Carcinogens & Drugs force fed us in Food & Drink, page 2
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reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 01:12 AM by cybertroy
MSG may have been a relatively new addition in Asian food, as far as an isolated component of a particular seaweed. The seaweed was used much longer, than the isolated component (MSG).

www.msgfacts.com...

As some of us may allready be aware, when you isolate things from the whole it may not be the same thing as eating the whole food, and could even be unhealthy. So, I do not necessarily support this particular site referenced.

Troy


reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 08:38 AM by FatherLukeDuke
This is a fascinating article on MSG:

If MSG is so bad for you, why doesn't everyone in Asia have a headache?

I'd always thought that MSG=nasty cheap Asian food. However glutamate (the G in MSG) is a naturally occuring amino acid and has been used as a flavour enhancer for as long as we have been cooking. It occurs naturally in stuff like tomatoes and parmasan cheese (why do you think this makes your pasta taste so much better? It's the glutamate):


Ripe cheese is full of glutamate, as are tomatoes. Parmesan, with 1200mg per 100 grams, is the substance with more free glutamate in it than any other natural foodstuff on the planet. Almost all foods have some naturally occurring glutamate in them but the ones with most are obvious: ripe tomatoes, cured meats, dried mushrooms, soy sauce, Bovril and of course Worcester sauce, nam pla (with 950mg per 100g) and the other fermented fish sauces of Asia.


Our bodies produce about 40 grams of it per day and human milk is "flavour enhanced" with glutamate (10 times more than cows milk) - obviously to make it a tasty treat for little babies.

Since the the turn of the last century though it has been available in processed form:

From the article:

"What does chiefly animate Japanese soups and broths is an amino acid called glutamate. In the best ramen shops it's made naturally from boiling dried kombu seaweed; it can also come from dried shrimp or bonito flakes, or from fermented soy. More cheaply and easily, you get it from a tin, where it is stabilised with ordinary salt and is thus monosodium glutamate."


One of the most interesting things is that there hasn't been a single scientific study that shows any ill effects from glutamate, either in naturally occuring form or as MSG.

It's a great article, I would highly recommend reading it.



reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 04:34 PM by James J Dierbeck
Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke


"MSG is not considered a drug and there is no evidence to suggest it causes obesity"


May I suggest the number 1 on the results page of Google for MSG;
www.truthinlabeling.org...

That site backs up all sorts of claims about MSG, including contributing to insulin resistant diabetes, and CAUSING OBESITY.


"This just doesn't make any sense. Who exactly are you calling fatso?"


Putting multiple obesity causers knowingly & unneccessarily in foods and drinks doesn't make any sense unless you want to profit from the medical industry or depopulate. My bad, I assumed the defenders of MSG & sodium citrate are part of the CNN Headline News reported obesity epidemic, skinny.


[edit on 25-9-2005 by James J Dierbeck]



reply posted on 25-9-2005 @ 05:11 PM by Benevolent Heretic
I've scanned the thread, but haven't read everything. But MSG is Satan to me.

Many Faces of MSG

I have to read and scrutinize every label or I will be extremely sorry. The canned tuna I had last night had vegetable broth, which contained soy, which obviously contained soya meal. So, at 3 AM, I awoke with horrible piercing pain behind my eye and it lasted till about noon today.

Fortunately, it was a small amount. In my learning about this, I have accidently ingested larger quantities and been laid out for 24 hours.

MSG may be all right in moderation for some people, but even the smallest amount is a painful, miserable disaster to me.

Father LD, the link I posted talks about the controversy you mentioned above about glutamate being in tomatoes, etc.



[edit on 25-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]


reply posted on 26-9-2005 @ 04:16 AM by Tinkleflower
Cancer was not unknown anywhere.

Part of what happened can be explained very simply:

We have better methods of diagnosis.
We have better methods of reporting.
And we have a much longer lifespan.

These three factors contribute to the phenomenon of "more cancer" (though they're by no means the only reasons) .

It's patently obvious though, that cancer isn't something new, it certainly wasn't unheard of 100 years ago, and we know it was quite rampant even 1000 years ago - though it is absolutely true that we see more cases these days.

As for MSG....there is a difference between MSG and HVP (hydrolyzed vegetable protein).

They're two entirely different things.

And it shouldn't need to be pointed out that the Sumo wrestlers in Japan are hardly indicative of Japanese body types in general....

(Have you even looked at Sumo and the cultural/physical aspects therein? It's not quite the case of "oh, they just get fattened up...")

Scroll down for foods with MSG, and for the problems related to anecdotal evidence...

And some more on MSG

Same source, different page

Some people are notoriously insensitive to soy products - is that actually what we could be seeing, rather than a problem with the glutamate itself?

Just to present another aspect of the whole story.


Edit: Yes, thanks, I've had a relative die from cancer - I've also watched one parent and one step-parent go through five bouts of cancer between them. What's your point again?

[edit on 26/9/05 by Tinkleflower]


reply posted on 26-9-2005 @ 06:34 AM by FatherLukeDuke
Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

Ever seen a Sumo wrestler? I'd not characterize them as too poor to eat in Japan as in China. I see most everyone I know except me obese, including family.


That's just stupid. Are you seriously suggesting that Sumo wrestlers are so big because they have MSG in their diets? They get big because they eat enormous quantities of food (many of them slim down again on retirement). Japan and China both have one of the lowest rates of obessity in the world. I went to Shanghai earlier in the year (a place full of fantastic food) and I didn't see a single obese local. How do you explain that?

People get obese because they eat too many calories and exercise too little (though the this balance may be affected by your genes). That's it. Blaming it on chemicals is just an excuse.

If you want to avoid chemicals in your food then stop buying processed crap from supermarkets and fast food places. Nobody is forcing you to eat this rubbish.

I myself get a box of organic fruit and veg delivered to my house and all my meat comes from a butcher who only supplies the best quality, completley free-range, naturally reared animals. Not only does it taste fantastic but I know it is additive free and all the animals will have been treated properly while alive. It also has the bonus of making buying food an enjoyable experience, instead of shuffling a trolley round some soul destroying supermarket.

James - if you want to avoid chemicals in your food then change your lifestyle instead of just whining about it all the time.


reply posted on 26-9-2005 @ 06:48 PM by Tinkleflower
Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
You can't prove that lie!


Largely because it's not a lie. Have you read any medical journals lately? I have in front of me two gynecology books from 1880, both detailing how to proceed with cancer surgery. Surprise surprise, none were written by Americans - they're both by European authors.

I have no idea where you're getting this. Really. You really believe that cancer is new?!


That's a distortion of my words, as usual at this site, by moderators. Prove that no MSG is involved in hydrolyzing substances


A) I'm not a mod. I don't even play one on TV
B) Did you actually read the post? MSG is not the same thing as HVP.


Your GENERALIZATON of Japanese average weight was not based on any facts, in the first place. Sumos are an example of not all Japanese are slim, as you implied.


You know, I was going to dispute this. But the fact remains - most Asian body types are actually much, much slimmer than their western counterparts. Pick up an anthropology book sometime and look.

Or, read anything about obesity in Asia.

You know, there's such a thing as personal responsibility. This includes, but is not limited to, educating oneself about what one is eating.

If one would rather not eat anything chemically enhanced - one should buy fresh produce.

If one would like to indulge in the occasional tempeh stew, then one should really make an effort to learn exactly what's in the ingredients.

Same as one might be expected to research a prescription drug before popping into one's delicate little mouthy, non?

Look. I'm painfully aware that there are chemicals in our foods. There are nasty substances, and that's never been in dispute. Some of these should be withdrawn immediately and without question; and some are no more harmful than Vitamin C. But please, don't confuse the issue further with such misinformation.

How medieval doctors could recognise oral cancer

More on cancer from centuries ago

Well-known cancer milestones

And Galen had a lot to say about it, too

Enjoy

[edit on 26/9/05 by Tinkleflower]



reply posted on 26-9-2005 @ 09:31 PM by James J Dierbeck
Originally posted by Tinkleflower

U again mistated the fact that I was somehow calling MSG HVP. HVP has VP in it , which MSG does not. Other substances are also hydrolyzed.
www.truthinabeling.org...


"But the fact remains - most Asian body types are actually much, much slimmer than their western counterparts."



They may be naturally smaller, but slimmer? You still haven't proved this. Even if so, sodium citrate is new to the food chain, which is a drug prescribed to cause water retention=causes obesity. Is Japan also force fed sodium citrate? The CNN Headline News reported "obesity epidemic" isn't about Japan, it's about USA.


"If one would rather not eat anything chemically enhanced - one should buy fresh produce."


That's about all I CAN buy without MSG or sodium citrate or sodium stearol lacytate in it! That's SEVERELY limited my diet. But fresh produce is sprayed with pesticides also isn't it? I had a job spraying pesticide on grapes long ago.


"How medieval doctors could recognise oral cancer"


So because there were a FEW cases documented before 1900, we should have known carcinogens in our food unneccessarily?


reply posted on 26-9-2005 @ 11:11 PM by denial28
Alls I know is my daughter goes absolutely bonkers if she drinks anything with red dye number 40 in it. Its almost as though my sweet child has been abducted and an evil carbon copy is in her place. My sisters a daycare instructor and she has banished the stuff from her class.

Its been linked with ADD, maybe thats why we have so many pill popping junkies at the ripe age of five? Also, ever notice how many girls are developing early,Its because of mega doses of BGH in dairy products, used to literally beef cows and steer up to make them more profitable.

It is also why we are seeing more and more cases of antibiotic resistant superbugs. Massive doses of Antibiotics, are fed to livestock, to prevent them from getting wounds that would otherwise turn septic, and force a farmer to lose money, because an infection ran rampant through his herd.

They are fed preventive antibiotics throughout the course of their lives, allowing us the ability to have reasonably priced meats, all the while making us less resistant to the bugs that have now become superbugs. This is also why organic is so much more expensive, the farmers, have more rigid regs, which cause more of their producing livestock, to not make it to market.

And one last point. Dont worry about Madcow disease. It lays dormant in our systems for about 10 years before you see the effects of it, so by the preventive measures the FDA has taken as action, really didnt do squat. We'll see in about 8 years from now exactly if they caught that one in time.

Just one more thing to add, you may want to read this apparently Aspartame was originally intended as a biochemical warfare agent.

ASPARTAME
Aspartame is the most controversial food additive in history. The most recent evidence, linking it to leukaemia and lymphoma, has added substantial fuel to the ongoing protests of doctors, scientists and consumer groups who allege that this artificial sweetener should never have been released onto the market and that allowing it to remain in the food chain is killing us by degrees.

Date:05/08/2019 Authorat Thomas

How F'd Is That???


The truth about aspartame

[edit on 9/26/2005 by denial28]
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