Informal Poll: Ritual Majik vs. Mind Over Matter, page 1
Pages:
ATS Members have flagged this thread 0 times
Topic started on 18-9-2005 @ 01:52 AM by redmage
There are many matters of the mind that science cannot explain. If we, for arguments sake, assume that people like Merlin (wizards, mages, witches, etc.) actually had/have abilities beyond "parlor tricks". Do you believe that Ritual Majik is really necessary to empower them or just the belief that these things were/are possible?

Personally, I'm unsure if it was "rituals". However I am a believer in mind over matter. In my opinion I believe that a lack of science (telling them that these things were impossible) and their "belief" that rituals enabled them, gave them a mind over matter effect. This stems from the fact that I believe I've had o.b.e.'s and premonitions and I wouldn't consider myself a ritual practitioner, pagan, or satanic.

Sorry debunkers this thread is not for you. These things are supernatural by nature, which means literally: not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws. Therefore arguing existance or proof is a mute point. This is a matter of personal experience and/or belief.

So to those of you who believe in supernatural abilities, do you objectively (uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices) believe that "rituals" are necessary, or, are they just an enabler to overcome "rational science's logic" to achieve a mind over matter effect?




I have recieved a few great u2u's regarding this (and welcome more if you don't feel comfortable sharing here) so for clarification.

I am defining rituals as a prescribed order of a religious "ceremony" calling on a "higher" power for a result.

I am defining mind over matter as an internal process involving meditation/visualization for a result.

[edit on 18/9/05 by redmage]

[edit on 18/9/05 by redmage]

[edit on 18/9/05 by redmage]


reply posted on 18-9-2005 @ 03:57 AM by redmage
Thanks for the reply whaaa. This is exactly what I was wanting to find/research.

Were you really expecting nothing to happen? Do you feel that the ritual could have opened you up to the idea that, beyond scientific explanation, something could happen? To me, imho, just the fact of taking the time to perform a ritual itself seems to suggest the latter.

Have you asked the other members of the group if they were open to the possibility of "something happening" or were they all in agreeance that it was "just another reason to party"? If it was a reason to party did their opinions change mid ritual, after the occurance, or at all?

My questions stem from similarities with experiences friends have had with ouija boards and in your words the rituals were "poorly performed and approached in a very cynical manner" the same as theirs with the ouija board.

This brings me to the importance of rituals themselves. It seems that if a ritual were really necessary it would have to be quite exact to gain a desired effect, yet, varying rituals performed without "reverence" from different belief systems can still produce similar effects. True, they may not be "desired" persay but definately supernatural if that's what people are looking for. My own experiences with the astral plane have had no rituals attached yet some believe rituals are necessary.

This is why I wonder about ritual Majik and would like to study it further. I realize that like i said in my origional post "proof is a mute point" but this is a great place to research human experience, and I am a firm believer that you can learn something from everyone in this life.

If you get a chance to speak with, and ask, the others from your group please keep me posted! Thanks again for the reply.

[edit on 18/9/05 by redmage]

[edit on 18/9/05 by redmage]



reply posted on 20-9-2005 @ 01:23 AM by LordBucket
In general I lean toward the idea that "Ritual" is a tool people may use to make it easier for them to trick themselves into doing the actual "work" of the mind.

...but...

1) If I chant rythmically for ten minutes, jump up and down seven times, then spin for three minutes while visualizing light around me, and flip a light switch...guess what? The light turns on. If somebody else goes through precisely the same process, the light will probably turn on as well...but all we really had to do was flip the switch.

2) Thoughts and thoughtforms tend to "groove" like tracks in the ground. If I walk over the same path a dozen times, it becomes deeper, and more well formed. If somebody else then comes along and walks along the same path, it doesn't matter that it's their first time...the path itself has been made. Similarly, if thousands of people are performing a ritual with a similar belief, and a similar expectation, someone who performs that ritual for a first time may be able to benefit from the previous efforts of others.

3) Ritual often tends to encourage states of no-mind. Anything repetitive does. When you brush your teeth are you focusing on what you're doing? Probably not. It's a routine. It's a ritual. It's the same thing, done over and over.

3a) In this sort of mental state, it's easier to not disrupt yourself. Talk to any martial artist, athlete, or practitioner of zen. Perhaps they "visualize" at some point, perhaps they don't...but when they actually perform, they are in a state of no-mind. They are allowing themselves to act as a train along a set of pre-made tracks. The train isn't involved in any sort of decision making process regarding where it goes, it simply moves forward along the track that has already been made.

3b) This mental state is..."related" to the "female" portion of the mind. The part that does not think, or direct, or judge. but simply "does."

So...yes, there may at times be merit to ritual, but there may at times also be merit to using crutches.

At the very least, if someone insists on making use of ritual, I would at least encourage them to create their own. It will be more effective in the long run, more likely to engender personal understanding of what's going on, and less likely to result in unforeseen, and potentially extremely nasty side effects.

Remember...anyone can turn on a light switch. It requires no understanding of electronics, or circuitry, or anything else...just flipping the switch. That's fine, if all you want to do is turn on the lights in your living room. If you want to maintain a power plant, it's probably in your best interest to understand what's going on.

So, the question I would ask practitioners of "magic" would be, do you want your "magic" to be powerful enough to provide light to your living room, or powerful enough to provide power to the city?
Pages:     ^^TOP^^



Paranormal photos: separate the wheat from the chaff.
  Posted 6 days ago with 67 member flags
What the hell is this next to my son....?!?
  Posted 18 days ago with 42 member flags
Shared Dreaming Experiment
  Posted 11 days ago with 10 member flags
To those who can have OBEs
  Posted 4 days ago with 9 member flags
My Ghost Radar Predicts a Mega-Quake on June 15, 2012 at Noon!
  Posted 14 days ago with 7 member flags
Bompa
  Posted 13 days ago with 7 member flags