Thought I would share this email I received from a neo-con friend of mine

As I mentioned in another thread, I agree with a lot of Libertarian philosophy---after all, there's no government like no government---but I worry about the lack of a social safety net with no welfare system at all and no minimum wage, and I also worry about what would happen to the environment under pure Libertarianism, since there would be no regulations to protect it. I like a lot of what they have to say on other issues, and I certainly trust the people over the state, but I wonder, under pure Libertarianism, if we wouldn't end up with a system of total corporate rule by the wealthiest, and if that were the case, things wouldn't be too much different than they are now. I dunno---there really is no perfect system or philosophy, but it seems to me that we could come a hell of a lot closer to perfect than we are right now.
---Ryan

and the real victims......

there was one couple down in New Orleans, rich enough to take a vacation there.....so they weren't poor. Once they discovered just how bad of a hurricane it was gonna be, well, they tried to get a flight out, they couldn't. they tried to rent a car, there were none available. so, they weren't just sitting around waiting for someone else to take care of their problems. they were stuck there..their only mistake their timing when booking a vacation that they had planned probably months ago..don't know how they fared...

if you want my opinion, the rich/poor, and the race bit is just a diversion as the different proponents of the many different agendas use the event for their own purposes.....it masks the very real truth....that real people, like you and me have been harmed and are in dire straights because of this hurricane and they reallly could use our help!!

Originally posted by djohnsto77
it's obvious he and the governor were absolutely incompetent themselves.

No doubt.

My point was just why does it have to be an either/or thing? That is how we have been screwed for years. The incompetence went from the lowest levels to King George himself. Just because the Mayor was and idiot doesnt let Bush off the hook and visa/versa.

ok - why didnt the " hero republicans " in louisiana get of thier arses and siort thier situation

conversly - why didnt the " looser democrats " in missisippi just kick back and wait for hand outs

the minority in each state still comprises a sizeable %

This is very loosely related, but I was listening to NPR on either Thursday or Friday of last week and there was a gentleman from the BBC interviewing one of the refugees housed at the Astrodome (oops I used that word, oh my).

The thing that really struck me was that the woman being interviewed was actually complaining that she was going to have to walk half way across the stadium to sign up for public housing. I am sorry, but in my opinion if you are too lazy to go walk the 500 or 600 feet to go check on a free house, you don't deserve anything. She was a younger lady and not disabled, so wth is up with that?

That made as much sense to me as the other lady on 2 weeks ago whining because her food wasn't hot. That makes me mad enough to want to go to the Salvation Army and ask for my donation back I figure if you are hungry enough then you really could care less if your food was heated seeing as how there was no friggin electricity in the first place. Heck, after 4 or 5 days without, MREs are pretty darn good as long as you avoid the pork patties and try to score the chicken ala king

Incidentally, these 2 were from New Orleans, but I digress... If this is the mentality that receiving public assistance creates, then maybe the Libertarians have it right on this one and people need to learn some personal responsibility. It does not say anywhere in the Constitution that it is the government's job to feed, clothe, and house you if you don't wish to do it yourself. There will probably be an ammendment in the future, however, if Diane Feinstein has her say. We just have to wait and see.

Some of you are going to be really mad at me know, so feel free to flame me. And no, I didn't vote for Bush. I voted for Badnarik.

Woooo Badnarik!

By the way, Louisiana has a Republican Senator, which was a nice piece of information to leave out. His name is David Vitter.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Woooo Badnarik!

By the way, Louisiana has a Republican Senator, which was a nice piece of information to leave out. His name is David Vitter.

Of course. Louisiana is a very red state and voted for Bush in 2004 too.

As other's have said, this is just more of the wildfire disinformation republispam that fills in-boxes from buddy lists you wish you didn't have everytime someone at freerepublic gets a racist thought in their patriotic little noggin.

And that's the subtext of this whole thing: "Black people are stupid."

Originally posted by Gardenia
I voted for Badnarik.

Then let me welcome you to the Board

If you need any help or have any questions just U2U me

You will find a LOT of Libertarians here

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Amuk]

Darn it, I shouldn't try and quickly type before running out the door. I meant that email that I pasted to my post, not the original! Sorry about the miscommunication.
Mr. Johnston, that was not my words, that was an email I got, and I have no, NO idea if it is credible, or if it is an actual articel written by a real reported or just another piece of internet trash that circulates the world, wasting precious electrons!

I'm with Amuk, there's enough blame to go around for all the dimwits, all deserve more than they'll get and people'll forget about it way too soon. Bringing down one side does not elevate the other.

Originally posted by Amuk


You will find a LOT of Libertarians here

I second the welcome to the board and can tell you that I am a Libertarian also, but have respect and agree with much of the Constitution Party as well.

As to the post, saying that Mississippi has 1/10 of the poor people of NO is incorrect being that Miss and Louisiana are the two poorest states in the country.

I think the problem fits snuggly in the Department of Homeland Security (which I was totally against). It really did seem to work better as it's own agency, but I'd prefer to simply let the states deal with their own problems and perhaps be granted some funding when these things happen with advisors from the Fed.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Mr. Johnston, that was not my words, that was an email I got, and I have no, NO idea if it is credible, or if it is an actual articel written by a real reported or just another piece of internet trash that circulates the world, wasting precious electrons!

Thomas,

I did a little research on what you posted on the first page and have found some of the information to be bogus. I only searched for the declaration of a state of emergency and posted the information that I found as well as the sources. My post is the sixth post down from yours on the first page. I didn't really research the rest. I just figured if they got this wrong most likely the rest would be wrong as well. Although I could be wrong on that assumption. After all, you know what they say about assumptions. I hope this helps.

Jmilici

Thanks for the assistance!

Never trust anything you get from the email; especially if it starts with "FWD"!

Real, non-baiting type question coming:


I wonder how a Liberatrian administration would have handled the situation in The Gulf region? Would they have left the States to handle their own affairs? (hopefuly setting them up properly ahead of time).

How would Local and Federal cooperation be structured?

Originally posted by Dr Love

Here's the email I got from him this morning. I think it speaks for itself.

have all the sympathy in the world for the folk in New Orleans, but unfortunately...this is pretty much the story.


*SNIP*

This email is just plain stupid.
When all levels of government fail people have a right to complain.
Well lets what doing for themselvs as ment .

1. Armed people have been forced from there homes
   
2. It took five days for relief to reach the effected areas
   
3. If you earnt min wage I would like to see you get by little alone rebuild a city
   
4. How are people spose to rebuild there homes when parts of the city are still under water?
   

Where should the homeless go?
Without government help how are people spose to rebuild there homes?
Just nuke the whole area dont help people in geniune need instead give billons of dollars in coprate welfare.

I almost forgot the people that can afford to rebuild there homes were able to leave before the disater took place.

How can any person in there right mind support coprate welfare over helping people in geniune need?


[edit on 16-9-2005 by xpert11]

mod edit of quote to shorten

[edit on 16-9-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Mod Edit: Replaced Missing Italics Tag

[edit on 26/9/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I wonder how a Liberatrian administration would have handled the situation in The Gulf region? Would they have left the States to handle their own affairs? (hopefuly setting them up properly ahead of time).

How would Local and Federal cooperation be structured?

That's a very interesting question, and a good one. I'm not sure what would happen, because having a President with NO support in congress (since the GOP is now liberal and liberals are now progressives) what could he get done?

I'm sure that the only good thing that would happen generally, would be that he would be attacked relentlessly, but he would speak about the corruption and discusting additude of waste and recklessness in Washington that NO ONE else wants to talk about because it doesn't serve their interests.

If we got ONE Libertarian Senator in there, that could be the start of the end, but it won't happen more than likely, because the Dems and Reps are working hard and pouring money to stop them at every turn.

Personally I think it's for protection, being that if someone outside the two, and not under their control actually got access to the information they have and saw behind the scenes, the truth would be leaked faster than Clinton's pant zipper at a Hef party.

(sorry, I don't normally make Clinton jokes, but that one popped into my head and struck me as funny).

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Real, non-baiting type question coming:


I wonder how a Liberatrian administration would have handled the situation in The Gulf region? Would they have left the States to handle their own affairs? (hopefuly setting them up properly ahead of time).

How would Local and Federal cooperation be structured?

I have no idea but that might be a good question to ask any future LP presdential candidate.

What I would do if I called shots: institute some sort of work for food program and give first dibs to residents of affected states, then open it up to people in other states.

IMO, it would be much cheaper than giving contracts to Haliburton, and think it would go a long way in helping people feel they were doing something constructive, and at the same time offering them a way out of poverty (and off of welfare) by paying them to rebuild. Surely there are ways many could help, even if it was just hauling debris or volunteering their time in a shelter or something. It has been done in other countries after disasters, so I don't see why it can't be done here. It would certainly be more constructive than paying money out to people while they stare at the walls and try to figure out what they are going to do.

I am generally against welfare unless it is used for special circumstances (like severe disability) and feel that all of the entitlement programs are very very bad for all. I guess that makes me heartless, but I believe that folks should "earn their keep" as they are able, and most can contribute something to earn it, regardless of how poor, illiterate, or disadvantaged they are.

Before entitlement programs were instituted people managed, and they could again. People just need to be creative and think of ways to help themselves and their communities and contribute accordingly.

This is not my quote, but public assistance should be a trampoline, not a hammock. Too many in this country have turned it into a hammock and that is what needs to change. The $5,000 Bush said he was giving to help people get retrained is not enough to get a college degree, but it certainly would help with going to a vo-tech for a couple of years, getting trained for jobs in the medical field, etc. Some of those jobs could lead to opportunites for insurance and tuition assistance as part of the benefits package offered from those jobs, but I doubt very many will take advantage of the money given to help themselves find a way out

Time to don my flame resistant suit now!

Originally posted by djohnsto77
[I'm not raising the Bush admin to a level of perfection, I think it's quite obvious big mistakes were made at the Federal level (as FEMA director Brown paid for with his job)...however, some people here seem to be trying to make a hero out of Mayor Nagin just because he got on the radio and complained (I would have actually liked to use a different word), but it's obvious he and the governor were absolutely incompetent themselves.

Well, the problem with that assumption is that its logical. As I have found on another thread or two, if you give the locals their share of the blame, that somehow takes ammo away from the Bush haters who seek to give him all the blame. See, there are two trains of thought. Find out where the failures were and correct them and find out how we can attribute all the failures to the political party we hate.

The failures at the local level came with the initial response and lag time in requesting federal help. The failure at the federal level was that bunch of screw-ups known as FEMA preventing food and water from being trucked into the area. make no mistake, in my state when disaster strikes, its state agencies that take control..and they're very good at it. No state wants to have the feds coming in and messing up their procedures thats why under law, the feds must be requested. As we have seen in N.O. FEMA actually made things worse. It wasn't until the military came in that things really started getting cleaned up.

These people defending the local govt. don't know them or even care about them. They have a politcal agenda and nothing will stand in the way of their precious hate.

Originally posted by Amethyst
Conservatives, IMO, tend to believe that you should teach a man to fish. Liberals tend to believe that you should forever hand out free fish to the same man.

No.

They believe they should also get the same rights to learn how to fish as everyone else and only those who can't fish should be given free fish.

The old.
Disabled.
Those sorts of people...

Maybe when you are classed as a 'Liberal' you can speak for them, since you do a poor job of it right now?