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Brittish troops held in Iraq - Oooops!

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posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel

I would believe you if you could show me ANYTHING that would back your claims up. But you cannot, as you are lying.


OBVIOUSLY you did not see the video.


I have seen the Video...about 400 times in fact. Its been all over the news here in the UK.

You have you facts back to front.

The video is a mish mash of events and if you see the video alone, it is easy to see where you have got confused.

The vehicle was retrieved during the second operation to release the men.

The first, where the Warriors were on fire, is when the cordon was first setup around the station, prior to the riot.

The british were forced to withdraw after that point, to return later, smash down the Police wall and subsequently locate the men and rescue them.

If you actually follow the chain of events, then you can see what happened, when and why.

The only weapons and explosives in that car were displayed by the Iraqi police. In that pile was nothing that you would not find on a British soldier anyway.

Do you honestly believe that the car (in the video being driven away and having stuff hurled at it, with Iraqis running around) was actually lined with explosive?

Think about that for a second....

Not even a half-brain dead womble would drive a car, packed with explosive (as in a car bomb) through a riotng crowd with TV crews watching.

Think about it and realise how absurd you claims are...




posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Hmmm...how srange..triple post.... sorry!

[edit on 21/9/05 by stumason]



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Hmmm...how srange..triple post.... sorry!

[edit on 21/9/05 by stumason]



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Hmmm...how srange..triple post.... sorry!

[edit on 21/9/05 by stumason]



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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An Iraqi Policeman was killed by these men.


Really? Now why hasn't that been elaborated on? It has been alleged, but not even the Iraqi Interior Ministry has confirmed that. However, two rioters were killed during the violence.



Semantics, look it up.



Is that the best you can do? You claim they are insurgents, I say they are dressed to mingle and you say semantics?

HAHA..what a joke. Of course insurgents look like locals, because they are. You cannot say that two guys dressed like locals were dressed like Insurgents, as they look the bloody same, but you cannot prove they were dressed like insurgents and in fact your claims are baseless.



That's why they were in a prison?


What are you on? They weren't!



Two British soldiers whose imprisonment prompted UK troops to storm a Basra police station were later rescued from militia, the Ministry of Defence says.
Brigadier John Lorimer said it was of "deep concern" the men detained by police ended up held by Shia militia.

Source






Some people will do all they can to avoid seeing a conspiracy when it taits their comic book heros VS villans ideals.


hahaha..comic book ideals? I suppose now your lumping me with the Bush loving crowd who only see black and white? Come on man, I have been on this forum a while and have posted plenty. I do NOT have comic book ideals and I am quite capable of seeing a conspiracy where there is good evidence of there being one. There is just no evidence of it here.

For gods sake man, I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but I don't believe for one moment these guys were up to anything other than recon/intel gathering.

The men were part of the Special Recon Squadron. Do you know what that is?

Its a unit specifically designed for.....yup...you guessed it....recon.

It does not take part in the sharp end of spec ops as it frees up the SAS and SBS for that.

These guys aren't even SAS, they are drawn from volunteers in the Paras and other commando units, but they're not SAS.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

An Iraqi Policeman was killed by these men.

Really? Now why hasn't that been elaborated on? It has been alleged, but not even the Iraqi Interior Ministry has confirmed that. However, two rioters were killed during the violence.


Probably because like the rest of this story it's been spun to focus on the attacks and protest directed at the Bristish and ignoring the reason these guys were dressed up as arabs with a boot full of weapons to begin with.

I've read a few articles that mention it quiet clearly. Why haven't you found them? Also the Telegraph mentioned 5 people were killed in the 'rescue'.




Semantics, look it up.

Is that the best you can do? You claim they are insurgents, I say they are dressed to mingle and you say semantics?

HAHA..what a joke. Of course insurgents look like locals, because they are. You cannot say that two guys dressed like locals were dressed like Insurgents, as they look the bloody same, but you cannot prove they were dressed like insurgents and in fact your claims are baseless.


So your saying insurgents and general public dress differently?? Is that how the Troops know who they are killing when they say they killed 40 insurgents? Or wait, your saying they are the same and there's no difference! Well, what element would make a difference?
I wouldn't call a car boot full of weapons part of everyday Iraqi gear but if you want to look at this from the 'troops are good' side, then fine, they were just dressed as regular Iraqi's as opposed to Insurgents if you ignore the weapons they had on them, we'll just focus on the wigs.




That's why they were in a prison?

What are you on? They weren't!


Which makes it even more suspicious as to why they knocked down a prison wall and free upto 150 prisoners doesnt it. They must of been pretty important soliders for the military to rush into a decision that risks lives and spreads more crime when they didn't have the full information as to where these people actually were. Of course, we'll defend that and focus more on the molotovs that were thrown at a British tank because that's better news as it shows us simple westerners that the Iraqi's were actually the bad guys.




Some people will do all they can to avoid seeing a conspiracy when it taits their comic book heros VS villans ideals.


hahaha..comic book ideals? I suppose now your lumping me with the Bush loving crowd who only see black and white? Come on man, I have been on this forum a while and have posted plenty. I do NOT have comic book ideals and I am quite capable of seeing a conspiracy where there is good evidence of there being one. There is just no evidence of it here.

For gods sake man, I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but I don't believe for one moment these guys were up to anything other than recon/intel gathering.

The men were part of the Special Recon Squadron. Do you know what that is?

Its a unit specifically designed for.....yup...you guessed it....recon.

It does not take part in the sharp end of spec ops as it frees up the SAS and SBS for that.

These guys aren't even SAS, they are drawn from volunteers in the Paras and other commando units, but they're not SAS.



Right. Support the troops! SAS is how the press are reporting it and considering the spin going on now, SAS would need to have their operations kept out of the media, but fine, we'll call them what ever you want.
One quesition: Do recon missions ususally come with a boot full of high powered weapons, rocket launchers and bomb making equipment? Wouldn't that be a bad thing incase, hell, they get caught!? Why the weapons if they are only using their eyes? Did they find cameras and video in the boot? A notepad??? Why more fire power than needed for two people on a intel gathering mission?

I'm not here to prove anything to you or to make you believe otherwise but i can tell you right now that if these guys weren't caught, Al-Zarqawi would of been on the news this week proclaiming some act which results in a larger troop presence in southern Iraq, already they've said they will increase troops when last week they were sending some home.
As it stands, Al-Zarqawi will probably be on the news soon wagging the dog for this inncident soon.

There was a massive over reaction to an event which is suspicious in the least, now your lucky to find a press report which isn't focusing on the reaction of the Iraqis rather than focusing on why the event occured in the first place. That stinks of spin and spin is used to cover tracks.




[edit on 22-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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These poor men where simply going to a costume party!

tragic



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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Italian news agency says one iraqi police man killed, and countless wounded civilians.

This was before any riot, this was the REASON that the two spies where arrested.



www.iraq-war.ru...

c) According to the Italian press, when the British soldiers fired, two Iraqi police were shot and one of them died later. But that matters little for the mass media and no one seems to even know their names. The benevolent liberators are not perturbed by such small details of killing an Iraqi here and there!


5 civilians have died due to the barbaric destruction of the police station.

www.iraq-war.ru...


'Five Iraqi civilians killed' in SAS rescue operation
By: telegraph.co on: 21.09.2005 [21:52] (318 reads)


(3478 bytes) Print
'Five Iraqi civilians killed' in SAS rescue operation
(Filed: 21/09/2005)

In pics: troops under attack

Five Iraqi civilians died in clashes surrounding the controversial operation to free two British SAS men captured in Basra, it was claimed today.

Iraqi police said the latest two died in hospital today after being wounded as British troops stormed a police station jail on Monday.


Why are you trying to wriggle out of this so hard anyway, Don't you SEE that It's already over. ? I would jump ship now if i was you and not sink with it.



[edit on 22-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

I'm not here to prove anything to you or to make you believe otherwise but i can tell you right now that if these guys weren't caught, Al-Zarqawi would of been on the news this week proclaiming some act which results in a larger troop presence in southern Iraq, already they've said they will increase troops when last week they were sending some home.
As it stands, Al-Zarqawi will probably be on the news soon wagging the dog for this inncident soon.


LOL, your expert opinion right ? You know Memphis, I am concerned about your overall health, and wish nothing but the best for you. Fortunately, just because we disagree, doesn’t mean the majority of members can't draw their own conclusions. Kinda funny how all the hard core Iraq conspiracists will jump onto any news story and spin it, no matter if the facts don't point that way


There was a massive over reaction to an event which is suspicious in the least, now your lucky to find a press report which isn't focusing on the reaction of the Iraqis rather than focusing on why the event occured in the first place. That stinks of spin and spin is used to cover tracks.




[edit on 22-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

Mod Edit: Removed personal attack on member, and inserted a substitute phrase worthy of Barney.

[edit on 22/9/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Five Iraqi civilians died in clashes surrounding the controversial operation to free two British SAS men captured in Basra, it was claimed today.

Iraqi police said the latest two died in hospital today after being wounded as British troops stormed a police station jail on Monday.


Why are you trying to wriggle out of this so hard anyway, Don't you SEE that It's already over. ? I would jump ship now if i was you and not sink with it.


How were these people killed and who says it was the British. It could have been Iraqi policeman shooting wildly, hardly an uncommon event over there. At least Brit soldiers have fire discipline



[edit on 22-9-2005 by rogue1]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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Looks likes we have got ourselves a couple of weapons experts.

stumason and Zaphod58,

tell me where, did you recieve your training?


I have read your thread. i have also seen the pictures of the stuff siezed by the Iraqi "Police". Nothing in that picture is out of the ordinary for a recon unit of the SRS to have on them. Care to point out where the huge amount of explosives are? Coz they're not in the picture.


What is that black box with a white sticker over it, with all the wires hanging out? You must also have xray vision because you know for absolute sure there are no explosives in those two big black back packs at the back. OR as billybob said you must have used your all seeing eye!!! LOL

And your so very sure are you.

[qoute] And "references" are nothing compared to proof. Quoting some Iraqi "Police" (who are in colusion with insurgents) saying they found explosives is not evidence.

Then let me ask you this. IF those particular police taht arrested the two men, where actually resistance infiltrators. Then why did they chase a car of what looked like fellow resistance fighters?

I await your response.



Not to mention that there's no way there is a couple of hundred pounds of explosive in that pile of equipment.


Well there seems to be alot of room since thats alot of equipment.
And if your the type of person that can easily belive that someone can strap explosives to their body, and move through crouds undetected and still cause alot of damage, then one wonders.
Selective reasoning perhaps? Dare i say it, DOUBLE THINK?

I await your response to these questions.



billy bob

HAHAHAHA BRILLIANT!



"i know!, ....uh, ....they were actually TRIPLE AGENTS! who had infiltrated both the evil iraqi police, the shiite and sunni resistance, and the british army. BRILLIANT in it's impossibility!!! "



Stussmon


What are you on? They weren't!


Prove it. Because even though the british government and the puppet outside basrah are saying that the mehdi army had them.

The basra government officials are saying otherwise.


news.yahoo.com...

"Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabr disputed the British account. He told the British Broadcasting Corp. the two soldiers never left police custody or the jail, were not handed over to militants, and that the British army acted on a "rumor" when it stormed the jail."

"The Basra governor threatened to end all cooperation with British forces unless Prime MinisterTony Blair's government apologizes for the deadly clash with Iraqi police. Britain defended the raid."


Now the basra government officials would know more about what was really going on. Where as the Puppets ouside basra would have just heard what the US told them, and relayed it.

No solid evidence exists to suggest, they where outside the prison. However all the photographic evidence supports the notion that they WHERE in the prison.

IF you knew that the british spies where no longer in prison, then why oh why did you break down the prison walls with 5 tanks and to helicopters?

[edit on 22-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

What is that black box with a white sticker over it, with all the wires hanging out? You must also have xray vision because you know for absolute sure there are no explosives in those two big black back packs at the back. OR as billybob said you must have used your all seeing eye!!! LOL


LOL, we can assume that if there were explosives in the car then they would be on display not hidden in some rucksack. These people are very adept a propaganda adn wuldn't have allowed the explosives to be hidden in the picture. Actually they would have tried to make it as obvious as possible. So the obvious and logical conclusion is that there were no explosives.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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Rogue


How were these people killed and who says it was the British. It could have been Iraqi policeman shooting wildly, hardly an uncommon event over there. At least Brit soldiers have fire discipline


The civilians where injured during the british attack on the iraqi police station.
There are videos out of the riot. I haven't yet heard or seen of any report or any video that says the puppet police fired a single shot!


As for your soldiers having "fire discipline"


US troops kill Iraqi police, civilians
By: abc.net on: 09.01.2005 [12:28 ] (53 reads)

US troops kill Iraqi police, civilians
US troops who opened fire after being targeted by a roadside bomb have killed two Iraqi policemen and two civilians south of Baghdad on Saturday, an Interior Ministry spokesman said on Sunday.



Mortar attack targets US-Iraqi military checkpoint in Fallujah
By: Xinhuanet on: 07.05.2005 [00:53] (263 reads)


FALLUJAH, Iraq, May 6 (Xinhuanet) — A mortar attack hit a checkpoint jointly manned by US and Iraqi forces in southern Fallujah, causing casualties, witnesses said on Friday.

US and Iraqi soldiers opened fire randomly while responding to the attack which took place Thursday night and killed a civilian and wounded three others, witnesses at the scene said.



I have alot more examples i can give upon request.

You ever hear when the news says , civilians where "caught in the cross fire"
well that is a white wash of the truth, the fact that civilians where shot dead by gungho occupation troops who where so affraid for their lives after an attack that they open fire indiscriminatly, killing civliians.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, your expert opinion right ? You know Memphis you should lay of the pot,it already seems to be turning you into a paranoid schizophrenic. Luckily the rantings of a deluded mad man aren't seen by the majority as fact.

Kinda funny how all the hard core Iraq conspiracists will jump onto any news story and spin it, no matter if the facts don't point that way



Oh please Rogue, abuse me more, i love it!!
Call me dirty names, please!!!
Tell me that the 'enemy' are my friends, tell me i hate the troops, tell me i hate America. Oooo Ahhh, yeah, abuse me more.


Way to contribute tiger

Do you have anything of worth to add or are you just trying to bait me?

I never said i was an expert but i bet i'll be proven right. You don't have to believe me, that's fine, i couldn't possibly care less but to get on a high chair to tell me i'm wrong with a slurry of insults is just pathetic when your not providing anything of worth to the discussion. God forbid we turn a conspiracy forum into a place to discuss conspiracies!! If there is no conspiracy then put this on ATSNN or BTS.

Time will tell anyway but let history state, i won't be 'shocked' by Al-Zarqawi's next bad quality audio tape associated with an event in Iraq, probably in or around Basra.





[edit on 22-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:28 AM
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Car bomb = 2-3 HUNDRED pounds of explosive. Black vest = 2-3 pounds of explosive, IF it has explosive in it. Black box = 10-15 AT THE MOST, and that's IF it carries explosives. If you're going to put a bomb on the side of the road, with just a pile of explosives, 2-3 pounds wouldn't do a whole lot. Even 10-15 wouldn't do a lot because it would spread out in all directions, which would dissipate the blast somewhat. Unless you are using shaped charges, or mines, which were NOT in evidence in that picture. Just like there was NO WAY there was 2-300 pounds of explosive there.

I'd like to point out how at the start of the thread, it was all about the CAR full of explosive. So what does a car full of explosive have to do with suicide vests?

[edit on 9/22/2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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LOL, we can assume that if there were explosives in the car then they would be on display not hidden in some rucksack. These people are very adept a propaganda adn wuldn't have allowed the explosives to be hidden in the picture. Actually they would have tried to make it as obvious as possible. So the obvious and logical conclusion is that there were no explosives.


That makes absolutely no sense, your saying "these people" want to show that there are explosives and hence took a picture of the absense of explosives???

Wether or not there are explosives in that picture, is disputed.

If you can show me that you have some training in explosives recognition, then perhaps i will take your opinion in to account.

I wait for you to produce such evidence.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Wether or not there are explosives in that picture, is disputed.

If you can show me that you have some training in explosives recognition, then perhaps i will take your opinion in to account.

I wait for you to produce such evidence.



In the very least, there was bomb making equipment as reported by most major press. It may not be hundreds of pounds of ready explosives at all but there was equipment which enabled these men to create bombs of some description if needed. This is reported outside Middle Eastern press if some people here have a problem with those sources, it's being mentioned in Australian press quiet openly.

Why a couple guys on "recon" would need such equipment is beyond me but none the less, it was present amongst other equipment which would be very bad in the hands of an insurgency and to me personally, makes no sense in carrying unless it's to be used.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
That makes absolutely no sense, your saying "these people" want to show that there are explosives and hence took a picture of the absense of explosives???

Wether or not there are explosives in that picture, is disputed.

If you can show me that you have some training in explosives recognition, then perhaps i will take your opinion in to account.


What I am saying is if there were explosives in the bags ( as you say ), they would have taken them out, to make it as obvious as possible they were explosives. They didn't which leaves me to the conclusion that they didn't have any.
The onus is on you to produce a clearly definable picture of the explosives the Brits were supposed to be carrying. You are the one making the alegations not me.



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Oh please Rogue, abuse me more, i love it!!
Call me dirty names, please!!!
Tell me that the 'enemy' are my friends, tell me i hate the troops, tell me i hate America. Oooo Ahhh, yeah, abuse me more.


You aren't a masochist are you ?
Look, I'm not american and I'm not British, so your feelings towards the troops don't bother me.



I never said i was an expert but i bet i'll be proven right. You don't have to believe me, that's fine, i couldn't possibly care less but to get on a high chair to tell me i'm wrong with a slurry of insults is just pathetic when your not providing anything of worth to the discussion. God forbid we turn a conspiracy forum into a place to discuss conspiracies!! If there is no conspiracy then put this on ATSNN or BTS.


Well it helps to have a tiny bit of truthful evidence to back up your conspiarcy. All I see is many opinions with no evidence except for inuendo and BS. Yours just stood out when I was reading the last page, hence why you copped it.
Well I'm not exactly sure what worhtwhiliness you're providing to the conversation, as you present no facts just a your strange opinion.


Time will tell anyway but let history state, i won't be 'shocked' by Al-Zarqawi's next bad quality audio tape associated with an event in Iraq, probably in or around Basra.


LOL, you'd be shocked if they caught him though ?







[edit on 22-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

In the very least, there was bomb making equipment as reported by most major press. It may not be hundreds of pounds of ready explosives at all but there was equipment which enabled these men to create bombs of some description if needed. This is reported outside Middle Eastern press if some people here have a problem with those sources, it's being mentioned in Australian press quiet openly.


Yes lol, ' bomb making ' equipment. If they had a pair of plyers and some wire, it could be called ' bomb making ' equipment. Don't read to much into that.
The question is were there any explosives or precursors to explosives found ? Why have bomb making equipment with no bombs ?

The answer seems to be no, there were non exposives found and no precursors to explosives.





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