below explains a lot. I love America (the US) but if we look at the nation as a whole, if we look at all aspects of the country from it's people and land to its government and foreign policy, with even a little bit of an objective eye, I must acknowledge that we've got some big problems around the world and, for the most part, we're not handling them very well.

Its easy to way that we aren't handling problems right when things go wrong. It is important at those times to stay the course. Lets see what the final outcome is before we go bashing our involvement.

You have voted dr_strangecraft for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Bravo. I stopped coming here a couple of months back because as an american with a conservative bent I felt unwelcome. Rita has me peaking back in because, in some matters, the people here are truly well eductated.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I'll take a stab at defining anti-Americanism.
...
There. Hows that.

Thank you. Well done!

Just to do my own checklist against your very well thought out post:

1. I don't hold America to an unreasonable standard. I hold us to the standards upon which the country was founded.

2. I have always been proud to be a citizen of a wealthy and powerful country and I don't think there should be a penalty for working hard to get where we are.

3. I know jealousy and envy exist out there and most likely contribute to a feeling of anti-Americanism. I say too bad. Jealousy is an ugly thing.

4. I don't think America is bad or wicked for simply using more than anyone else, as long as we pay for it. (I do think we should consider the environment, though. Sometimes money isn't the only price being paid and that's where I have issues about America's behavior)

5. I certainly don't hope Americans suffer, nor do I experience glee when disaster strikes. And while nobody deserves to be murdered, I think we need to look hard at our foreign policy as part of the reason other countries hate us.

It's like the woman who gets repeatedly raped and yet continues to walk, unarmed down the same alley every night. The rape is not her fault but she should reconsider her practices that bring about the same result. She has to be accountable at some point and so do we.

6. I wish no harm against America or Americans. (I do think we are in desperate need of new leadership.)

7. America is unique and beautiful. There is no reason to be like anyone else.

8. I actually think we are too involved in other nations. There's plenty to do here to help our citizens before helping the rest of the world. I wish we were as concerned about our starving children and homeless people as we seem to be about other countries'.

9. The US has the Constitution to tell us how to run our country. There is no need for others to do so.

10. Again, America is unique. We have idiotic morons and brilliant geniuses and everything in between. We have good, bad and ugly. And it's not my place to judge other countries. I hold America to its own standard.

I am only 'fascinated' with America's shortcomings in that I love this country and don't want her to fall. I see signs and warnings around me that we're headed over a cliff. And to stand by and ignore this and pretend that everything is fine (and rah! rah! for the home team) is doing a grave disservice to the country that I love so much.

I think there are too many assumptions made when someone criticizes American practices or leadership. For example, just because I ask the country to look at it's foreign policy does NOT mean we deserve to be killed and that I'm thrilled at every American soldier who bites the dust. That's ridiculous and requires a huge leap of logic.

If you (and others who see anti-Americanism) listen to what people are saying instead of assuming what they mean, you might not see nearly as much Anti-American sentiment as you think, but merely concern about the country that we love.

A mother who calls her son to task about failing grades doesn't do it because she hates her son, she does it because she loves him.

A father who finds drug paraphernalia in his daughter's room and ignores it, thinking that all will be fine, isn't serving his daughter. He's serving his own selfish fantasy.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I think the site is heavily skewed in the direction of junior in high school through sophomore in college.

You may be right. I'm in my late 40s.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The problem is not getting worse, it has always been here and, unfortunately, it a perspective that is in vogue, not only abroad, but also among too many Americans. Patriotism began to become unpopular during the sixties and while it has gained in acceptability in some quarters, it has never regained acceptability in the academy.

I will say this, however, about this board. Almost any negative generalization toward any group or entity, even written in jest or tongue-in-cheek, is likely to garner a warning, unless, of course, such a generalization is directed toward the USA. America bashing is considered fair game for intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals alike.

I don't think that patriotism became unpopular during the 60's necessarily. I think that people who were serving their own agenda changed the definition of the word to something that would support their ends. Anyone who disagreed with what they were doing, were then unpatriotic. Hmmm, kind of sounds like what is going on right now....

As far as anti american views, i dont necessarily think that is an accurate way of looking at the picture. There are many people in this country who are easily manipulated and are blinded by the need to be on the side that is right (right meaning correct or true, not a political term). There are many of this country who love it with all of their hearts and minds, yet are so disgusted with what we have become (especially in a post 911 world) that they cannot support what they know to be unjust - and suddenly they are anti american because they dont agree with what the media and the government says about "how it is". One must only travel beyond our own borders to see that most people in the world have a VERY different view than those of this government. This goes beyond Democratic & Republican. This is about the corrupt and how they have overtaken our system of government - at most levels. We should be leading the world in areas of health care, education and scientific advancement - not military might (mostly is purly technological). Our dependence upon oil has usurped our values to the point where we must "defend our way of life at all costs". Our way of life.... What is that exactly? It took the destruction of a city by a natural disaster to rally support for each other. Everyday MANY people in this country are living in poverty who have lost everything. How can we dictate to others how to run their countries when we cannot even run our own. We dont run anything here anymore. Everyone is bought. Those of us who are the "middle class" are nothing more than working serf's, as slaves to a system we always had dreamed never to become a part of.