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Gnostic suppression

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posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
interestingly:

www.newadvent.org...
great, if not the greatest, part of Gnostic literature, which has been saved from the general wreck of Gnostic writings, is preserved to us in three Coptic codices, commonly called the Askew, the Bruce, and the Akhmim Codex. The Askew Codex, of the fifth of sixth century, contains the lengthy treatise "Pistis Sophia", i.e. Faith-Wisdom. This is a work in four books, written between A.D. 250 and 300; the fourth book, however, is an adaptation of an earlier work. The first two books describe the fall of the Æon Sophia and her salvation by the Æon Soter; the last two books describe the origin of sin and evil and the need of Gnostic repentance.

I suppose that we could say that the text are indecipherable to moderns tho, infact I would tend to agree that almost anything from such a distant and alien context is going to be ultimately pretty unknowable.


Bear in mind that the CE was written in 1911, well before the Nag Hammadi discoveries (which also included a copy of the Pistis Sophia and the Apocryphon of John, found in these earlier codices).

I have an account of the find with a list of books here.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 24/9/2005 by roger_pearse]




posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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from that list:
Plato, Republic 588a-589b

!!

This is included in the Nag Hammadi library?? I am surprised!



posted on Sep, 24 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

(me quoted)

Know where I can buy a copy of the ancient Book of Zerubabel?
(Nygdan quote
"No, but interstingly tho somewhat of a digression:"



Distraction with long winded irelevant info so U seem right when U, nevermind. Is 2 billion Christians not interest enough to publish a book? Let me know when I CAN read it, 3000 years later! Not suppressed huh?



Tho why is this rejected as the book:
Book of Zerubbabel (Ezra 1-6)
or also here??"



The second site there only mentions the Sefer Zerubabel, but doesn't provide it. The first site is disinfo distractional. Ezra is NOT the apocalyptic Sefer Zerubabel, & it's really brief.



citeEqually rare in world literature is the following account of Isaiah's visit to heaven, a Russian Slavonic copy of a late tenth or eleventh-century Old Bulgarian translation from Greek."


Isaiah has always been considered a major prophet. I have Ascension of Isaiah in my collection, but haven't been able to read Vision of Isaiah. Not enough demand for Isaiah publishing too, of 2 billion Christians? It SHOULD be with the Psuedopigrapha, if not in the Bible.



"Also here are different versions of the oath shown side by side. Which one is real and verified by the way??"



Libraray of Congress, Jesuit Oath via Section 66-43354 has it, according to a public access tv show tonight.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
Is 2 billion Christians not interest enough to publish a book?

Apparently so. Most christians don't have the slightest bit of interest in the book, therefore its not going to be on any shelves. Please explain how the work can be suppressed and yet these guys, the link earlier, can be publishing a book on them??? There is simply not enough interest to make it worth it for anyone to actually publish it to make it more available.


Libraray of Congress, Jesuit Oath via Section 66-43354 has it, according to a public access tv show tonight.

This does not answer the question as to which of the two different versions is real, and what supports it being real. Being in teh library of congress has nothing to do with authenticity, and the serious work thats been done on this document has apparently concluded that its a fraud, whereas the onyl people who seem to be saying its real are ian paisley and jack chick.



posted on Sep, 25 2005 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


"Most christians don't have the slightest bit of interest in the book, therefore its not going to be on any shelves."




Most Christians aren't even aware of what they're missing. Anything not included in the Bible is demonized as policy of denominations that are either conform or out mentality.

Isaiah and Saint Gregory, allegedly Christ, (& many others) should not be on the list of demonized. Alot is absent from the Psuedopigrapha that belongs there. Alot of books are on my list of impossible to actually read, even with internet. It sure stinks like suppression!


"Please explain how the work can be suppressed and yet these guys, the link earlier, can be publishing a book on them??? There is simply not enough interest to make it worth it for anyone to actually publish it to make it more available."



What's so expensive about making Sefer Zerubabel available on the net? That site of yours is only going to be a book about those books, not the texts! Another site I post on noticed no access to RARE sites that claim to provide it.

This does not answer the question as to which of the two different versions is real, and what supports it being real. Being in teh library of congress has nothing to do with it"


Neither of us has investigated that to see is it's official Catholic documents or not. You've no right to assume it's not, when presented by an outside source as evidence.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
What's so expensive about making Sefer Zerubabel available on the net?

I dunno, whats preventing you from getting a copy of it and doing just that???


That site of yours is only going to be a book about those books, not the texts!

It says that its going to include them in it.


Neither of us has investigated that to see is it's official Catholic documents or not. You've no right to assume it's not, when presented by an outside source as evidence.

I most certainly do. This other side presents absolutely no evidence that it is real, I don't have to accept their claims when they present no evidence. Whats worse, some of the people trying to support this document cite known frauds and criminals as 'verifiers' of it, and then clearly state that they haven't checked this person's background to confirm their statements and merely 'prayed upon it'. When you present #ty evidence in the first place, and it turns up that your 'evidence' is a fraud and huckster, then your case is severely weakened. And, apparently, this document has been linked to another hoaxer and anti-catholic in protestant england, Robert Ware, who's apparently somewhat infamous for forging documents and making up fake stories about protestants triumphing over evil little catholics.

And, agian, one story says its a Jesuit oath. Another that its an oath of the Knights of Columbus. Well, which is it and why??



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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On a related side note, here is a pdf for anyone interested on the subject.
On Cathars, Albigenses, and good men of Languedoc (pdf)



[edit on 26-9-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan



I dunno, whats preventing you from getting a copy of it and doing just that???"


Eusebius documented jews subtracting scriptures in 325AD. Sefer Zerubabel belongs with jewish psuedopigrapha, if not in the Bible. B'nai B'rith is one possible force at work in the ongoing suppression of it. Link me to it, if you can! I seriously doubt you can, with a workable link.



"and merely 'prayed upon it'."



I NEVER said I prayed upon it! That's a deliberate lie from a moderator/disinfo expert using Cointelpro methods to discredit unfairly.



"When you present #ty evidence in the first place,"



I'd think a moderator would know rules about profanity. The oath as in the congressional record AND Library of Congress is 2 sources of it. You taking the other side doesn't automatically make that version wrong.



" and it turns up that your 'evidence' is a fraud"



You haven't proved it was a fraud, by the source being against the oath, & so exposing it. Former Vatican attache & excorcist Father Malachi Martin exposed the secret masonic Order within the Jesuits on page 472 of his book "The Keys of His Blood", & via interview with artbell.com, he told of initiations of ritual murders. That seems to be supporting the notion that Jesuits are still Inquisitional.



posted on Sep, 26 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
I NEVER said I prayed upon it! That's a deliberate lie from a moderator/disinfo expert using Cointelpro methods to discredit unfairly.

The onyl thing that discredits you are your own actions; you aren't paying attention. The person that 'prayed' on it ws Jack Chick, you know, the guy who presented the supposed ex-Jesuit to back up the claim about that Jesuit Oath??



The oath as in the congressional record AND Library of Congress is 2 sources of it. You taking the other side doesn't automatically make that version wrong.

Again, there are two different versions of the oath, one has it as a jesuit oath, the other as an oath for teh Knights of Columbus, which is the real oath? And please explain why its of any import that these things are in teh library of congress and the congressional record, especially when its been shown that the congressional record one at least was entered by an election loser to slander the winner and have the election over turned??



You haven't proved it was a fraud,

Rivera is a fraud, he never even completed any seminary programs, and even if we reject evidence handled by the churc he's still a fraud for commiting fraud in other instances and being brought to court for it.


That seems to be supporting the notion that Jesuits are still Inquisitional.

Where is the sense is making a claim, having it shown to be false, and then bringing up another wild and unsupported claim????



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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Father Malachi Martin died for exposing the masonic order, according to artbell.com, who says he was pushed to his death.

He was WITH the Vatican, not some little country church. If I supplied a film of the Jesuit initiation murders, you'd give it the Alex Jones treatment, right?

Martin was also an excorcist, who had reason to believe in a REAL God. What motive would he have to lie, still being a priest? He stuck his neck out & it was cut, figuratively.

His death is further evidence of murderousness in the Church he spoke of. Investigate Opus Dei.

Maybe the Knights of Columbus have the very same oath, being another reputed corrupt org, also with the Church.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
from that list:
Plato, Republic 588a-589b

!!

This is included in the Nag Hammadi library?? I am surprised!


Interesting how little it is mentioned, isn't it?

But it highlights the pagan connections of gnosticism, if it wasn't already obvious.

All the best,
Roger Pearse



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
from that list:
Plato, Republic 588a-589b

!!

This is included in the Nag Hammadi library?? I am surprised!


Interesting how little it is mentioned, isn't it?

But it highlights the pagan connections of gnosticism, if it wasn't already obvious.

All the best,
Roger Pearse



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
Eusebius documented jews subtracting things from scripture in 325AD.


You need to produce a quotation and a reference for this statement.

All the best,

Roger Pearse



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
Father Malachi Martin died for exposing the masonic order, according to artbell.com, who says he was pushed to his death.

E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E????


]He was WITH the Vatican, not some little country church. If I supplied a film of the Jesuit initiation murders, you'd give it the Alex Jones treatment, right?

Yes, I'd subject it to scrutiny and logical analysis.


What motive would he have to lie, still being a priest?

Again, you were talking about Rivera, not this guy. Stick to one, or do you agree that the Rivera case is unsupportable?? And if you are dropping the Rivera issue (without citing evidence to support his claims and ignoring that the man was a criminal and a fraud and untrustworthy at best), then what evidence supports the claims of Malachi, who seems to be more of a writer of fictional books than anything else???


Maybe the Knights of Columbus have the very same oath, being another reputed corrupt org, also with the Church.

This is an insufficient answer, the oath is presented as being a Jesuit initiation ceremony and then by a different source its picked up and applied to a political opponent and attached to the KofC to defame the political opponent. Its not enough to say 'well maybe they both have the same ceremony'.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by roger_pearse


"You need to produce a quotation and a reference for this statement."
Roger Pearse


OK. "History of the Church"-Eusebius, Dorset books, in the chapter 4 Trajan to Marcus Aurelius: Bishops, 18.7 or so.

"proving against Trypho that the JEWS had actually cut them ut of scriptures"-page 180.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan



"E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E????"



The evidence is he's dead after exposing freemason control Like whistleblower William Cooper who exposed freemason control.




"Yes, I'd subject it to scrutiny and logical analysis."



You'd reject any source not yours about it as always, & mischaracterize & character assassinate in hopes of discrediting it for your Cointelpro agenda.



"Malachi, who seems to be more of a writer of fictional books than anything else???"




SEEMS TO BE? Based on what book in the fiction category? disinfo spin there from a professional debunker for the establishment interests there, who happens to be a moderator also.



"the oath is presented as being a Jesuit initiation ceremony and then by a different source its picked up and applied to a political opponent and attached to the KofC to defame the political opponent. Its not enough to say 'well maybe they both have the same ceremony'.


Some say K of C was involved in the Kennedy assassination. It's a mysterious group with lots of pull in high places, connected to the Church, like the Jesuits.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
The evidence is he's dead

Pretty poor evidence. Lots of people are dead, surely they're not all former jesuits invovled in a conspiracy.



You'd reject any source not yours about it as always, & mischaracterize & character assassinate in hopes of discrediting it for your Cointelpro agenda

Do you have that as a macro-function on your computer? I mean, it would get pretty tiresome to have to type it out afresh each time no??

SEEMS TO BE? Based on what book in the fiction category?

Windswept House
Vatican
King of Kings
are the ones that I could find that at least admit that they are fictional.


Some say K of C was involved in the Kennedy assassination. It's a mysterious group with lots of pull in high places, connected to the Church, like the Jesuits.

Again, which of the documents is the actual oath, the one the says its from the KofC, or the one that says its from the Jesuits? And what reason is there to think that either is real, since obviously someone is faking one of them? And, agian, why is it relevant that its in the Congressional Record or the Library of Congress? And what of the findings of the above author that the 'oath' was made by the known anti-catholic forger, Robert Ware??? What evidence, agian, is there that the document is real, actual evidence, not the testimony of Rivera, who's been shown to be a liar and a fraud???



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


Windswept House
Vatican
King of Kings
are the ones that I could find that at least admit that they are fictional."



What a joker U R, Nygdan. You present a nonfiction book by Malachi Martin as evidence he's fiction? "The Keys of His Blood" is NONFICTION. The other two links are to a book titled Windswept House that only refers to Martin. I see nothing in the links to even say anything negative about Martin, much less discredit him as a liar, who'd endanger himself by spreading rumors about the Vatican he belonged to. That's only evidence you have no case. BTW, Martin IS reported to have lived with a woman, but that has no bearing on the validity of his books.



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
You present a nonfiction book by Malachi Martin as evidence he's fiction?

I said that as far as I can tell he's a fiction writer and you asked what books were fictional. So there ya go, all of those titles are fictional novels he wrote.

"The Keys of His Blood" is NONFICTION.

Thats not one of the ones I listed.

The other two links are to a book titled Windswept House that only refers to Martin.

He is the author of Windswept house.
I mucked up on the other link, apologies.
Vatican Novel
The other link is for a fictional novel.

Keys of This Blood apparently says that Mikail Gorbachev and John Paul2 were going to bring about the NWO. JP2 is dead, and not only is gorbachev outta power but the soviet state has been utterly destroyed. Looks like he was completley wrong about that.


I see nothing in the links to even say anything negative about Martin,

How about you just show what evidence he presents in any non-fiction books he wrote to support the idea that the gnostic bibles are currently being suppresed???


BTW, Martin IS reported to have lived with a woman, but that has no bearing on the validity of his books.

I am confused as to what I said made you think that I had say that



posted on Sep, 27 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


"The other link is for a fictional novel."



That in NO way means what he said about Jesuits in a nonfiction book was fiction, as you implied. & tell me what crimes are the original oath exposers convicted of, as you claim?



"Keys of This Blood apparently says that Mikail Gorbachev and John Paul2 were going to bring about the NWO. JP2 is dead, and not only is gorbachev outta power but the soviet state has been utterly destroyed. Looks like he was completley wrong about that."



Bush unvieled NWO at the same time as Gobachev &JPII were around, so Martin was NOT wrong about that. Neither does that make him wrong about Jesuits.



How about you just show what evidence he presents in any non-fiction books he wrote to support the idea that the gnostic bibles are currently being suppresed???"

I presented Martin as backup to the exposing of Jesuit murderousness, as the oath does.




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