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what has the catholic church ever done for us [ or where would we be without them ] ?

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posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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this :

link

is a very strange peice , that has got me thinking , the authors ` logic ` is IMHO bizare and simply ignoresany pesky facts that counter his position

hi have picked out a few choice howlers for special attention - but first an oportumity to let you guys read and inwardly digest


[corrected url code -nygdan]



[edit on 15-9-2005 by Nygdan]

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Nygdan]




posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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If the Catholic Church never existed, our separated Protestant
brethren wouldn’t have the Bible they accuse us of not following closely
enough. It was the early Church that accumulated the works of the New
Testament .....'


This is true. It was the Catholic church that put
together the bible 300 A.D. A Catholic council
voted on it and decided which books were
'okay' and which weren't.

And as far as the rest goes, there are indeed many
wonderful things the Catholic church has given the
world in art, literature, and in Science. There are
things it squashed ..... but it gave better than it took.

Many of the early explorers of N. America were Jesuit priests.
Bl Juniper has his statue in the Hall of Statuaries in
the Capital Building. Each state can send two and
his is from California. Many other Jesuits explored
Canada, the North East and even went down the
Mississippi River. They all mapped the areas for
future explorers.

BTW - Washington DC sits on land donated to America
by one of three CARROLL brothers - Catholics. Another
brother signed the Declaration of Independence and
a third was the first Bishop named in America.


i have picked out a few choice howlers for special attention
- but first an oportumity to let you guys read ...


Oh lovely .... yet another bash the Catholics thread. How original. :shk:
Ridicule must be one of those virtues Christ spoke of on the Sermon
on the Mount. It comes up in these anti-Catholic threads so often.




[edit on 9/15/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
This is true. It was the Catholic church that put
together the bible 300 A.D. A Catholic council
voted on it and decided which books were
'okay' and which weren't.


Although there is evidence that the canon solidified the same year as the first council of Nicea (see the canon of Eusebius in 325), I have been appropriately chastised by roger_pearce (another member well informed on the subject) that there is no such evidence of a vote.



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 04:03 AM
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Contrary to popular uneducated belief the Roman Church did not create the King James Bible. Many Bibles can trace some of their roots back to the Church of Rome but the King James is not one of them. The Roman Catholic Church fought tooth and nail to destroy the King James Bible and all of the true Bible believers that built the foundations of that Bible.

My spiritual descendants were slaughtered in the millions as the Church of Rome attempted to wipe true Christianity from the earth. But God is greater than Rome. God used the blood of his saints to cause His Word to grow and multiply. I can only credit the Church of Rome with one thing. Roman persecution created an environment where true Christians could have their faith tempered in the hot flames of torture and death.


In Christ
James



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Contrary to popular uneducated belief the Roman
Church did not create the King James Bible.

I don't know anyone who thinks that the Catholic Church
created the King James version of the Bible. That version
is short 6 books. The original version which the Catholic
church put together has all books intact.




posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham
there is evidence that the canon solidified the same year as the first council of Nicea (see the canon of Eusebius in 325


There weren't any 'protestants' around `350 A.D. All roads
lead to Rome. It was Catholics who put the bible together.
I know that's tastes sour to fundamentalists, but that is a
fact.

Council of Nicea information -
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...

Status of scripture - Origen to Nicaea (250-325)

Gospels, Acts, Pauline Corpus - all accepted.
Hebrews - Accepted in the East, Disupted in the West.
James - Disputed in the East. Not accepted in the West
1 Peter - Fairly well accepted
2 Peter - Still disputed
1 John Fairly well accepted
2,3, John, Jude - Still disputed
Revelation - Disputed especially in the East. Rejected by Dionysius

Council of Nicaea (325) Questions canonicity of James, 2 Peter,
2 John, 3 John, and Jude

From 325 to the Council of Carthage (397)
Gospels, Acts, Pauline Corpus, 1 Peter, 1 John - Accepted
Hebrews - Eventually accepted in the West
James - Slow acceptance. Not even quoted in the West until 350
2 Peter - Eventually accepted
2, 3 John, Jude - Eventually accepted
Revelation - Eventually accepted. Rejected by Cyril of Jerusalem,
John Chrysostom, Gregory Nazianzen
Epistle of Barnabas - Codex Sinaiticus - late fourth century
Shepherd of Hermas - Codex Sinaiticus - late fourth century
1 Clement, 2 Clement - Codex Alexandrinus - early 5th century.

*sources (all protestant) -
J.D. Douglas, ed., New Bible Dictionary
F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingston, ed, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian
Church (Oxford University Press 1983)
Norman L. Geisler and William E. Nix (from God to Us, How we got our
Bible (Chicago: Moody Press 1974)

[edit on 9/16/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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QUOTE : "Oh lovely .... yet another bash the Catholics thread. How original.
Ridicule must be one of those virtues Christ spoke of on the Sermon
on the Mount. It comes up in these anti-Catholic threads so often.
"

wrong on almost every count - the author of that article put his head above the parapet

i have nothing against most catholics - i went to a jesuit accademy

but when he claims that the catholics deserve sole credit for the developement of hositals and univerities , maybe he deserves ridicule

YRS - APE



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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What have they given us? Dark Ages. The time where the church killed millions for being smart. "What? Proof we aren't flat/center? Kill em all!" What? Proof we are full of it? Kill em all! The church nearly killed everyone on this planet with their stupidity. They killed millions both violently and subtly. Oops, could have cured you, but church says medicine is witchcraft so evil. Oops, bathing more then once a year is evil according to the church. Oops, instead of doing something smart we are gonna do the exact opposite thus killing millions. oops, this land has people in it, give them small pox blankets to get rid of them. Oops, they are human, tell the masses that blacks aren't human but property and use the bible to prove that they should be slaves.

Church is evil, christianity is great! Don't kill, rape, steal, hurt others unless in defense, the concept of Judaism and Christianity are great, but the church/christians turned it into something I wouldn't touch with a 50 foot pole. The church, if it never existed, would have benefited this planet 10 fold, the advancement of science and history would alone have been worth getting rid of the wars, the massacers, the genocides they committed. Alexander Library would still exist! Priceless amounts of information, literature, and history were lost when the church had it destroyed. Go Christianity, boo bible, church, christians.



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Welcome back there JTL
You may want to add that the same things that you are nailing christianity on can be blamed on many other reasons such as racism (remember the master race) patriotism to any nation at any time has also lead to the same banes that you subscribe to christianity.
it maybe that you fully believe that the root of all evil in the world stems from christianity (Ouch stubbed my toe! Dang those Christians!), you may want to remember that others recognize that such ills are not the sole responsibility of christianity



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
but when he claims that the catholics deserve sole credit for the developement of hositals and univerities , maybe he deserves ridicule


... or maybe the author of this thread needs a history lesson -
www.amazon.com...

Funny. Most anti-Catholics complain about the fact that the Catholic
church invented, and had a monopoly on, Universities. That Galileo
had to do his research OUTSIDE the university system because it
was invented and run by dark age Catholics. And yet here you are ...
claiming that these facts are in error and that Galileo could have
stayed within the institutions that were founded and expanded by the
Catholic Church.



posted on Sep, 16 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Galileo could not have stayed within church tenets and exposed the undeniable fact that the sun does not revolve around the earth. Copernicus was commissioned by the Pope to rectify the calendar, and in so doing, laid the ground work for Galileo's breakthrough, but Galileo died accused as a heretic by a later pope.


If you've never read any of Galileo's writings, then I can recommend a good one, Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany, 1615.

You might want to follow up on the actual account of the trial: The Crime of Galileo: Indictment and Abjuration of 1633

Obviously the church misrepresents her role grossly in the assignment of Galileo as a heretic--and the author of the article originally linked to in this thread did not question her version of the story.

Decide for yourself.

[edit on 9/16/2005 by queenannie38]



posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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Absolutely Queenannie. You helped prove my point.
The Catholic Church had a monopoly on the Universities.
They basically invented them, and they ran them.
Dark age Catholics. :shk: Galileo had to work outside the
system and it took hundreds of years (and Pope John
Paul II) to 'clear' his name within the church.

At any rate, the Catholic church DID invent and run the
Universities. It was a Catholic invention. Poorly run for
the first few hundred years ... but it was definately a
Catholic invention.



posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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actually,
universities were not invented by the christian church. They may well indeed have governed places of higher learning throughout the dark ages but they were not the inventors.
You may want to remember the fabled University of Alexandria which they beleived was uncovered last year. The date that has been given for the site is arount 30BC so it would pre-date christianity by at least 100 years.
University of Alexandria Unearthed

The Mouseion

paleojudaica.blogspot.com...



posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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The catholic church may have been the first to set up universities in Europe,but as kenshiro mentioned there were earlier institutes of higher learning both in Asia and Africa.The church did not invent them.



posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Absolutely Queenannie. You helped prove my point.
The Catholic Church had a monopoly on the Universities.

Having a monopoly on something doesn't prove invention, it proves oppression. Of which the Catholic church had a monopoly of, in general, for a span of time, the most pervasive of which is now known in history books as the dark ages.

Many of their 'monopolies' resulted in countless executions of those who dare think 'outside the box'--the box being the church, itself.

Besides that, what good is a monopoly on something which is based on superstitious misinterpretations of the bible--namely--'education' which promoted ideas such as the sun revolving around a flat earth?

How many times has the church had to eat her own 'holy' words?


Just guessing, I would bet the earliest universities sprung out of Egypt--definitely not the church.



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Alright ... let me rephrase ....

There were libraries in ancient times. However, the system of
Universities that we have, where people everywhere send their
kids off to get a higher education, didn't develop or evolve until
the Catholic Church exploded onto the scene.

They were run by the Catholics - for better or worse. It was
the expansion of the Catholic church that brought the Universities
throughout the world. Yes, they got much of their science wrong.
Heck, we still do today. - eggs are good for you, no wait they are bad
for you, nope now they good for you. another goodie -
in the 1920's doctors told their patients to smoke because it
was good for them. Smoking helped 'calm the nerves'. :shk:



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Alright ... let me rephrase ....

There were libraries in ancient times. However, the system of
Universities that we have, where people everywhere send their
kids off to get a higher education, didn't develop or evolve until
the Catholic Church exploded onto the scene.



No,while there were libraries,there were also UNIVERSITIES,centres of higher learning that people travelled to.
I said earlier the church may have brought seats of higher learning to Europe but on thinking about it thats not right,the ancient Greeks had centres of learning.Plato for example founded The Academy over 300 years bc and taught philosophy and mathematics.







[edit on 18/9/2005 by Ras Dedan]



posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
However, the system of
Universities that we have, where people everywhere send their
kids off to get a higher education, didn't develop or evolve until
the Catholic Church exploded onto the scene.

They were run by the Catholics - for better or worse. It was
the expansion of the Catholic church that brought the Universities
throughout the world.

When, exactly, are you referring to? Before or after the reformation?

It's hard to just sweep this kind of tyranny under the carpet, though--I can't see that even the 'gift' of universities could make up for the oppression caused by this Papal decree, especially concerning those who were executed for not abiding by it.

What's the official line of apology regarding the Council of Trent? Or is it just something never mentioned?



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