Brittish troops held in Iraq - Oooops!

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posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 12:16 AM
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"The Iraqi's were already fighting each other, Sunni against Shiite. This wasn't because of the Americans"

That is untrue, don't ever underesteemate how much iraqies love their country, and how much.

Sure there was some rivalry, but never has sunni's and shi'ites bombed each other before in iraq. Surely someone has something to benefit from this esca

One only needs to look at how the sunni and Shia resistance is united that you know the US will never succeed in their plans to begin civil war.




HOME RULE by NIR ROSEN

A young boy from Najaf wearing a pressed white shirt tucked neatly into bluejeans walked up to the lectern, and the microphone was lowered to accommodate him. The boy raised his right arm, pointing his index finger at the sky. “I came to praise the heroes of Falluja!” he shouted. His poem ended with calls to God—“Ya Allah! Ya allah!”—that he screamed out. Then he began to sob, and he was led away, wiping his tears. The men in the front row of plastic chairs embraced and kissed him, and he returned to the lectern and recited another poem. This time, he brandished a Kalashnikov that was as long as he was tall.



Sunnis Rescue Shiites During Bridge Melee www.tampatrib.com...




"I am a son of Iraq and I call on all Christians and Muslims to expel the Americans from Iraq," Baghdadi added.



' "It's true that the Americans are Christians and we are Christians. But they should not associate us with them. All the Christians want the Americans to get out and the occupation to end. Nobody is with the Americans," said Father Gabriel Shamami, who leads the St. George's Church in Baghdad.'


It doesn't matter their creed or their religion, iraqies are iraqies, united in resistance against hte occupation.



"LOL, these bombings are carried iout by sick individuals"


I agree, Sick sick SICK individuals.


"who witnesses say were Iraqi aren't "


Show me some witnesses, the only you thing that tells you that they where iraqi is the occupation and puppet government officials. The very people who set up the bomb in the first place.

The Evidence is clear rogue. they have been quote red handed.

AND by the way here's a tip , there does existed Shi'ite ba'athists incase you didn't know.

THE RIFT BETWEEN THE SHIA AND THE SUNNI WAS NOT AS STRONG AS THE WESTERN MEDIA MAKES THEM OUT TO BE.

IT IS OBVIOUS THEY DO THIS FOR THEIR OWN REASON.

* The first Shi‘i to be appointed minister of defense in Iraq – Staff General Sa‘di Tu‘mah al-Jabburi – was named to that post in the time of the rule of the Baath Party.


* The first Shi‘i to be appointed chief of staff of the Iraqi Army – Lieutenant General ‘Abd al-Wahid Shannan Al Ribat – was named to that post in the time of the rule of the Baath.


* The person who held the post of Iraqi Foreign Minister the longest was Shi‘i and that took place in the time the Baath ruled the country. Dr. Sa‘dun Hammadi had that honor. Then the post was held throughout the 1990s by Muhammad Sa‘id as-Sahhaf, and he was also Shi‘i.


* The person who held the post of Minister of Petroleum in the Baathi period was Shi‘i – Dr. Sa‘dun Hammadi.


There is many many more examples, but i'm not here to make the ba'ath look good. I'm simply showing you.

Don't belive everything you here from teh lying western media, they make play things up like and make them bigger than what they really are just to suit their own purposes.



IF they don't want to stay in iraq rogue, then they would just leave. BUt as it where, they are building perminant bases. And strong pipelines.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]




posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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This storey is full of lies, propagander and unknowns. Nobody on here was there, nobody here knows what really happened and both sides are trying to spin the news reports for there own political reasons. I thought this site was about denying ignorance???????????



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 04:45 AM
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The thing is no matter what side you see THIS story coming from you get...

Two british military in arabic clothing shooting civilians/police.

They get caught...

They are then broken out by british military.

No one disputes that at all.... Not even fox news!

These dumbasses got caught and have now showed us what a farce this whole war is turning out to be. The worst part is then the frigin british military goes in and rescues them... WTF?

If they werent working FOR the military there is absolutley no way the brits would be dumb enough to risk this sort of political/public backlash to get them out.

Thus.. They were on a known military mission.. They did shoot civilians.. They did get caught.. and they were broken out.

If that logic is clear and I'm pretty sure it is we need to do something about the idiots in charge of our military US and British alike!



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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PAPERPLANE_UK : hear , hear !

it is a very strage story , which is why i posted it . EVERYONE involved has a lot of explaining to do

my initial reactions :

why would the bittish troops fire on anyone , unless attacked in force

why were they unsupported , my ideas of common sense would have tasjked at least a platoon to act as QRF to support them if they encountered trouble

the iraqis seem to have been very level headed in detaining them without a blood bath , i mean no slight to the profesionalism / integrity of the iraqi security services but . " shot while resisting arrest " was a result i expected

but the development of them alledgedkly being turned over to a local malitia was very worrying


the alledged " vehicle full of weapons and explosices " has not been produced


my personal take is that the bittish forces have shot themselves in the foot big time , and the only people to benefit will be the islamist extreemists



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Personally I think this was an intel operation gone bad. I don't think there was a "car full of explosives" at all. The only person that has said anything about a car full of explosives is an unamed source in the interior ministry.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 05:25 AM
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The two intelligence types should have been handed over to British Authorities, those are the terms of the occupation. The Iraqi Interior Ministry ordered them handed over. Basra did not comply. The British Army then went to get them, searched the jail and found them in the custody of local Shi'ite militia in a building nearby.

Basra is no longer responding to the central government in Bahgdad, Tehran maybe, but not Bahgdad.

About time we left them to it if you ask me.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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ZAPHOD : most likley , yup .

what gets me is the apparent lack of any british planning for murphys law ,


for obvious reasons undercover opes cannot enjoy ` full transparency ` and intel sharing with the iraqi security forces

but unless the facts have been burried , they should have had a plan to address the posibility of screw up - and some better co ordination etc to avoid what did happen



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Yeah, but all the planning in the world, even with backup plans doesn't always keep Mr Murphy happy. It could be a case of someone saw a foreigner, pulled out a gun and shot at them, or something even more simple than that. Or hey, for all we know it was two British troops on pass, trying not to be obvious about being military, and something went wrong. Maybe it WASN'T an intel op. That's part of what is making me laugh about everyone screaming "Look at how EVIL the US and English governments are!", instead of waiting even a day or two to see what more comes out about this.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 06:37 AM
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You seem to be ignoring that the facts are, two british men, dressed up as iraqies, where shooting at iraqi police and iraqi civilians, and wounded several of them.

This is all in an attempt to make the resistance look bad and to spark civil war..



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 06:40 AM
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And you know this? You KNOW that this wasn't an intel mission gone bad? You KNOW that they weren't returning fire and fired first. You KNOW all the facts already, despite this happening TODAY.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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QUOTE : " You seem to be ignoring that the facts are, two british men, dressed up as iraqies, where shooting at iraqi police and iraqi civilians, and wounded several of them. "

cite these " facts " please ,



QUOTE : " This is all in an attempt to make the resistance look bad and to spark civil war.. "

why would the MOD want civil war ? you are just making this up as you go along



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape

cite these " facts " please ,


Ok.


Two killed in Iraq firefight

British forces and demonstrators exchanged gunfire in the southern city of Basra Monday leaving two civilians dead after two British men were arrested for allegedly gunning down an Iraqi police officer.

From the associated press. www.ynetnews.com...





Basra: Two British soldiers dressed like Arabs arrested by Iraqi police
19 Eylül 2005
17:07
Two British soldiers dressed like Arabs were arrested by the Iraqi police on Monday. Their car was also searched and mines and arms were seized...


Link




Monday's clashes stemmed from the arrest by Iraqi police on Sunday of two Britons, whom Iraqi police accused of planting bombs.

Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, September 19, 2005; 1:27 PM




The senior Iraqi official said he had been informed by the British military that they were undercover soldiers in civilian clothes. British military

authorities said they could not confirm the incident but were investigating.

www.alertnet.org...




www.cnn.com...

According to an Iraqi official they drove up to a crowded market, opened fire, wounding several people then fired at a police station, hitting one or two police officers.


(thanks for that zopah)

Besides the images show them in civilian clothes.



why would the MOD want civil war ? you are just making this up as you go along



"The point of trying to start a civil war would be?"

AS i said to Zopah,

The following are the points:

Divide and conquer - Get iraqies to start fighting each other instead of fighting the occupation. This will creat more opportunists vying for power, to collaborate with the occupiers.

Defame the Resistance- The US learned from vietnamn that a gorrilla army can only exist with a good civilian support base. These bombings are designed to get the iraqi people to distrust and dislike the iraqi resistance, and hence that would destroy the resistance.

Create a reason to stay - The brits and the US can now claim that they need to be in iraq longer to "protect the civilian population." ironically the people who they are killing.

From the horses mouth same day this all happened.

quote:
quote: UK may increase Iraq deployment
From correspondents in London
September 19, 2005
Britain said overnight it would, if necessary, increase the number of troops in Iraq as fears that the country is sliding towards civil war increase.

www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

They are building perminant bases, they need an excuse to stay as long as they want.

Are you begining to understand now?


[edit on 20-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

[Mod Edit - Trimmed link]

[edit on 20/9/05 by JAK]



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 07:17 AM
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Here's another update.

news.bbc.co.uk...


"Later in the day, however, I became more concerned about the safety of the two soldiers after we received information that they had been handed over to militia elements."

After troops broke into the police station to confirm the men were not there, they staged a rescue from a house in Basra, said the commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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ALLEGEDLY. ACCUSED. ACCORDING TO. Until ALL the facts come out, or even MORE facts come out than are out there now, people are jumping to conclusions, and deciding that they know the truth about things.

[edit on 9/20/2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Ok so what points can we agree on?

1. Two British special forces operatives (SAS/SBS whatever) were arrested for allegedly opening fire upon civilians and Iraqi policemen killing.
2. They should have been handed over to the British military no matter what, as per the agreement with the Iraqi government.
3. They were not released.
4. The British knocked down at least one wall with an armoured vehicle and in the ensuing chaos up to 150 prisoners (some captured by the coalition previously) escaped.

Whatever side you take, it is a bit of a mess.

www.indystar.com.../20050920/NEWS06/509200459/1012



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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link


The tired, unshaven pair were shown seated beside the disguises, an anti-tank missile, other weapons and communications equipment in Iraqi state television footage.



The pair sat forward in their chairs as police discussed the events that led to their detention. One recalled how a crowd formed around the British soldiers' car when they were detained.

Another pointed out that the pair had electronic positioning devices.

As their medical kit was searched, a policemen cautioned his colleagues that the black bag filled with medicine may have a bomb inside.

It may have been another joke. But some Iraqis may take it seriously after two and a half years of suicide bombings, shootings and kidnappings that have plagued the country since U.S. and British troops toppled Saddam Hussein.


anti tank weapons, small arms. communications equipment. medical kits. i hear nothing about bombs except some joke about bombs in the medical kits.


[edit on 20-9-2005 by deltaboy]



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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The kit in the vehicle is reportedly standard for SF units on patrol.

The 2 men were taken away from the police station AFTER the MOI had ordered their release. Its likely they were handed over to the militia thus putting their life in danger.

There is no evidence to confirm the UK opened fire first, and there is likely to be far more to this than anyone here will know.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 11:28 AM
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Well two iraqi police men where wounded or killed.

And several eye witnesses where reported as saying, that the two men shot at a crowd of iraqi and at the police.

There is no, shoot first shoot second. The police didn't shoot at all. They chased their car down and arrested them.

From the, Cnn article posted at the front of this thread.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Well two iraqi police men where wounded or killed.


Police? Just because they were wearing police uniforms doesn't mean they were police. I submit that they were milita dressed as police, whom the British special forces choose to eliminate. These two guys messed up their little operation.


Source
The chief of police in Basra admitted yesterday that he had effectively lost control of three-quarters of his officers and that sectarian militias had infiltrated the force and were using their posts to assassinate opponents.
Speaking to the Guardian, General Hassan al-Sade said half of his 13,750-strong force was secretly working for political parties in Iraq's second city and that some officers were involved in ambushes.

"I trust 25% of my force, no more."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Also note what happened to these two British once they were captured. They were being handed over to the local milita to be used as ransom. I think we can all drop the word police from this little story.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Well two iraqi police men where wounded or killed.

And several eye witnesses where reported as saying, that the two men shot at a crowd of iraqi and at the police.

Yeah and there where several eye witnesses in the london shooting in the tube but they proved to be inacurate at best, what makes these any better?


There is no, shoot first shoot second. The police didn't shoot at all. They chased their car down and arrested them.

From the, Cnn article posted at the front of this thread.

Mabye you didnt notice the fact that they handed them over to militia forces?

who were later found in the custody of militia forces.

www.guardian.co.uk...
Or..


Mr Reid told the BBC that the jail was targeted only after orders to release the British soldiers, given by local judges and the Iraqi minister of the interior, had been ignored

www.guardian.co.uk...


Or..

The soldiers, who were said to have been wearing Arab headdress, were accused of firing at Iraqi police when stopped at a road block

www.guardian.co.uk...

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]





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