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Iranian President: "we will share nuclear tech with other Arab nations..."

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posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by NR

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by NR
please show your source saying most Iraqis are iranian that are fighting over there, i like to see you proof or your just making iran look bad which i'm not surprised.


"most Iraqis are iranian" - That doesn't even make sense...I said that many extremist in Iraq are from Iran.
I'm suprised that you didn't know this...dont you keep up-to-date on the situation in Iraq?
I know some of the extremist are Iraqis...but some are also from other countries, such as Iran.
I know this from reading or hearing news on it...but i'll see what I can dig up.

Edit: Heres some links.

Iran supporting insurgency

Iranian weapons in Iraq

Extremists Going From Iran to Iraq

[edit on 17-9-2005 by Murcielago]



you still havent answer my question, you only put down sources of iran supplying weapons but no iranians going into Iraq and also your last source only still writes out the weapon supply of iran to iraq not iranians going to iraq., fox news
what a joke.

[edit on 17-9-2005 by NR]


- To me it sounds like I did answer your question.

and Fox is a reliable news source.

Edit: BTW are you from & do you currently live in Iran?

[edit on 17-9-2005 by Murcielago]




posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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SkyFox2:
Many believe that Iraq moved its nuclear tech to Iran before the war, whether that be actual nuclear warheads, or the designs.

As you pointed out Iran signed the treaty stating they would not create nukes, and they are...But the corrupt UN does nothing.

Currently Iran does not have the missile "know how" to reach the US...But its newest missile the Shihab-3 can reach much of the middle east, including Russia and Europe.

The US would not have a problem with some country developing nukes...as long as there a stable country...and preferibly not communist. If a country like Japan decided they wanted nukes, the US would not be in their way to stop them. Iran is an unstable country, so the US fears not only what they themselves would do.....but that they may sell nukes to the highest bidder.


NR

posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
SkyFox2:
Many believe that Iraq moved its nuclear tech to Iran before the war, whether that be actual nuclear warheads, or the designs.

As you pointed out Iran signed the treaty stating they would not create nukes, and they are...But the corrupt UN does nothing.

Currently Iran does not have the missile "know how" to reach the US...But its newest missile the Shihab-3 can reach much of the middle east, including Russia and Europe.

The US would not have a problem with some country developing nukes...as long as there a stable country...and preferibly not communist. If a country like Japan decided they wanted nukes, the US would not be in their way to stop them. Iran is an unstable country, so the US fears not only what they themselves would do.....but that they may sell nukes to the highest bidder.



you know you really cant say iran is making nuclear weapons when theirs no evidence of it in any matter, hell were cooperating more with IAEA and have cameras all around our nuclear facilities showing its for peacefull purposes, This looks like its more of a opinion coming from you than facts.

[edit on 17-9-2005 by NR]



posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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NR - You never answered my question: Do you live in Iran?

Wherever your from I think you are pretty shielded from the real news, considering how well known their nuclear progress is to the rest of us.


NR

posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
NR - You never answered my question: Do you live in Iran?

Wherever your from I think you are pretty shielded from the real news, considering how well known their nuclear progress is to the rest of us.


unfortunatly i dont live in iran but more rather Canada, well i dont think i'm shielded from the real news and i think your taking this whole nuclear thing personal especially when you say were going to make a nuclear bomb and bomb the U.S which i find it redicoulos, IAEA have cameras everywhere and were under full supervision by them so i dont think theres things to bluff about especially when were not even close to reach that point yet.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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NR
especially when you say were going to make a nuclear bomb and bomb the U.S

Please show me in any of my post where I have stated such a comment.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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I will post my reply to a similar thread..just too much to write it all over again..

All nations should have the right to develop peaceful nuclear energy as stated by the NPT itself..
Also Iran's concern in it NOT having to import fuel for its reactors is well-founded as all these imports always come with strings attached..
I am for every nation capable of developing nuclear energy to go ahead and do so..
Now I heard yesterday that the President said in explicit terms that :
"construction,use and proliferation of nukes if forbidden by our spiritualand religious beliefs."
Now its pretty difficult for an islamic nation to go back on a promise like this but having said that look at Pakistan:

1. They have the bomb, and they even go go so far as calling it the "islamic bomb" for the muslim world..That does not falll into place with what the Iranian PM said yesterday at the UN..
(unless there are differences on nukes between the shia and sunni sects!!)

2. Iran has NOT had a totally indigenous nuclear program with proliferation sources coming from pakistan and china..Now pervez musharraf has gone so far as saying that his top dawg nuke scientist has/may have passed nuclear secrets to Iran,libya and North korea..


quote: Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has confirmed that disgraced nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan provided North Korea with centrifuge machines and their designs, Kyodo news agency said on Wednesday. Khan, revered in Pakistan as the man who gave his country the weapons capability to balance that of nuclear-armed neighbour and rival India, admitted last year to leaking nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea. In an interview with Kyodo on Tuesday, Musharraf spoke in public for the first time about Khan's clandestine transfer of nuclear technology, the Japanese agency reported from Islamabad.


Now IMHO the US will face certain "defeat" at the UNSC if they take Iran to it, as they are already tainted by Iraq and the fact that Iran has repeatedly asked for proof behind US claims..

Now the US can prove its claims by simply exposing Pakistan as the sole culprit in having passed nuke secrets to Iran, which is in clear violation of the NPT (though Pakistan is not a signatory of this)..

Iran will be exposed of underhandedly acquiring nuke tech for whatever means; here that is irrelevant as "why should one be underhanded,devious and secretive for peaceful N-tech ??!"

But here the problem lies in the US falling into its own foreign policy quagmire:
Pakistan

By exposing Pakistan the US will be severely backtracking on its "non-NATO ally" and literally selling it(Pakistan) out..
The US has known abt Pakistani proliferation for the last 15 years or maybe even more..
They have chosen to ignore it/downplay it for personal reasons..

Many ask why the Indians are suspicious of the US and are not welcoming them with "open hands" as an ally..
I rest my case..
It literally breaks my heart (as an Indian) to witness this US foreign/nuclear policy hypocracy being practised by the US..
Extremely shameful and illogical..
The US is stubbornly not willing to let go of this supposedly strategic hold on Pakistan.. The cold war is over.. India is not a threat anymore..
Pakistan is a failed state..


EDIT: Why is it unfortunate that you don't live in Iran..
Why isn't there a single Iranian, arab, chinese ATS member who stays in their country of origin..
Its not like there aren't anti- US representatives here on ATS..
I think there are a few ppl from the former soviet republics..
I myself am from India and still very suspicious of US foreign policy..


[edit on 18-9-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 02:19 AM
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My Skeptic, Right Or Wrong


Originally posted by Daedalus3
I myself am from India and still very suspicious of US foreign policy..

I myself am from America and still very suspicious of U.S. foreign policy.

Suspicion is not necessarily a bad thing.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 03:21 AM
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Daedalus3 - ok, I gotta ask.....What's up with the double period thing?
Is that an indian thing or something?



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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posted by Murcielago
I think It would help turn the tide, since many extremist in Iraq, are Iranian.


..Oh dear....Iranian Shias are in Iraq, working alongside Iraqi Sunnis killing iraq Shias.....Ok...... what are you smoking? Are you even aware of what is wrong with that statement?


posted by Murcielago
and it isn't hell living in Iraq, i've seen documentaries that show otherwise, people hanging out at a bar playing games and such, and there infastrusture it getting better by the day.


You have seen documentaries? Must be true then, I mean, a perfect life in Iraq, hanging out at the bar and shooting some pool...what could be better? They even have the twice-daily car bombings, the mortar attacks and shootings for late night entertainment....Great!


posted by Westpoint23
SkyFox2 a warhead with a “Made in Iran” stamp would never be made public, so we have to act on what we have.


Like Iraq? I see..........You have nothing then...or are you waiting for Condi to figure out how to use Photoshop so she can stand in front of the UNSC and claim there are mobile Chem weapons labs....even pictures showing OBL stroking his pet Chihuaha whilst plotting an attack on the US from the roof of Tehran mosque (ignoring the Shia/Sunni thing again)?


posted by Murcielago
Many believe that Iraq moved its nuclear tech to Iran before the war, whether that be actual nuclear warheads, or the designs.


Would that be the many right-wing war fanatics then? No one I have ever spoken too has even sugested that Iran got these "weapons"...In fact, this is the first time I have heard this stupid claim.

Plus...the last time I heard you guys were claiming Syria had them, now its Iran? Make your minds up and stick to it.



As you pointed out Iran signed the treaty stating they would not create nukes, and they are...But the corrupt UN does nothing.


Iran signed the NPT, which forbids weapons, not nuclear power. Show me ANY evidence of Iran breaking the NPT.

And this corrupt UN is the same UN that the US is part of? Thats rich claiming corrupt as well, seeing as how many mega-corps the US Admin is in bed with.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 06:07 AM
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NR, i thnk its pointless saying that no evidence mean no nukes..
and just because the IAEA are involved, and there are camera's in the facilities doesnt really mean jack..

I mean. why would a government of a country build illegial weapons in a facility they know is being monitored aruond the clock.

The idea is that you setup enough decoys for the sheep to BELIEVE there seeing everything..
and all you need is one small underground complex far away from the masses in the most unexpected position to build your bomb undetected.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
NR, i thnk its pointless saying that no evidence mean no nukes..
and just because the IAEA are involved, and there are camera's in the facilities doesnt really mean jack..

I mean. why would a government of a country build illegial weapons in a facility they know is being monitored aruond the clock.

The idea is that you setup enough decoys for the sheep to BELIEVE there seeing everything..
and all you need is one small underground complex far away from the masses in the most unexpected position to build your bomb undetected.


Its attitudes like the above which make it impossible to prove one way or the other.

It's like the US asking Saddam to prove he didn't have WMD...How can you prove a negative?

It gives the perfect excuse for a good ol' raghead bombing mission, thats why.

As it turns out, he didn't have them. Are you willing to do the same again in Iran, which face it, is far more capable at fighting back than Iraq...

But that is probably why the US hasn't attacked....Just like a bully in a playground..he isn't going to start on the member of the Rugby team is he? He is going to pick on the snotty little 7 stone dork who has no chance of defedning himself.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
Daedalus3 - ok, I gotta ask.....What's up with the double period thing?
Is that an indian thing or something?


I wish I could influence my country so..
unfortuntaely its a very "daedaluscian thing"..
And the weird bit is it happened on ATS!
completely developed on ATS..
Why ? is it bugging?


Nowadays sentences with just one period seem ....unfinished!!


I tell you guys, the key is Pakistan.
Do a bit research online itself and you'll be able to link Pakistan to the US' N-proliferation problems: Libya, Iran,N Korea

Even the net has enough data to implicate Pakistan!!




[edit on 18-9-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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I'm sure US wants to attack Iran, and I'm sure they are manufacturing evidence as we speak.....but let's look at the bigger picture here.

Will US ever get UN support for yet ANOTHER war? I doubt it.

Will Russia and it's allies defend Iran? Most definately.

Do the US have any real chance of victory, without starting a true world war? Nope....(and even then....)

What will get acheived? Death and nothing but.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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I realize there have been many people who claim Iran is currently processing uranium with the intentions of creating a nuclear device, or even mass producing such weapons. There’s a problem with that statement though, there’s no evidence to back up the claim. If there was such evidence which shows “beyond the shadow of a doubt” Iran is enriching weapons-grade uranium and creating missiles to launch nuclear warheads with, then I wouldn’t have a problem with considering Iran a possible threat. Even then, however, I myself wouldn’t be willing to attack any nation, to kill, solely on that information.

A side argument for the unprovoked attack on Iran has been “they’re unstable.” A lack of stability in a nation is a good cause to watch their nuclear assets closely, but hardly enough of a reason to further destabilize that nation, creating an increased risk. When the Soviet Union collapsed it lost track of a great deal of nuclear devices, but the US didn’t invade so as to be sure that didn’t happen. Quite simply, there wasn’t enough of a motive. Now Iran is also “unstable” and may or may not be in control of nuclear technology or materials themselves, but the United States wants to invade. Why?

Consider this: The American government is pushing the possibility that Iran may choose to either supply enemies of the west with nuclear arms, or may choose to use them itself. At the same time, the US claims it may require tactical nuclear missiles in an attack on Iran. The United States is openly threatening to use its nuclear arsenal! Clearly Americas’ nuclear policies are unstable themselves, and as a result, some nations might see the US as the larger threat.

As many of you are aware, Venezuela feels America will invade their nation. This is a direct result of the US continually starting wars to “protect itself.” As the opinion of the USA erodes, the possibility for peace and tranquility erodes as well. If America continues down its current path, America will eventually find itself being seen as generally belligerent and a threat to world peace itself. Of course this is already the case, but when it becomes blatantly obvious, and people are no longer able to ignore this, the US will probably find itself in a position similar to where Germany was in WW1 and WW2. The US is sculpting its future, and it’s not a future which screams prosperity.

With each war the United States fights, more wars are found and more enemies are made. This is a prime example of “violence solves nothing.” You can’t force the Middle East into a state of peace at gun point, that’s just not how it works. Furthermore, you won’t make friends by being short tempered, and likely to strike out in any direction which you see fit. You will however make enemies who will fight you because you’re the bad guy, regardless of who you claim or even think you are.

In the American court of law one who attacks another, is a criminal. If one attacks another in self-defense, they are still a criminal unless they were unable to get away. The US can certainly get away, just let Iran be. It’s really as simple as not being a hypocrite. Let them have their nuclear program, monitor them, and if they are doing something wrong, let the CIA or black ops bring back something tangible as proof, and I don’t mean slice of cake to show the UN, I mean a nuclear device, and absolute proof of intention to use it. Once that has been done, then we can consider disarming them.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Will US ever get UN support for yet ANOTHER war? I doubt it.

Will Russia and it's allies defend Iran? Most definately.


The US may not have the entire support of the UN Security Council, but if Iran continues its stance the US will have Europe’s support. And Russia would probably veto sanctions against Iran, but as for fighting the US in a war…they’re smarter than that.


As it turns out, he didn't have them. Are you willing to do the same again in Iran, which face it, is far more capable at fighting back than Iraq...


There are many reasons why the US has not attacked Iran, and its military is not one of them.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Stam,
thats exactly my point.

Its really impossible for any country to succesfully present evidence a country is building nuclear weapons.

Because when a country puts millions if not billions into hiding them.. they will be hidden.

If IRAN is building Nuclear weapons, unfortuantely the USA needs that undeniable proof thats so hard to find, because they tried using 50/50 evidence with iraq and it backfired.

the world wont follow the USA in that situation again, which is why i believed they used up there one chance on IRAQ.

which has just given Iran the advantage.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Stumason
As it turns out, he didn't have them. Are you willing to do the same again in Iran, which face it, is far more capable at fighting back than Iraq...

But that is probably why the US hasn't attacked....Just like a bully in a playground..he isn't going to start on the member of the Rugby team is he? He is going to pick on the snotty little 7 stone dork who has no chance of defedning himself.

You dont know 100% that he didn't have them, just like I dont know 100% that he did have them...thats all apart of the fog of war.

- You make it sound like the US is afraid of going to war with Iran...as if theres a chance in hell of them winning.



posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Manincloak

Will Russia and it's allies defend Iran? Most definately.



Most definately Russia will get into a war with the US over Iran?
You dont know Russia very well.

Russia will only definately do one thing for sure , and thats do whats in Russia's best interest. A direct war with the US is not Russia's best interest which has been proven time and time again during the cold war. We have proxy wars.

You could argue Russia would have a proxy war with the US over Iran thats debatable. But to think Russia's going to definately get into a war with a Super power over Iran


[edit on 19-9-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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AS was pointed out, there are other countries who can do the job. France has spoken up? Very interesting.

You might want to think about some things before you keep on talking as if the U.S. is sovereign and that the decisions made in Washington are made for America. We are no more than pawns, just like most of the Western world. America, a sovereign nation? Only on the surface as an illusion for the citizenry. Try and think a little more like conspiracy theoriests, rather than CNN watchers, huh?
Who will benefit if another war goes down? It wouldn't at all surprise me to see the U.S. in a supporting role while some European countries take the lead, at least enough for their corps. to take the lead in rebuilding and the like.

Remember, the United Nations was not created to bring peace to the world, but to control aggression. Aggression that is good for those who created the United Nations is good aggression. The creators are on both sides of the pond.

I don't know, but could it be that Iran knows something is in the works and is getting a little panicky?



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