Hidden Agenda behind Inquisition; Censoring Scriptures via Murder

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

Originally posted by Byrd

QUOTE; "These texts *are* gnostic (as you've said) and not something taught directly by Jesus' disciples."

You ignore the so called "dualist heresy" in the Bible; 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:5, and Job 1:6, & Jude 1:9 & Rev 12:12, & 2 Corinthians 11:14. The Inquisitioners are the heretics.

Now you're tossing in something new. Care to explain a bit more?

MY LATIN VULGATE says "herbs" not "vegetables", as does my KJV.

Okay. So your Latin Vulgate IS NOT in Latin???!!

Aha. And you don't read Latin, then.

You've just been victimized by the language translation shift. The English language is changing ("Aweful" as used in the KJV, means "full of awe" not "dreadful-horrible") -- but Latin was long used by scholars because it's a dead language and there's no linguistic shift.

I suggest you get out a real Vulgate LATIN ONLY Bible (no, you can't have mine) and read the original Latin along with a dictionary. You'll get a different understanding of things. The language shift in KJV makes it unreliable unless you happen to be a student of Shakespearian English.

Anyway, that's why I cited the original in Latin.

I had to make sure WHAT it really said and that it wasn't being mistranslated by someone.

I strongly suggest you read the original instead of translations.

QUOTE; "I'd love to hear your explaination about why your favorite source contradicts the historians who lived in Britain in 30BC-400 AD and actually talked to Druids."

I've never read Flaubert, nor heard of him until this thread, so he's not my source, as I've already explained before. WHY are Moloch rituals
in use at Bohemian Grove?

And why are we talking Flaubert?

I said, that the "moloch/druid/bohemian grove connection is contradicted by the Romans like Julius Caesar who knew the Druids and wrote about them."

We'll deal with the source of the overinflated description of the worship later. Let's just stick to basics:

Julius Caesar and others described the worship, rituals. and gods associated with the Druids. Moloch is never mentioned, nor is anything like the rituals you mention ever cited.

I want to know what evidence you have that "druids worshipped moloch"... how old is your source and what is it? My proof that this is wrong is the writing of the old Romans.

What's your proof?

Still saying Alex Jones invented the traditional Moloch rituals at Bohemian Grove?

He "THINKS" they're rituals of Moloch. Truth is, he has no idea what a ritual to "Moloch" is really like (because there isn't any such thing, but that never stopped alex.)

The rituals of Crowley AND LaVey are exactly Baalist, renamed as Satanism.

No, LaVey's aren't Baalist. They're made up. Anybody who has a ritual summoning Cthuhulu is totally whacked and making things up.

There's NO ancient rituals to Satan.

Agreed. Earliest I find is early middle ages stuff.

And the original topic was the suppression of the Gnostics and the Inquisition against them (at least that seemed to be what you were writing about in the first message.) Just trying to get back on topic, here.

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
Look up the definition of the insult you REPEATEDLY gave me, as German/Irish American, and Christians, which Heliand readers were.

The saxons weren't irish or american. Its a simple fact that they were a barabarian tribe, any germanic tribe can be refered to as 'barbarian', its hardly an insult.

I protested to the slur to you the "moderator" only to be insulted ethnically and religiously AGAIN.

I'm sorry that you take offense at a somewhat basic observation. I'll agree that the term 'barbarian' isn't considered particularly useful these days, but what of it? The saxons were a tribe of germanics in the far north who eventually raided britain. Refering to them as 'barbarians' is hardly something to get worked up over, especially since you aren't even a saxon.

as "inferior" and "savage" & "uncivilized" is what the word means.

The saxons were uncivilized savages. I don't know about inferior tho, thats rather irrelevant. They were primitives, living in tribes in the forest.

Prove it doesn't describe you, rudely insulting as debate strategy.
There is no debate here, you have clearly stated that you are only responding because you are hurt, and that when you've used the site as your own personal soapbox and billboard, you'll leave; nothing about discussing issues in that apparently. If you have such a problem with me, then by all means, use the complaint feature.

My library of extra Biblical works is extensive.

Apparently it doesn't include any of the editions of the saxon document.

You reject any reference material presented anyhow.

This is entirely untrue and you haven't presented any reference material to support any of your claims. I, once again, encourage you to do so.

If it's Google it's unreliable automatically, by your statement previously.

I said nothing of the sort. I merely comented that its nonesense to use as a reference the suggestion that a person do a google search for some terms.

like the proof that Protestants had the Apocrypha,

I never said that teh protestants had the apocrypha, the protestants excised stuff like that from their bible, they, in your usage, engaged in an inquisition against catholicism, and destroyed the books. Actually, according to your reasoning, all those apocrhyphal books that the protestants inquisitionized must be sitting in a big Protestant Library, as with the vatican.

or proof of sonar exploration.

Doode, are you even familiar with the claims you are making???? The pyramid claim is based upon a sonar sounding that, according to the advocates, indicates that there is a pyramid on the ocean floor. I notice that you still haven't presented anything resembling evidence for your pyramid claim. If you read it in a book, well what did the book cite as evidence???

You denied that I know anything about the Mazzini mafia & freemasons.

I certainly deny that you were nearly made into the mafia.

Knowing is why I blast freemasons and mafia.

I never killed anyone in the biz, and refused to kill for the mafia masons.

Oh no, of course you didn't, you were just part of their criminal enterprise and helped support the murderous mafia in its endavours, but you're not responsible, no not in the least

You accuse me of being PRESENTLY immoral?

You've admited to your own immorality in presenting yourself as a mafioso associate and drug smuggler.

Herb was my department, except when selling gov coc aine in 1980-1981.

More stores. Wonderful.

I gave names and backgrounds on the top mafia in the NW,

Wow, you must actually have been there to know a little bit eh??

& you assert still I'm ignorant.

its quite apparent.

Readers can see you're a self proclaimed expert on any subject

I have never made any such claim and I am rather clear in stating that I know very little on pretty much anything.

with agenda of discrediting for ATS or NSA or masons.

the NSA, or maybe 'the' masons, or perhaps just ATS eh? Well which is it??

The Wyatt site is attacked as anti Bible agenda. I suggest readers Google up his rebuttals to the false claims.

What in the world did you find convincing from that site???

Many sites have me locked out of posting,

Gosh, I wonder why, considering that you are apparently incapable of having a discussion and have even openly stated that you are just here to knock around for a while and then leave.

Here, they're ready with your same old handbook of strategies

Ah yes, the conspiracy has followed you here, indeed, it created this site to draw you into this specific discussion, for arcane, sinister and unknowable reasons. Mwa hahahahahaha

character assassinate

You have assasinated your own 'character' by making absurd claims and, worse, not even trying to support them with anything even resembling evidence.

using slurs

Are you still crying because I refered to the saxons are barbar-talkers? Yeesh. The batavians were barbar gibber jabbers too, along with the seubi and alans and the helvetii. Well, not quite so much the helvetti, but especially those gallic types too! All day long its flannel pants, assagi shaking and bar-bar-bar-bar talking!

I can tell who's been trained by now in Cointelpro tactics.

You are fooling yourself, and I suspect no others.

The silent majority can see your tactics & agenda.

*shakes* Oh wait, I wasn't in my boots. Here, lemme put them on..ok *shaking*

quote]All those topics have been disputed here.
Ok, since this is like the third or fourth time, lets make this real easy. What specific page from that domain has evidence for the vatican having secret suppressed gospels??

I DID, at www.infowars.com... Bohemian Grove history and film of the Moloch rituals.

Again, present the specific page out of the thousands of pages under that domain name that is an investigation of druidic practices.

Druid ritualism wasn't fabricated by Alex Jones & I, neither it's preservation of Baal/Moloch traditions. Google has many sources to validate the history of Baalism/Moloch/Druidic ritualism.

Do you think that you could present any one of those many sources??? Considering that there are no contemporary sources of what the druids did, short of roman accounts, and none of those mention anything about baalism, which, if the practice was spread throughout the medeteranean, they'd've recognized. The romans recognized that the druids worshiped syncretic forms of their own gods, mercury the highest. Nothing about baal or moloch.

I also provided the freemason connected JW "Aid to Bible Understanding"

You stated:

I have the reference dictionary for the Bible called "Aid to Bible Understanding", researched by JWs, who reportedly have ties to freemasonry. The murder rituals of Baal/Moloch are described there also, in details not in the Bible.

How the hell are any of us supposed to check and discuss that? I mean, you could at least quote the relevant section so that it could be discussed. But why take something written by the jehovah's witnesses seriously anyway?? Especially over people who've researched the material first hand??

You laugh then, but your opinion can't be used to post other articles based on. You avoided supplying the proof I asked for WITH that statement

google.com There see, I am right.

I have the Christian Apocrypha here, and jewish psuedopigrapha, and Gnostic scriptures, and Dead Sea scrolls and Nag Hammadi, Kabbalah, "Lost Books of the Bible", Pistis Sophia, Oahspe, & Mormon books and prophecies from all cultures, & Quran & more. Many books are still unavailable, especially Bogomil and Cathar books, or non extant: not available in book form to add to my library, like Heliand (in English), Junius II. I want a complete library so I can say the Bogomils and Cathars were exterminated over this book (missing).

Alright, so, now, since you have the apocrypha and know what they are, how do you explain making a statement like this:

Prove that Protestants had the Apocrypha until the Catholics published it

You reject all sources about freemasons not run by freemasons.

I do no such thing.

Epperson facts are verifiable via Google,

I am simply stunned that a person can state this. Please demonstrate how his 'facts' are verifiable 'via google'.




You claimed there's NO freemason Satanists.
I said no such thing.

Anton LaVey, Aliester Crowley, Albert Pike, Madame Blavatsky. The "normal" seem to be more Baalist than Satanic at Bohemian Grove.

Only Pike was a regular mason, crowley was an irregular one if i understand correctly, and neither lavey nor blavatsky were masons, regardless of any satanic charges.

so he's not my source, as I've already explained before

Dear god man, if your source used Flaubert as his primary source, then Flaubert is where your information comes from, regardless of your ignorance of this.

WHY are Moloch rituals
in use at Bohemian Grove?

How can you possibly give that as a response to a question about what your sources are for baalist rituals amoung the Druids????

And you reject every source that doesn't fit in your little box of acceptable beliefs.

This was directed to Byrd, but you've already stated it to me. Did you loose your place in the script? Certainly is starting to look like you are reading from one.

Well, explain the "Daughters of Job" and "Order of the Eastern Star"

You claimed that blavat was a freemason, not a member of the eastern star or anything else.

The founder of the Church of Satan and author of the Satanic Bible Anton LaVey WAS SO a mason

He was not, for proof, see here.

Originally posted by roger_pearse

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
www.truthquestonline.info... should get you to the right page for Rosslyn Chapel, Knights Templar history, beginnings of freemasonry, Illuminati, Skull & Bones rituals, and the Jesuit oath to murder for the Church.

Thanks -- I'll take a look.

I'm sorry but I think the link is wrong -- should it not be www.truthquestonline.info...? But this turns out to be not a website, but merely a collection of links to other sites around the internet, none of them (as far as I could see) hosted at that site. Some of those are scholarly (e.g. scans of books by E.A.Wallis Budge) but most are crank sites.

I'm afraid that I don't see how this site can be given as an authority. It's just a collection of links.

I'm sorry, by the way, if you think my posts are nit-picking. It's not my intention to debunk your posts by a thousand cavils, as some would perhaps do. But some of the points of detail that you call in evidence fall within my area of interest and (amateur) knowledge.

General assertions are hard to deal with anyway. How does one address them?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 21/9/2005 by roger_pearse]

Originally posted by Nygdan

"There is no debate here, you have clearly stated that you are only responding because you are hurt"QUOTED.

Readers who care can reread for proof you lied & I never said anything like that. Typical of a no credibility debunker.

QUOTE:"If you have such a problem with me, then by all means, use the complaint feature."

Funny, I tried to report your foul play debating style, but no access to that area, so I e-mailed the manager, who's ignoring it, apparently because you're on the job full time as Cointelpro operative.

"Apparently it doesn't include any of the editions of the saxon document."QUOTE.

I've never seen a copy for sale, & it's only available in the dead anguage Saxon, which I can't read. Prove it's not suppressed into unavailability.

I merely comented that its nonesense to use as a reference the suggestion that a person do a google search for some terms."QUOTE.

I'm confident that you won't find any sites that say I'm wrong at google, so pick a site!

"The pyramid claim is based upon a sonar sounding that, according to the advocates, indicates that there is a pyramid on the ocean floor. I notice that you still haven't presented anything resembling evidence for your pyramid claim. If you read it in a book, well what did the book cite as evidence???"QUOTE.

"Pyramid Prophecies" by Max Toth/Warner Destiny books cites the discoverer/explorer as naturopath Dr Ray Brown, in 1970, though news didn't report it until 1977. Where's your supposed proof about sonar images of it now?

You've admited to your own immorality in presenting yourself as a mafioso associate and drug smuggler."QUOTE.

I isolated myself from danger in 1994, & fired the mafia lawyer. My PD record is victimless. The lawyer started out suing for my religious freedom, & it turned into join or die.

Many sites have me locked out of posting,

Gosh, I wonder why"QUOTE.

I don't. I expose masonic ugly secrets where ever I go.


Ah yes, the conspiracy has followed you here, indeed, it created this site to draw you into this"QUOTE.

You said it, not me! the name aovetopsecret is to lure those with classified info to be hunted or discredited unfairly like this, by what you admitted. That's why moderators are the rudest deniers of all evidence who discard evidence by character assassination and every other trick in the Cointelpro manual, in violation of forum rules.


" What specific
page from that domain has evidence for the vatican having secret suppressed gospels??"QUOTE.

I never claimed any page from that site proved that. It's info for Knights Templar/freemasons/Illuminati/Skull & Bones ritual film/ Jesuit oath to murder for Church. "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception" by Baigent & Leigh/Summit books in the chapter titled "The Inquisition Today" cites Ratzinger (1991) as head of Vatican Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, keeping scrolls secret from the public.


Again, present the specific page out of the thousands of pages under that domain name that is an investigation of druidic practices."QUOTE.

PAGE 1, 6th link down, titled "The Grove" at www.infowars.com...

"Considering that there are no contemporary sources of what the druids did, short of roman accounts, and none of those mention anything about baalism"QUOTE.

May Day BELtaine traditions are named for Baal, because of Druidic Baalism!

How the hell are any of us supposed to check and discuss that? I mean, you could at least quote the relevant section so that it could be discussed. But why take something written by the jehovah's witnesses seriously anyway?? Especially over people who've researched the material first hand??"QUOTE

The Talmud was written in the capitol of Baalism, Babylon. Talmud has descriptions of Molech rituals also at www.come-and-hear.com... . So, JW + Talmud + Bohemian Grove film + many reference sites at google aren't enough proof? You refuse to look at proof.

You laugh then, but your opinion can't be used to post other articles based on. You avoided supplying the proof I asked for WITH that statement

google.com There see, I am right."QUOTED.

YOU LIED AGAIN! I googled it up for you now; "Anton LaVey + freemason" & second on the list is www.nationmaster.com...
Where's proof he wasn't? That's an encyclopedia site!


Alright, so, now, since you have the apocrypha and know what they are, how do you explain making a statement like this:

Prove that Protestants had the Apocrypha until the Catholics published it"QUOTE.

"The Other Bible"/Harper Collins books has the Apocrypha without background, & I trust nothing you ever say.

Epperson facts are verifiable via Google,

"I am simply stunned that a person can state this. Please demonstrate how his 'facts' are verifiable 'via google'."QUOTE.

Google Anton LaVey + freemason for example.

Only Pike was a regular mason, crowley was an irregular one if i understand correctly, and neither lavey nor blavatsky were masons, regardless of any satanic charges."QUOTE.

www.nationmaster.com...
Encyclopedia proof you denied existed on first page at google. Crowley was French Grand master mason, but Brits refused to recognize him because of is bad rep, but he founded the masonic Ordo Templi Orientis, and was a friend of mafia founder Mazzini.


"How can you possibly give that as a response to a question about what your sources are for baalist rituals amoung the Druids????"QUOTE.

IT IS Druidic Moloch tradition at bohemian Grove. The tradition of May Day BELtaine is dedicated by name BAALtaine, a Druidic tradition.

Well, explain the "Daughters of Job" and "Order of the Eastern Star"

You claimed that blavat was a freemason, not a member of the eastern star or anything else."QUOTED.

And you say Daughters of Job and Order of the Eastern star aren't freemason women?

The founder of the Church of Satan and author of the Satanic Bible Anton LaVey WAS SO a mason

He was not, for proof, see here.

You're caught in yet another lie now! I found second on the Google list proof that Anton LaVey was freemason; www.nationmaster.com...
Show me your proof he wasn't! Better yet, get lost!

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

YOU LIED AGAIN! I googled it up for you now; "Anton LaVey + freemason" & second on the list is www.nationmaster.com...
Where's proof he wasn't? That's an encyclopedia site!

If you'd bother to read your reference materials you would've noticed that the url you display as proof that Anton LaVey was a freemason in fact does NOT say a thing about him being a mason and doesn't even mention freemasonry at all.

At current time, that is.
The page reports that it was "Updated 6 hours 47 minutes ago."

However, the Google search page still displays the information which likely made you write what you did:

Google search page snapshot

Now, we can speculate who changed the information and why, but this demonstrates rather nicely why you or anybody else should NOT use web sites as a proof or a reference to anything since their contents are easily changed.

That's why people here tell you to post references which can be reliably checked.

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck
Readers who care can reread for proof you lied & I never said .. Typical of a no credibility debunker.

You had stated that I wasn't 'worthy' of a response and that you were responding because you were ticked.

Funny, I tried to report your foul play debating style, but no access to that area,

You certainly have access to the complaint form.

Could someone submit a complaint on his behalf about me, put in something like 'nygdan is a prick' or somesuch and provide a link to this thread

so I e-mailed the manager, who's ignoring it,

Do you think its possible he was sleeping or doing any one of a number of things besides sitting at his computer waiting for an from you?? What email did you use??

I've never seen a copy for sale, & it's only available in the dead anguage Saxon, which I can't read.

Ok, so your own ignorance prevents you from reading it. Its not anyone elses responsibility to translate it from saxon into specifically english and publish it for you

I'm confident that you won't find any sites that say I'm wrong at google, so pick a site!
en.wikipedia.org...
According to google and the wikipediak, the illuminati died off in the 1800s, not lived on to secretly rule the world.

As far as the cathars and gnostics being true christians, they can't have been, because of a link found via google

boards.straightdope.com...
The Cathars (or Albigensians, along with the earlier Paulicians and Bogomilists) were not "descended" from the Gnostics in the sense that some secret group of Gnostics kept the "truth" going for hundreds of years

Also, as you can see from this search
www.google.com...

, the cathars were not suppressed by the inquistition. Heck I can even search for
www.google.com...

There, it must be true, google can search for it.

Where's your supposed proof about sonar images of it now?

its entirely possible we are talking about two different pyramids. I really can't tell, since you can't provide any evidence for your claim. What does Brown cite as proof???

I isolated myself from danger in 1994, & fired the mafia lawyer. My PD record is victimless.

Absurd. You were a drug dealer and smuggler with mafia ties and connections, de juris, you aided in the deaths and brutalization of lots of people. Thats what the mafia does, and you were 'nearly a made man' in it.

You said it, not me! the name aovetopsecret is to lure those with classified info to be hunted or discredited unfairly like this, by what you admitted.

Indeed, its true, and I am also secretly King of the Northern Hemisphere, this is how I spend my time between boiling republicanists alive and dancing around in a masonic apron. And clearly, the best way to keep secret information secret is to not only permit, but provide a forum where people can broadcast it.

in the Cointelpro manual, in violation of forum rules.

Bah. Supplement B makes it clear that we're supposed to permit the more radical elements of the insurgency to operate without the mediating influence of the moderates in the insurgency, not confront the insurgency in general. I only hope that you are not another deep cover operative who actually is working under Supplement B, or rather a radical organized by an officer working under Supplement B.

You're not right? You wouldn't have anything in particular to respond to when I say "QX, clear ether to the nth decimal' right??? Gosh I hope not, it'd be such a waste of resources, and its not easy to distribute afghani opium these days what with that damnable freedom of information act and all.

I never claimed any page from that site proved that.

Since that is the topic of this thread, perhaps you should start presenting the pages that claim that.

PAGE 1, 6th link down, titled "The Grove" at www.infowars.com...

If you are going to effectively participate in an online dicussion and talk about whats on other web-pages, you at a minimum need to be able to cut-and-paste a web address. I clicked on the link, it opened, then I highlighted the url with my mouse, held down the CTRL button, and, while still holding down that button, tapped the 'c' button. That copies the stuff that is highlighted. Then I came here and clicked where i wanted the link to appear, held down the CTRL button, and, while still holding down the CTRL button, tapped the 'v' button, this 'pastes' whatever text was copied, the result:
www.infowars.com...

That is the page's address. Notice, nowhere in that page are druids mentioned.

The romans are our only source for what ceremonies or rites that the druids have. I am unfamiliar with any report of biblical moloch-like rituals. Are you? If not, how can you say that the Bohemian Club's "cremation of care' ritual is a Druidic ritual???

May Day BELtaine traditions are named for Baal, because of Druidic Baalism!

Since there is no demonstration that belltaine traditions are druidic, the logical connection alluded to by the etymology is broken, which perhaps doesn't matter much, because the etymology connection is very poor.


The Talmud was written in the capitol of Baalism, Babylon. Talmud has descriptions of Molech rituals also at www.come-and-hear.com... .
These seem to be desciptions of YWH worship, and also moloch worship, and add nothing to the ritual, merely re-iterating that live children were burned as a sacrifice.

So, JW + Talmud + Bohemian Grove film + many reference sites at google aren't enough proof? You refuse to look at proof.

You consistently prove unable to present evidence. The above was a site about people making sacrifices to God, not about the druids, not about the bohemian grove.

I googled it up for you now; "Anton LaVey + freemason" & second on the list is
www.nationmaster.com...

The proof is in google, I can't help it if you can't read google.

"The Other Bible"/Harper Collins books has the Apocrypha without background

What does that have to do with anything? The apocrypha existed and were in the bible before the protestants were around, the protestants cut them out of their bibles.

Please demonstrate how his 'facts' are verifiable 'via google'."

Google Anton LaVey + freemason for example.
This provides multiple sources of information of varying scholarship and credibility that assert contradictory things.

www.nationmaster.com...
Encyclopedia proof you denied existed on first page at google. Crowley was French Grand master mason, but Brits refused to recognize him

Precisely, he was not a regular mason.

because of is bad rep, but he founded the masonic Ordo Templi Orientis,

OTO is not part of masonry, people can be in both, and many feel that the OTO rituals are rip-offs of masonic ones, but that doesn't makle OTO part of Regular Masonry.

IT IS Druidic Moloch tradition at bohemian Grove.

What evidence do you base this on? Why is this such a difficult question for you to answer? What evidence is there that the druids worshipped moloch???

You're caught in yet another lie now! I found second on the Google list proof that Anton LaVey was freemason;

How is this a lie? Google shows that lavey wasn't a regular mason.

[edit on 21-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Hey Nygdan:

Have you researched the distinctions between SPECULATIVE Freemasonry and PRACTICAL Freemasonry and how this fits in to the larger picture of the Illuminati?

Also check out the terms "Baphomet" (from Arab. "Abu-fihamet", lit. "Father of Understanding") and "Jabalon" (=from the trinity of gods YHWH-BAAL-AMUN).

These terms and gods are chanted in some of the upper echelons of some of the upper esoteric Masonic degree rituals involving "skulls" or severed heads.

From what I understand, speculative freemasonry is what modern freemasonry is, sort of "theortical comparative mythology and symbology". Operative masons were the actual stonemasons who formed a fraternity and had rituals within the club. Speculative freemasonry is where the appendant rights are made up, and this starts around the 'revival' period of 1770s. Ashmole and company versus the day labourers.

Also check out the terms "Baphomet" (from Arab. "Abu-fihamet", lit. "Father of Understanding") and "Jabalon" (=from the trinity of gods YHWH-BAAL-AMUN).

I beleive that we have a thread on jabulon and baphomet. I haven't seen that arabic etymology before tho.

These terms and gods are chanted in some of the upper echelons of some of the upper esoteric Masonic degree rituals involving "skulls" or severed heads.

Interstingly enough, the templars were at least accused of having a ritual with the severed head of baphomet.

There's PLENTY of sites to verify that fact at google, not just one, if any tried to verify it themselves.

Show me a site that says it aint so!

edited big quote -nygdan

[edit on 22-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Bloodlines of the Illuminati by Fritz Springmeier documents what clans were the original Illuminati.

Wikipedia allegedly says Illuminati freemasonry doesn't exist anymore, as founded by Weishaupt.

Rothschild & Rockefeller & DuPont clans DO still exist however, having huge financial power, with which to pay off wikipedia and anyone else they want, except me.

Rothschild founded B'nai B'rith, assuring Khazars power. Rockefeller owns the medical industry. DuPont is war machinery; chemicals etc.

Wikis definition may be skewed in favor of the richest in the corrupt world, but the Illuminati clans are still around. Rockefellers seem to have a permanent seat in DC, huh?

'He "THINKS" they're rituals of Moloch. Truth is, he has no idea what a ritual to "Moloch" is really like (because there isn't any such thing, but that never stopped alex.)"quoted.

Many sites at Google back up the Moloch rituals of murder, also spelled Molech, for serious researchers (not professional naysayers).
www.come-and-hear.com... has Talmud as a reference about Moloch rituals of murder, in the statues' belly, as the statue at Bohemian Grove is used. JWs Aid to Bible Understanding also documents the practice. Googlers can find out who's lying thru their masonic fangs.


[edited big quote -nygdan]



[edit on 22-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

There's PLENTY of sites to verify that fact at google, not just one, if any tried to verify it themselves.

Show me a site that says it aint so!

I thought that I just did??

I just tried to verify what you claimed, and found out that it wasn't so.
So the onus is on you to provide PROOF. You are the one who makes claims, so you need to provide backing for your claims.
Saying what you did is no different from saying "It's in the library, go check it out yourself" when you don't provide any spesifics. And even when you do, like on this matter what I reported to you, the actual content doesn't still back your claims.

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

Originally posted by Byrd

QUOTE:"Okay. So your Latin Vulgate IS NOT in Latin???!!"QUOTED.

Latin Vulgate was translated from Latin by St Jerome, & THEY used the word herb, not vegetable, & vegetable makes NO sense in the context.

St. Jerome didn't translate the Vulgate FROM Latin. He translated the various manuscripts INTO Latin. In 405 AD. There was no such thing as Elizabethan English then.

And the word that he wrote there was, as I said, the Latin word for "vegetable." You can look it up in the orignal Latin that St. Jerome wrote with his own pen.

And cross-check it with Latin dictionaries.

BELtaine IS named for Baal. Druid + rituals at google should verify this also. Romans not mentioning Baalism doesn't mean it isn't so.

If you're getting this from Alex, he should be ashamed of his scholarship.

The ancient Roman texts described the druids. One of the Romans knew druids and wrote directly what he was told by the druid. No Baal.

I think you should check the proofs that this guy gave you and ask yourself where the ancient Roman texts and the Ogam texts are that talk about Baal. When you find some ancient texts that talk about Baal worship (I mean the real stuff.... that we can see in the original language and translate words for ourselves) then you have some real proof of it.

Many sites at Google back up the Moloch rituals of murder, also spelled Molech, for serious researchers (not professional naysayers).
www.come-and-hear.com... has Talmud as a reference about Moloch rituals of murder, in the statues' belly, as the statue at Bohemian Grove is used. JWs Aid to Bible Understanding also documents the practice. Googlers can find out who's lying thru their masonic fangs.

Did you read the page you just cited to me?

It cites Gustave Flaubert as its source -- yes, the guy who wrote that fiction novel. Remember, I said that the ideas came from him?

You have just proved my point, sir.

Left hand column, fbottom of the first sidebar.


Alex claims to be a historian -- but he uses as his source a fiction novel written in the 1800's.

I suppose we should be glad that he didn't use the Wizard of Oz as his source instead... he'd likely have Masons worshipping flying monkeys and the Bohemians sacrificing Munchkins to the Wicked Witch of the West.

[edit on 22-9-2005 by Byrd]

Alex has the photo history of the grove, besides current film
and that's not fiction he invented. If the statue is a match to the Talmud Molech statue of sacrifices, it wasn't Alex who arranged it.

[edited big quote -nygdan]

[edit on 22-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Count



Show me a site that says it aint so!

QUOTE:"I thought that I just did??

I just tried to verify what you claimed, and found out that it wasn't so."QUOTED.

That's a serious claim to make without stating what you're talking about. If I posted google about it it's because I'm confident all the sites will agree on it. Hard to keep track of who posted what here.

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

That's a serious claim to make without stating what you're talking about. If I posted google about it it's because I'm confident all the sites will agree on it. Hard to keep track of who posted what here.

Just read my messages, I haven't written that many.

But to recap: You stated as evidence this site. You said that it contains proof that Anton LaVey was a freemason.
I went there and found out that the page in fact did not contain that information. There is also evidence that the page was only recently edited to remove that information; I can agree that you were propably telling the honest truth when you gave that URL as one supporting your views.

However, that URL no longer contains information supporting your view.
I was trying to point out to you that citing web sites as proof of anything is futile because their contents are subject to constant modification and thus web sites can not be accepted as proof of anything.

What I would do if I was in your shoes? I would take some time to go through this thread and collect all the relevant URLs which contain information supporting your view, checking them out, saving a copy and then publishing the information here.
With a copy of your own you can easily see if the site(s) and/or their content has been modified since you last read them yourself.

Please understand that I'm in no way trying to attack or harrass you. I'm only trying to help you to explain your views better by citing sources that you have personally verified, and not just some links that come up on Google with some search keywords.

I was pretty astonished to see that the web site you quoted was so recently modified. Almost like on cue.

Originally posted by James J Dierbeck

Originally posted by Byrd

QUOTE:"And cross-check it with Latin dictionaries."QUOTED

You're nitpicking a totally unimportant point there, like a professional "super moderator" naysayer. The word vegetables still makes no sense in that context, but herb does.

Actually, it does make a good deal of sense there if you read the orignal Latin. Remember, you were citing this verse as proof of the bad translations of other versions of the Bible.

I gave you the original quote in the original Latin.

Then I showed you what the word really said.

Did you ever think that the people who were telling you this might not be reading the Bible correctly -- that THEY were relying on old translators and never actually bothered to check?

That *they* can't read Latin and have so little regard for the truth in the Bible that they won't bother to look up the oldest translations? That they're just going on what someone says?

Go to the Bible yourself-- get the Latin version (it's available online) and start to see for yourself! You will be amazed at the difference in what some people SAY is in there and what really is in the original Latin.

QUOTE:"If you're getting this from Alex, he should be ashamed of his scholarship."QUOTED.

I googled up Beltaine last May Day to learn it means Baaltaine, not from anyone in particular, pick a site about Beltaine & read

We must have different google engines, then. Mine comes up with the Wiccan holiday (no mention of Baal):
www.witchvox.com...

www.tylwythteg.com...

www.celticspirit.org...

www.pagancommunitychurch.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

... and a band.

No Baal.

Alex Jones clearly has no idea about languages, I'm afraid. Otherwise he'd know that the name means "bright fire" in the Irish language (it's a British/Celtic festival) and the original word was "belo-te(p)niâ"

Of the nearly 800,000 sites googled about Beltane/Beltaine, only around 1,000 link it with the name "Baal"... and a survey of them shows they all got it from Alex.

And Alex, as we know, uses fiction novels for his "historical documents."

QUOTE:"about Baal worship (I mean the real stuff.... that we can see in the original language and translate words for ourselves) then you have some real proof of it."QUOTED.

The Talmud was not written by Flaubert or JWs, or Alex Jones, but tells of Baalist rituals with authority, having been written in Babylon, the capitol of Baalism.

Actually, it doesn't.

Here's a link to the Babylonian Talmud:
www.sacred-texts.com...

Browse for yourself. No rituals to Baal in there. Baal is mentioned a few times, but in the context of "lord" (as in "he that uncovers himself before Baal-Peor...")

"Alex claims to be a historian -- but he uses as his source a fiction novel written in the 1800's."

Alex has the photo history of the grove, besides current film
and that's not fiction he invented.

It's not his photos that are in question.. it's his interpretation.

If the statue is a match to the Talmud Molech statue of sacrifices, it wasn't Alex who arranged it.

Ah, but it isn't. And that's the point.

So he uses fiction novels for his "historical docuements" and makes up what's in the Babylonian Talmud.

This isn't a real reliable source.

Originally posted by Byrd[/i
QUOTE:" You will be amazed at the difference in what some people SAY is in there and what really is in the original Latin"QUOTED.

You exclude the possibility of jew motivated tampering with original meanings and wordings, ike the way "Thou shalt not kill" really should be translated "thou shalt not murder unjustifiably". Explain how vegetables are used as religious items! Link me to a bookstore I can buy the Book of Zerubabel at, which SHOULD've been included in the jewish Psuedopigrapha. Eusebius documented jews subtracting scriptures.


QUOTE:"Of the nearly 800,000 sites googled about Beltane/Beltaine, only around 1,000 link it with the name "Baal"... and a survey of them shows they all got it from Alex."QUOTED.

Show me the alleged survey! Now ALEX invented the name BELtaine also? PROVE IT!


"QUOTED:"Browse for yourself. No rituals to Baal in there. Baal is mentioned a few times, but in the context of "lord" (as in "he that uncovers himself before Baal-Peor..."QUOTED.

You accept the Baalist Talmud, but not the Bible record hu? In Exodus the ritual accessories of Moloch ritualism
are brought along, & Psalm 137:8-9 KJV or 136:8-9 other versions is about avenging the ritual baby murders of Baalist Babylon. I've only read parts of the Talmud others have posted online because Talmud doesn't belong in my collection of extraBiblical works.


QUOTE:"Ah, but it isn't. And that's the point."

You may've not noticed the Talmud and traditional notion of Molech furnace statues is COPIED by the towering owl statue at Bohemian Grove, the center of the ritual. It's not based on Alex ideas by Alex. Traditional or not, it's still a copy of the supposedly non-existent Molech statues.