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the precursor to HAARP at montauk

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posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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thanks for posting those screenshots derek. Now I found the GART array. I still can't get over how far it is away from the rest of the base. It's about 1.7 miles as the crow flies across the major road there not to mention it appears to be rate next to a residential area as you mentioned.


external image



[edit on 22-9-2005 by warpboost]

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[edit on 22-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Bored at work today so I've been scanning around the east end.... get this... i've found at least what appears to be 2 other arrays. I could be wrong but from staring at the pictures I see similarities in the "poles".

The first picture is the FAA site I mentioned. Anyone who lives on the Island can go down Speonk Riverhead Road and about a 1/4 mile past Suffolk Community College you will notice a fence with a tiny red sign that says "Private Property FAA"

This array is very close by to Gabreski Airport (Home of the 106th Air Rescue Wing) and a former Air Force Base. Notice the shadows.. I count at least 8 of these "poles" not to mention what is either a doppler radar or something else. I'm not 100% familiar with radar stations.

external image


Now this second array station (if it is) I just stumbled upon while scanning the Pine Barren region. This one is due north of Gabreski Airport i'd say maybe 5 or so miles east of the one above. It is right in the middle of nowhere. (40deg 52'54.21" N 72deg 38'14.99" W). There are two black cars parked at the building. Again notice the shadows of the "poles" along with a radio (i think) tower just south east of the building. Also, looking at it in Google Earth you can see points north east, east, south east and due south there are orange/white antennas.


external image



My only speculation of what these are could be some form of old navigation stations for aircraft or TRACON. I'm not sure. But they are all situated very near to airports, all have these "poles" and are all in the middle of nowhere, with the exception of the one closest to Montauk Point which is now in the middle of a residential area. Tho it could have been secluded years ago.. long islands construction rate is rediculous.

Let me know what you all think.

Derek

mod edit, resize images

[edit on 22-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Derek, Your post and the pic of the 2nd array made me think of something I read a few days ago about HAARP being on Long Island after seeing this thread. You can see it here:

www.theglobal2012.com...

This is the part that I remembered and thought was most interesting after reading your post and seeing the pic



" Certain of the photos on the Navy's "official" HAARP website betray the fact that the photos were doctored--a structure visible in the photos proves that (at least one of) HAARP's transmitter site(s) is no longer in Alaska if it ever was but is in fact on Long Island, in the Westhampton pine barrens quite close to Brookhaven Labs--the nearby structure seen in the web page photo is part of Brookhaven! The photos were altered by adding mountains in the background, to keep going the lie that the HAARP is being operated in Alaska. Unconfirmed accounts state that HAARP has as many as 36 sites in operation at this time.

Preston Nichols, author and well-known investigator of covert operations, reported that he knows where this antenna site in the pine barrens is. There is totally independent confirmation from another source that there is an antenna farm in the Westhampton pine barrens which is protected 24/7 by Delta Force type personnel with automatic weapons. This fellow was hiking in the area and came upon the heavily fenced and posted site without having encountered any warning signs etc. An armed guard wearing a featureless black uniform warned him off with threats of deadly force! Needless to say my contact was one hella of a shock!"


It looks close to Brookhaven, and could be considered the Westhampton pine barrens to me. I wish the picture the author claims is altered was posted with the story


In this screenshot the placemark titled "antenna array" is the same site Derek called "2nd array" in his post.


external image

I know it's also close to the airport (almost closer to the airport than Brookhaven as the airport is just south of the antenna array) and could be part of the TRACON system as Derek said. I counted 20+ antennas at the site before I stopped, and was wondering if that is typical of a normal TRACON system? Are TRACON systems still in use today? Could those black cars be the Delta force like security force mentioned in the article I posted above?




[edit on 22-9-2005 by warpboost]

[edit on 22-9-2005 by warpboost]

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[edit on 22-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 08:37 PM
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Well what im doing now is looking for high voltage wires leading to any of these areas. The basis of HAARP is electricity. It operates in the range of 3 gigawatts so thats alot of power. As of this moment i see some BIG ASS power lines going straight into Camp Hero. Have not found anything to the other two sites. Thats not to say that those power lines might not be burried underground already. What I have ruled out is that these sites are NOT "VOR" navigation sites, as the only one I could actually locate on the east end is slightly North of RT.25 by the old Grumman base in Calverton, NY.

I wish Google Earth covered Alaska a little better, especially Gankon, where the Navy "supposedly" has its HAARP array on a 23+ acre plot. Mmmm Hmmmm.....

As a side note to the FAA site I posted... the only "listed" doppler radar on Long Island is in Upton, NY (ie: The Brookhaven National Lab). Upon further research of the lab grounds it does seem that there is a dome radar on the grounds, so that still leaves that FAA site unexplained.

*3rd Edit... Sorry*

I just realized following roads around in my head... I remember when I used to go out for lunch when I was in college over at SCCC, I used to drive up CR 31 by Gabreski Airport and whenever I would get to the end (intersection of CR 31 and RT 104) I would see MASSIVE antennas all clustered together... i mean MASSIVE.. and TONS of them... you could only see them at a distance but they towered above the tree line. Now having done all this research... and following roads around on Google Earth.. i just realized that is ARRAY SITE 2 that I posted a picture of... I'll be damned.. I'd sure love to know what that place is.


I'll let you know what I find out... I love playing detective.



[edit on 22-9-2005 by DerekJR321]

[edit on 22-9-2005 by DerekJR321]

[edit on 22-9-2005 by DerekJR321]



posted on Sep, 22 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by warpboost
Derek, Your post and the pic of the 2nd array made me think of something I read a few days ago about HAARP being on Long Island after seeing this thread. You can see it here:

www.theglobal2012.com...

This is the part that I remembered and thought was most interesting after reading your post and seeing the pic

" Certain of the photos on the Navy's "official" HAARP website betray the fact that the photos were doctored--a structure visible in the photos proves that (at least one of) HAARP's transmitter site(s) is no longer in Alaska if it ever was but is in fact on Long Island, in the Westhampton pine barrens quite close to Brookhaven Labs--the nearby structure seen in the web page photo is part of Brookhaven! The photos were altered by adding mountains in the background, to keep going the lie that the HAARP is being operated in Alaska. Unconfirmed accounts state that HAARP has as many as 36 sites in operation at this time.

Preston Nichols, author and well-known investigator of covert operations, reported that he knows where this antenna site in the pine barrens is. There is totally independent confirmation from another source that there is an antenna farm in the Westhampton pine barrens which is protected 24/7 by Delta Force type personnel with automatic weapons. This fellow was hiking in the area and came upon the heavily fenced and posted site without having encountered any warning signs etc. An armed guard wearing a featureless black uniform warned him off with threats of deadly force! Needless to say my contact was one hella of a shock!"


It looks close to Brookhaven, and could be considered the Westhampton pine barrens to me. I wish the picture the author claims is altered was posted with the story


In this screenshot the placemark titled "antenna array" is the same site Derek called "2nd array" in his post.


external image

I know it's also close to the airport (almost closer to the airport than Brookhaven as the airport is just south of the antenna array) and could be part of the TRACON system as Derek said. I counted 20+ antennas at the site before I stopped, and was wondering if that is typical of a normal TRACON system? Are TRACON systems still in use today? Could those black cars be the Delta force like security force mentioned in the article I posted above?




[edit on 22-9-2005 by warpboost]

[edit on 22-9-2005 by warpboost]

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[edit on 22-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]


not to be a fun-buster, but the haarp actually is located in alaska, i have located it in google earth before. Im not saying that there isint a haarp site, or something like it on long island, just that the actual bonafide haarp is in alaska.



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Where in Alaska did you locate it? I can't seem to get good resolution off google earth in Alaska.

I'm not disputing that there is a HAARP in Alaska. Some of the theories are that HAARP was never in Alaska but scattered about Long Island. While I dunno about that, I do know that there are ALOT of weird things on long island. I know there IS a particle accelerator at the BNL. The whole Shoram NPP thing was just "weird"... all these antenna arrays in the middle of no where, the whole Camp Hero thing.... and isn't it strange the huge amount of cancer cases on LI? They claim its from power lines...blah blah... I dunno.. just alot of weird things...


Derek



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by ben94gt
not to be a fun-buster, but the haarp actually is located in alaska, i have located it in google earth before. Im not saying that there isint a haarp site, or something like it on long island, just that the actual bonafide haarp is in alaska.



Did you happen to see this part? "Unconfirmed accounts state that HAARP has as many as 36 sites in operation at this time. "

there is more than 1 site. Also can you post the google map coordinates of HAARP in Alaska because I couldnt see it very well.

So Derek do you think that array #2 could be the Weshampton pine barren site that article I posted mentioned?

I was intending on looking at the powerlines and where they go but didnt get a chance yet. I agree that is a good indication if something is going on, but couldn't they be underground as you suggested or couldn't they have their own powerplant, generators or even a reactor?

I have read that HAARP can be used to communicate with submarines that are submerged at sea so one thought I had was that these sites on Long Island are for communicating with the Atlantic sub fleet?

[edit on 23-9-2005 by warpboost]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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I would have to say it most likely could be. It is ironic that the only sites of similarity to "site 2" that i can find are located in the Pine Barrens, near Gabreski... of which i've heard of "things" going on for a while now.

The only things I find strange are.. site 2 does not look like the "posted" haarp array below (Gankon, AK)

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

But... HAARP has been around since the 50s. So has Gabreski and Hero and the likes. Back then Long Island was mostly farm land.

The only other interesting thing I could find about the mystery FAA site is that it could be a Phased Radar Array site.

In respect to the communications with the Atlantic Fleet. It is very possible as the Navy has been after ELF communications for decades now. However, I would imagine something of that much strategic importance would be much more "secure" no? Most Sub communications come out of COMSUBLANT in Norfolk VA and VLF stations in Annapolis. There are two doccumented ELF stations in the US (not HAARP.. ELF)

The ELF communications system consists of two high power shore transmitter stations controlled by a submarine BCA. The two ELF transmitter facilities are located at Clam Lake, Wisconsin and Republic, Michigan.



Derek


[edit on 23-9-2005 by DerekJR321]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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That's wierd the navy ELF stations are in the great lakes area, but since it's radio waves I guess it doesnt make a big difference?



Derek earlier you said you ruled out site 2 as being a VOR or TRACON site, and I was curious why you came to that conclusion?

You also mentioned that all the "other" sites similair to site 2 you can find are ironically in the pine barrens near Grabeski. Could you by any chance post the images or the lat/longs of these? Also you mentioned there are all kinds of stories about Grabeski and I was hoping you could share a few?


I was reading this which I think is the same article as the last link I posted? :www.konformist.com...

they say that montauk project is under the control of the Navy these days which might offer some insight, but I also thought you might find this of interest which is from the above link:

"There is an old bunker southeast of the base proper outside the "restricted area" which is relatively close to the lighthouse and right on the Atlantic cliffs, with a paved circular area directly south of and in front of it which was (at one time) an artillery emplacement. (This was the location where Siemens-subsidiary Cardion Corporation tested a very high tech particle beam radar system for at least five months in 1994 - all clearly visible from the lighthouse)."

[edit on 23-9-2005 by warpboost]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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Derek earlier you said you ruled out site 2 as being a VOR or TRACON site, and I was curious why you came to that conclusion?


If you look north of the Grumman site in Calverton NY, there is a VOR station there. VOR's are not "antenna arrays". In fact there is no need for more then one beacon in a navication configuration. Having multiple beacons would just confuse the issue. Therefor the 2nd Array and the FAA array are not VORs.


You also mentioned that all the "other" sites similair to site 2 you can find are ironically in the pine barrens near Grabeski. Could you by any chance post the images or the lat/longs of these? Also you mentioned there are all kinds of stories about Grabeski and I was hoping you could share a few?


The only other sites I've found are the GART site near Camp Hero and this "FAA station" with several of the antennas and what i think is a phased array radar site. I haven't finished searching google earth yet so im sure i might come across one or two more. I've already posted a picture of the FAA site above I think. In respect to Gabreski.. i've heard things along the lines of weapons test, missle silos and the likes. I have a site bookmarked at home that I'll post later about it.


they say that montauk project is under the control of the Navy these days which might offer some insight, but I also thought you might find this of interest which is from the above link:


Originally HAARP was a USAF project but the Navy took it over (not sure when). Around the same time of the take over the BNL went completely in a different direction then it originally was and alot of Navy personel moved in....


"There is an old bunker southeast of the base proper outside the "restricted area" which is relatively close to the lighthouse and right on the Atlantic cliffs, with a paved circular area directly south of and in front of it which was (at one time) an artillery emplacement. (This was the location where Siemens-subsidiary Cardion Corporation tested a very high tech particle beam radar system for at least five months in 1994 - all clearly visible from the lighthouse)."


I can see that bunker on google earth. Its pretty exposed now and has all but fallen into the ocean. There is "another" bunker further west down the beach.. i've not seen anyone mention this anywhere but i came across it while searching the coast line.



Derek



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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Derek,

Your VOR explanation makes sense as there shouldnt be an array of antennas for navigation, but I'm not expert. If you get a chance sometime could you post the pic of the VOR site in Calverton?

That FAA site you found is interesting. So you think it's a phased array radar station huh? Do you have any idea what would that be used for? Isn't phased array radar used in weather prediction?


This is a picture of the paved circular area that I believe was the referenced in the article area where the advanced radar was tested in my last post.



Source

and here is what I think is the same paved circular area, and it looks like there are 2 of them. I happen to notice that there is a antenna rate next to those paved circles which might have something to do with the radar testing? I wonder what the heck that white x looking thing is???

external image

I found 2 bunkers just to the west of the SAGE radar tower and the main part of the base. I think these are the artillary bunkers show here.

What I thought was interesting about this image is the 2 dark objectsthat are on top of them. I can't tell if they are just trees or what, but them seem almost symetrical? I thought I saw another bunker somewhere, but now I can't find it.

external image

Derek, I have been looking at the paved circular road just south of that L shaped transmitter building we talked about earlier. I have never been out there and was hoping you could tell me if Old Montauk highway is paved or dirt? reason i ask is it looks dirt in google earth, but that circle appears to be paved, and I can't figure out why they would go to the trouble to pave a circle? Do you know if you anyone can drive on Old Montauk Highway?

I was also wondering if you know anything about that small neighborhood north of camp hero? The streets show as Madison Hill Drive and then there are Jefferson and Washington Ave off of it. It appears to be part of camp hero but I can't really tell. Is it the housing for the people there? Also make sure you check out that oval track looking thing where Madison Hill Dr meets Camp heo rd. What the heck is that thing for?

I was wondering if someone knows what this rectangulr concrete structure is, and if it is above or below ground? It's just east of the SAGE tower and almost looks like it goes below ground or something?

external image

I had only heard little bits and pieces about Montauk and Tesla and what went on there and never thought much of it. Now that I have read about and looked at pictures and aerial images I can't really explain why but I think that nore goes on there than meets the eye. After looking at the place in detail with google earth I get the feeling that there is a fairly extensive underground facility there. I know those bunkers are there, but I think there is even more that's not as visible.

Something else I wanted to mention was the Wardenclyffe Tesla lab which AFAIK is in Shoreham, NY but I can't find an address for the site or find it in google earth. I find it interesting that Tesla himself had a lab and a giant wireless tower on Long Island not far from Montauk and Camp hero.


[edit on 23-9-2005 by warpboost]

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[edit on 23-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Sep, 23 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Here is the picture of the VOR across from the main gates at the old Grumman facility. It is very easily seen by driving down Rt. 25.


external image

In response to the circular drive near the L-Shaped building.. its obvious in the picture that the circle is paved.. however i dont believe the roads leading twoards it are paved.. at least not any more. Follow that road east and you can see it is completely washed out.. right about where your two former radar sites are. If you notice where those two circles are, look north twoards the building and the rather unusual white "X" on the ground.. there is also a large radio tower there as well. Also if you follow old montauk west there is what appers to be an old guard booth to the north of the road, and you can also see at the shore what I think is part of another bunker? Might not be but it looks like a large cement slab. Also notice the two cement trucks and bulldozer right at the junction. No idea if they were there to actually pave the road
As i said these pictures are at LEAST 2 years old if not more.

In respect to the FAA site... no idea why they would have a phased radar array there... I just speculate that is what it is simply because the only "domed" radars im aware of are doppler and phased array, with the exception of i think ATC uses them at some airports... but then again... this site is in the middle of no where like i said.

I want to say that rectangular concrete block that you posted a picture of is a parking lot... but then again its rather "off the path" to be one. And you can clearly see tire tracks there.. or at least what appears to be tire tracks. I've read about bunkers at Camp Hero that freight trucks used to drive into.. maybe thats it?

Derek



[edit on 23-9-2005 by DerekJR321]
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[edit on 23-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Concerning the L shaped building, I agree that the square shape surrounding it appears to be a perimeter fence.

As for the array, great job on finding it. When I was in Montauk, we were guestimating where to find it based on an old area map, plus we could see the antennaes through the foliage. As for the purpose of the array, here is an email I received from someone who prefers to remain anonomous:


After looking at your pictures that people claim to be a HAARP array, I can
pretty safely say it is an CDAA (Circularly Diposed Antenna Array) array. It
is used to do HFDF (high frequency direction finding). It helps all branchs of
the millitary locate ships at sea, and to pinpoint military emergency beacons.
The Coast Guard uses the same thing for civilian beacons also.
As a former cryptoligist in the military, I assume this base did have a secret
agenda years ago, mostly cryptology. The large array looks like one we used to
have, albeit an ancient version. The antenna that was broken down was more
than likely another portion of a long array, that might go on for a mile or
two.
As far as the tubing running from the old house into the hill, that was more
than likely an access tunnel to the cryptologic operations. I've seen those at
another base too. They would post guards at the building, and at the end of
the tunnel, plus you would have to have a magnetic key card to access the
doors.
There probably was/is a facility under the hill. Thats where most of the
secret stuff happens.


This structure here may be interesting:

external image

It appears to be the foundation of a building which has been demolished. However it is a fact that we noticed several similar type areas where there had been buildings on top of small hills which, after further inspection, revealed themselves to have bunkers underneath them.

Is there any activity there now. Especially considering that most of the base has been opened as as a state park? Honestly, I doubt it. But there were some odd things that were hard to explain, such as the power lines running through the middle of the base. But for all I know it could be for the lighthouse. There is a little snack bar out by the lighthouse, but I dont think the power usage for that justifies what we observed in the middle of the base, in the middle of nowhere.




[edit on 10-2-2005 by William One Sac]



posted on Oct, 2 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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I personally find the Montauk Project to be perhaps the most intriguing mystery of all, so I read threads like this with great interest.

Here is something I found on an Area 51 thread that I was wondering if someone could attempt at Montauk:

"My recommendation: Find yourself a geologist experienced in seismic reflection surveys. You will need a high performance laptop, correct software (GeoFlect is one package, although there are probably much more advanced packages now) at least 8 geophones, and a case of legally obtained explosives.

If you array the geophones in the correct orientation, and employ your explosives correctly, and have good imaging software, you will get astonishingly good subsurface 3D images. Most of these software packages are designed to find oil and gas resevoirs underground, and pick up the change in lithology between one rock unit and another, as well as the presense of any void space. Although I have never used any of these software packages in an effort to find an underground structure, I would imagine that the reflection wave would interact very well with any kind of concrete or other reinforced building structure underground. At the very least, it would certainly pick up on any large empty voids underground, as that is one of things they are programmed to look for.

I can't guarantee that you wont attract attention doing this bit, but it would be interesting to hear them explain why you cannot peform seismic reflection surveys out in the desert if nothing is out there.... "



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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therainmaker, that is a very interesting idea you presented for locating and imaging underground structures. As you said it would be interesting to listen to the reasoning as to why you can't have a permit to do so. I was wondering if you know anything about ground penetrating radar? I have seen a company that has trailer mounted units for construction type work. I wonder how deep it can penetrate and how good it would be at creating an image or map of an underground structure? I think radar might be a little more feasible since it's much less intrusive than detonating explosives to record the shockwave
I have even read about aircraft with seismic imaging equipment for oil and gas prospecting so that could be the best way considering you wouldn't even have to get down and dirty on the ground.



posted on Oct, 3 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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warpboost as I said above it was not my idea, it was something I found buried deep in an Area 51 thread elsewhere on this site.

I don't have much personal knowledge of ground-penetrating radar, though I did take a class where we had some kind of archaeologist as a guest speaker who demonstrated a hand-dragged device (for lack of a better term) being able to locate pipes in the ground near the building. That was a number of years ago and the technology was not terribly impressive; I'd imagine there is a far higher standard of ground penetrating ability today.



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