Recently, I have begun to ponder the question of why we do not see evidence of constant, repeated contact from the spirits of the dead. Assuming that an afterlife does indeed exist in one form or another, and further assuming that our personalities are not radically altered upon entering such a realm, it is reasonable to assume that the dead would often want to contact their loved ones who remain alive, to reassure them that they still exist and to comfort them in their grief. Whilst it is true that instances of ghosts or spirits doing just this have been reported throughout history, it occurs to me that such accounts happen too infrequently to constitute genuine evidence. This is further compounded by the fact that most such accounts lack any form of tangible evidence. It also occurs to me that, given how many people die unwillingly each day, we should realistically see far more evidence of contact between the dead and their living family and friends. This has led me to posit a number of inferences:

The Dead Are Unable To Communicate With The Living
The fact that we do not see continuous evidence of the deceased making contact with the living may imply that they are unable to do so, for whatever reason. This in turn suggests two possibilities: that there is no afterlife for the dead to reach out from, or that some force in the afterlife acts upon the dead to prevent them from establishing contact with the living.

The Dead Are Unwilling To Communicate With The Living
Another reason why the dead seemingly remain silent may be that they do not wish to communicate with the living. This implies either that they exist in an idyllic state in which they have no desire to contact the living or that, upon dying, their personalities are altered so that they no longer feel the need to comfort their living loved ones. This is touched upon more in the following point, but in order to accept that the dead do not wish to contact their living relatives, we must assume that this is true for the overwhelming majority of the deceased. If it were otherwise, we would presumably see a far greater volume of contact occurring between the dead and the living than we do at present.

The Dead Have A Different Mindset Than The Living
I have also considered the possibility that, when one dies, their very way of thinking may be altered in the process. Lacking a physical body and therefore a physical brain, might not the way we perceive and think about the world be altered to a significant extent? Perhaps, as some have said, the dead are unaware of what has happened to them. Perhaps time is altered for them, so that they do not consider the passing grief of their loved ones on Earth. Or perhaps their thinking and state of being is so far removed from our concepts of them that the issue of contact is completely irrelevant to them.

They Are Communicating But We Cannot See It
The final inference is that the dead are attempting to communicate, but we are unable to experience the results of their efforts. Perhaps the dead stand all about us clamouring for our attention but we are blind to their attempts at communication.

These inferences are naturally dependant upon the realisation that consistent contact between the dead and the living is not taking place, at least not on the vast scale that I believe it should be were the dead actually able or willing to communicate. Others will disagree with this, and with many of the issues I have raised, and that is great. I am eager to hear a range of different opinions on my thoughts and people’s arguments as to why they agree or disagree with any or all of them.

There is one sure way to find out all the answers to your very well stated questions. I'm not personally quite ready for this type of investigation however!

Some do encounter dead loved ones; why it dosen't happen more often is surely open to conjecture.

A combination of your last two premises' makes sense to me. Being dead sure could cause a different mindset, or maybe no mindset at all.
Maybe if they are trying to communicate with us we are to busy "being alive" to hear them.

Mediums claim to be able to contact the dead. Are they all charlatans?

Maybe some ATS member that dies could contact you and answer your questions. Bit morbid but poll the members to see if anyone is really sick.

No thats all right I feel fine!!

edit: Remember that movie with Kevin Bacon where med students medically killed each other , then recusicated each other back to life so they could tell each other of their experiences while dead. I think it was called "Scanners." Another great project for the more adventerous/crazy investigative members that ATS seems to attract. Maybe some of those guys that want to break into area 51. That seems almost like a "death wish"

Obviously I haven't any answers but I'll bet somebody on the board has had a NDE and can shed some light on your questions.

10/4 and out

[edit on 18-9-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 18-9-2005 by whaaa]

Jeremiah25,
As whaaa has pointed out, it depends on who you talk to. Mediums and channels swear they regularly talk to the dead. I happen to know one personally, and the stories that person has told me are pretty freaky, for sure. But I also agree that you have identified the two most likely reasons the dead remain silent, to most of us.

It's another 64 million dollar question, with no clearcut answers. One theory I heard is that we are on this planet in a life of our own choosing, and must fullfill many such lifetimes. If this were the case, it might be that were the dead able to communicate to the living, information could be obtained that would or could change one's experiences in a lifetime. Which leads to another thought I've had: that this life, and all experience obtained in it, must surely count for something or be useful for some purpose after we die. It just doesn't make sense to me that it would all just vanish at the time of death. At least I hope this is the case.

So I think that there are probably very good reasons that we can't talk to the dead, it's just we don't know what those are yet. And some might argue that point, expecially those who are doing regular OBE's and those that have had NDE's. If you have ever delved into the subject of OBE's and AP, you will find that some literature warns you of other entities of many kinds that could approach you in an OBE state, and how to ward them off.

Good luck in your search.

When one enters the astral or causal realm upon death one starts to remember all past lives. There is no special connection with the one you just lived, you realize you have learnt your lessons during your life, and once again you wait for another physical vehicle in which you can reincarnate into.

Maybe they can, but only for a short period of time after they die. There was a case in WW2 where a pilot of a bomber that was destroyed that night came into his fiancees room, whilst the room was filled with a golden light and said something like "I must leave". Bear in mind that before that his plane was destroyed over germany, and that happened in England.

Well the answer is simple.. it is because they are DEAD.
But like 'apex' stated they do contact but for a short period.. it appears like a sign or a dream most of the times.
My grandfather passed away last year. He was in critical condition for days and the doctors had told us to inform everyone as they did not have much hope. And after about a week he passed away on a friday (early morning) and before this happened my mom dreamed it. She dreamt of him telling his farewell to all of us and then the news of his passing away being announced (like it is done from churches, mosques and temples out here when someone expires).
Now i believe that is a form of contact.. because its not just my mom who had seen the same kind of dream. Our old maid (who been serving us for long) saw this kind of dream too by dawn and so did many other people.
Similar dreams have occured before, on the day when mom's dad expired a long time ago.. to my mom , aunts , grandmother , relatives ..etc.
Has anyone here noticed this or experienced this? By me its nothing new.
And once this form of a contact is made they leave (have to) all their earthly ties as their body remains spirtless and these spirits are taken to god by angels [according to religious beliefs].
Therefore i do think they contact their beloved ones by atleast a small sign to tell of their departure and after that they cannot communicate.

Some interesting ideas here. I like the idea that the dead are only able to communicate for a limited period of time before 'moving on'.

Grey_Mysterio, my father told me a similar story about his own father's death. We live in Australia, but my father's family all live in New Zealand. My grandfather was very ill and my father had arranged to fly back to NZ to be with him. The night before his flight, he awoke to see his father standing in his bedroom. Dad said it appeared as though he was speaking, but no words were coming from his mouth. Dad became very upset and immediately rang his family in NZ. They confirmed that my grandfather had passed away only minutes ago. My father told me that a spirit of this kind is known as a fetch.

Keep the great ideas coming, guys, this thread has definitely given me a lot to think about.

[edit on 18/9/05 by Jeremiah25]

Having had 3 NDE's, it is hard to explain how the soul feels..One is aware of their body but no longer needs it., but it is such an unconditional LOVE, one has no need to contact the living unless as a warning of a dire event.
In mine, I could see all the 'living' but saw they would be ok without me, so I got very calm and warm, like in a cocoon, but each time a voice came from the Light telling me it was not my time, I had more to do.
I cursed the doctors who had healed me of cancer, telling them "I got ripped off" and I told them what they had done to revive me.
Hope this is of help.


[edit on 18-9-2005 by siriuslyone]

Originally posted by whaaa

edit: Remember that movie with Kevin Bacon where med students medically killed each other , then recusicated each other back to life so they could tell each other of their experiences while dead. I think it was called "Scanners."
[edit on 18-9-2005 by whaaa]

I believe it was "Flatliners"..."Scanners" was the spooky 80's mind power/control flick where the dude's head exploded.

My mother tells me when I was 2.5 years old she found me at the far end of our hallway talking to myself.She asked me who I was talking to and I said it was my grandfather(who was seriously ill in hospital),she told me there wasn't anyone there.Within minutes the phone call came,he had passed away.
I don't recollect this at all and I don't recall ever seeing any other dead persons.Perhaps as children we have the ability to see/speak with spirits(for want of a better word) but lose this as we grow up.

I actually just posted about my experiences with this one. I actually started talking to deceased loved one from the time I was 3, I would have very long conversations with my adopted brother who was 4, That would be fine except, he had passed a year before I was born -he had drowned in the pond in front of our house. Before I knew my Favorite aunt had passed, I heard her tell me "Goodbye Tweetie Bird" I love you, and I felt a hand run through my hair, a little while later my grandmother called to tell me that aunt barbie had just died. Heck, My mom came to visit me for 45 minutes, last week, while I was laying on the couch, She promised me she would visit me from the afterlife on John Edwards "Crossing Over" but So far I have not been able to score any tikets. Seems there is a high demand of people wanting to communicate with loved ones who have crossed. Our conversation started out by me hearing an EVP voice in my left ear telling me "we would talk in a few Ill be right back I hafta pee"
She passed June 30th last year, I was holding her hands, I also saw her spirit leave her body but thats another topic.
Trust me, the dead communicate loud and clear, you just have to know what channel to turn on.

well you can look at it in two ways

one reincarnation does not exist which in turn means ghosts may live outside of time where this would not matter or they could not even comprehend the passing of time

or two reincarnation does exist and there is a phase between the old life and the new one where the sould is seperated between bodies becoming a ghost.

And our universe should also be covered in this as if there is too little mass in our universe it will keep growing for eternity although if there is too much then it will contract into itself meaning that the universe is reborn and if everything is in the right place perhapes theres a chance to reincarnate in a sense.

This is a subject that seems to have been covered adequately before - but anyway - ghosts (of the haunting variety) are the result of people with such strong attachments to the earthly plane, that they simply can't let go. Best for them if they are helped by some kind person to move on.
The sort of ghosts that may appear with assurances or advice come from the realm they are supposed to be in.
For those people who can't seem to accept that anything they haven't personally experienced (or cannot remember) can't be real - consider this.
When a real living person places themselves in a deep trance state to access information that's not otherwise readily available, even a person who is primed and ready to record what they say very often has a great deal of difficulty in picking up on what is said.
It's not the dead who have the problem with communication - it's the living!

The reason the dead remain silent is that they are dead.

Originally posted by kando
Ghosts (of the haunting variety) are the result of people with such strong attachments to the earthly plane, that they simply can't let go.

... Or could be because they did not have a proper death/burial or when they seek vegence like in the case where they was murdered !

Originally posted by Astronomer68
The reason the dead remain silent is that they are dead.

Lurker, just de-lurking for a moment I've thought about this for a while, a relative passed away several years ago, we were a very close family - yet nobody has reported any case of anything that could be described as contact. Knowing the person - I know that if there was an afterlife then *something* should have happened. So that means one of two things - 1) There is no afterlife, a tad depressing or 2) It's not possible for contact to occur.

I once read an account of a seance-like situation where a similar question was asked, and the control spirit said that those who wished to remain in this realm as 'ghosts', should not 'go into the light' when they died. Once that was done, they would not 'want' ( or be able ?) to return. This would fit the 'unfinished business' idea, but would also depend on how badly the soul wished to finish it's business.


Your definition of a 'fetch' is a bit different from the one my grandmother used....she said that a spirit that came 'to get' some one else that was near death was a fetch.....and she had a story to illustrate:

Her Uncle Alec had lost his sister to childbirth, but the babe had lived, though it did seem to be weak. A few days after her death, Uncle Alec had been plowing all morning and stopped at lunch time, to lead his team of mules to the creek for a drink. As he looked up from rinsing his face in the stream, he saw his sister sitting on the opposite shore, brushing her hair. She looked directly at him and said, " Alec, I've come for the baby." He got up and ran to the house, finding that the child had died just moments before. ( Gram had numerous stories like this, involving her Uncle Alec, so he must have been more sensitive to messages from the departed.)

[edit on 26-9-2005 by frayed1]

Originally posted by frayed1
Your definition of a 'fetch' is a bit different from the one my grandmother used....she said that a spirit that came 'to get' some one else that was near death was a fetch

Quite intresting.
In our belief its an angel from god who appears to take away the spirit of the deceased one.

I personally believe that the majority of spirits that pass on realise quickly that this life is so insignificant in the grand scale of things, that they have no desire to communicate.

I myself have had an experience of an entity known to someone who was close to me entering my body at my request, to project my soul. (There was a reason for this request). At the time it seemed so natural and fear was completely gone. I believe that this entity was not ready to continue their journey, or was here for a reason, perhaps as an observer.

I think what frayed1 is right. But some people also think ghosts are forbidden from talking to the living.
I don't go along with that completely because from an evolutionary point of view the whole point in ghosts (or perhaps even a sole) is so that the dead can in some way benefit the living. After all how else could it evolve? And if the dead do benerfit the living it’s probably by warning our subconscious that there's say a car round the corner.

So I agree with what frayed1 says. Though I do also think it’s a matter of limited "ghost energy" (whatever that may be). Still I would like to know from anyone here does believe ghosts are been forbidden from talking to the dead.