It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

If your government asked you ... would you kill?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 09:57 PM
link   
A nation can have all of the weapons it wants and or needs, but ulitmately it is the individual who makes a difference in war time (declared or otherwise, against a state or global terrorist network). What if government agents came to you -- yes you -- because you had some specific ability, trait, personality type, talent or physical trait. And just suppose that asked that you do one thing for them -- to kill someone.
Would you?

First, how would they convince you that they were actually from the government? What credential or proof could they possibly provide to convince you kill someone? You'd want to be certain you were doing the right thing, wouldn't you?

How could they convince you that your action -- in killing someone -- was actually vital to "national security"? Or would you just take their word for it?

It is almost assumed that the person that the government is asking you to kill is, well, a bad person. A very bad person. But! What if the person that they were asking you to kill was NOT a bad person, but whose death was, somehow, vital to national security. Would you still do as your nation asked?

And, finally, what if the government was asking you to kill someone you know or who was even related to you? How far would you go just because a representative our your government asked you?




posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:25 PM
link   
Depends on who it was they wanted me to kill.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:43 AM
link   
Well for me there is a simple answer to the question...
I have given an oath to defend my country to the bitter end and to defend it's legal goverment and way of life... so if it's the military who's asking i couldn't say no...
But this is the case of a small country which generally doesen't go around killing people, thus the situation where they'd ask me to kill someone would be a one step from war type of thing



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 03:16 AM
link   
It would be against all my principles to kill someone no matter who asked me to do it, even if it was a government official, no matter what this person had done or whatever threat they posed to national security, I still wouldn't. As for killing someone who I personally knew for no matter what reason, I wouldn't do that either.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:07 AM
link   
Too many variables to give a yes or no answer.


But I will say that if I were the type of person who persued a line of government duty that would lead me to an asignment like this, I would have to say yes. But this would be an easier question for somebody in that situation as they have already decided to be involved in such things.

As a civillian who has not conditioned himself to follow a career path that would lead to an job like that, I would have to say it depends. Family? No. But I dont think I would have much of an issue killing somebody that I myself percieved as an enemy of my government. It would be alot easier if they werent American either.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:16 AM
link   
Nope.

Personal beliefs, ethics etc would prevent me from doing so.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:43 AM
link   
If this happened to me, and George W. Bush wasn't the person they wanted me to kill then.....I'd give them the finger, and tell them to go and shove it up their big fat ugly *rear ends*.

The US government kills it's own people all the time, and now they want one of it's people to kill someone else?

Hell no!



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:56 AM
link   
I have a hard time even killing bugs. So my answer would be a big NO.
Life is very important and very special. From the smallest insect to the largest
mammel to whatever else may exist in the universe.

The only way that I can think of, were I would be able to kill a person would be through self defence. Even then I would try to find another way to resolve the problem.

It's too bad that our government and most americans didn't feel this way. There would be much less sensless killings in this country and others.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:57 AM
link   
so if the govt tells you to kill Osama you would say no right? sure u would check who the govt wants you to kill and if you find out its the infamous terrorist you would say no because its against my beliefs or religion even though the terrorist is a threat to me and my family?



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:05 AM
link   
I would want to know if the person was truly guilty of a heinous crime, and that includes Osama. I would have to be shown definitive proof that my family and my fellow citizens were in imminent danger. It would have to be more definitive than a questionable video.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:06 AM
link   
First of all, osama is no more a threat than saddom was. Al-Qaeda will continue to run without osama. Second, you do not need to kill him to get justice. In my opinion justice would be a trial, and imprisonment without parol for the rest of his life. This eye for an eye crap is not justice. That kind of mentality is childish and went out with the dark ages.




even though the terrorist is a threat to me and my family?


They are no threat to me and my family. And you bet your a** that if they came here to try anything I would protect myself & my family. But the odds of them comming here are astronomical so I will not cower and be scared of them.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmilici
But the odds of them comming here are astronomical so I will not cower and be scared of them.


the odds?
u be surprise how far reach Al Qaeda hands are around the world.

en.wikipedia.org...


Al-Qaeda training camps trained militant Muslims from around the world, some of whom later applied their training in various conflicts in places such as India, Algeria, Chechnya, the Philippines, Egypt, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, Kosovo, and Bosnia. Other terrorists came from Pakistan, parts of Africa, the People's Republic of China (Uighurs), and the United Kingdom. These terrorists intermingled at their camps, causing all of those causes to become one. Despite the perception of some people, al-Qaeda members are ethnically diverse and are connected by their fundamentalist version of Islam. They are also connected by their common pledge of loyalty to Bin Laden.



dont think you are immune to Osama and his group. they are everywhere. the question is who are his operatives are since they dont exactly advertise their terrorist resume. he may be working at a gas station near you. he may be an imam in a mosque near you. he may be just a person that looks western but is still Muslim near you in college, etc.


[edit on 15-9-2005 by deltaboy]



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by jmilici
But the odds of them comming here are astronomical so I will not cower and be scared of them.


the odds?
u be surprise how far reach Al Qaeda hands are around the world.

en.wikipedia.org...


Al-Qaeda training camps trained militant Muslims from around the world, some of whom later applied their training in various conflicts in places such as India, Algeria, Chechnya, the Philippines, Egypt, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, Kosovo, and Bosnia. Other terrorists came from Pakistan, parts of Africa, the People's Republic of China (Uighurs), and the United Kingdom. These terrorists intermingled at their camps, causing all of those causes to become one. Despite the perception of some people, al-Qaeda members are ethnically diverse and are connected by their fundamentalist version of Islam. They are also connected by their common pledge of loyalty to Bin Laden.



dont think you are immune to Osama and his group. they are everywhere. the question is who are his operatives are since they dont exactly advertise their terrorist resume. he may be working at a gas station near you. he may be an imam in a mosque near you. he may be just a person that looks western but is still Muslim near you in college, etc.


[edit on 15-9-2005 by deltaboy]


Like I said, I am not going to be scared of them. Plain and simple. I am more scared of my government than these so called terrorist. If you want to live your life running around scared that the "terrorist" are going to get you, go right ahead. Me, I will live my life without this fear. No stats or sources will convinve me otherwise. To have this fear you are not only playing right into the government hands you are letting the terrorist win. That is what they want, people to live in fear.

If it is my time to go then it is my time to go. There is nothing I can do about it. I will just live my life trying to be the best that I can at whatever I put my mind to.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by deltaboy
so if the govt tells you to kill Osama you would say no right? sure u would check who the govt wants you to kill and if you find out its the infamous terrorist you would say no because its against my beliefs or religion even though the terrorist is a threat to me and my family?


Actually yes. I'm going to try and explain why, or at least give part of the reason.

The taking of any life is, for the most part, deplorable. And the situation you describe just isn't that simple to start with. You've named a very obvious candidate, and one who is known as a terrorist.

Why is he a terrorist?

His reasons are many. Are those reasons valid? To you, obviously not. To him, obviously they are. To me, his reasons might have some valid basis, even if his method of delivery is inexcusable.

So, knowing that he has reasons, and knowing that in his eyes, America is the terrorist - who is more "right"? Us? Because we're the victims of such attacks? Or him, because in his eyes, he wouldn't be doing it if he hadn't have been forced - by us - to do so in the first place?

The situation just isn't that black and white to me, you know? We sit here, in our comfortable little homes, with our computers, our internet access and our laissez faire attitude, and how many of us actually bothered to inquire as to exactly why these terrorist attacks are occurring?

Would our opinions change if we were living in Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or perhaps even Israel?

Would killing Osama stop terrorism? No, it wouldn't. What would it accomplish?

So no. I truly don't think I could kill Osama. And the government would probably realise this very, very quickly anyway....I'm one of the least suitable candidates on the planet to perform such a task, and that's screamingly obvious..


dont think you are immune to Osama and his group. they are everywhere. the question is who are his operatives are since they dont exactly advertise their terrorist resume. he may be working at a gas station near you. he may be an imam in a mosque near you.


I don't think anyone really believes they're immune from such an attack.

Having said that, what are we meant to do? Let "them" win? If we're suspicious of every Muslim, every person of even vague Arabic descent, then that's exactly what we're doing. Letting 'em win, by terror.

I hope I don't need to say this, but I'm gonna do so anyway...I do not support terrorists, and I obviously do not support their actions. I do support the notion of seeing both sides of the story, and trying to point out that it's never as black and white as it might seem...



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 09:55 AM
link   
no comments...
Wuahahahahahha!



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 10:01 AM
link   
Tinkleflower, you hit the nail right on the head. I wish I could have
said it as eleganty as you did.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 10:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by Manincloak
If this happened to me, and George W. Bush wasn't the person they wanted me to kill then.....I'd give them the finger, and tell them to go and shove it up their big fat ugly *rear ends*.

The US government kills it's own people all the time, and now they want one of it's people to kill someone else?

Hell no!


If you are an American living in America, you may want to edit your response. Its illegal to threaten the President in any way shape or form. Your your little wording "dance" around a direct threat doesnt protect you. Im serious.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:06 PM
link   
Living not far from the CIA's "Farm" outside of Williamsburg, Virginia I am given to thinking some of these things through as best I can. Also there are a number of high visibility military bases here. Also just south of me there is the famous or infamous Blackwater Security Consulting firm just on the other side of the border in North Carolina.
It occurs to me that this government has a number of professionals trained in this type of "wet work". Greater numbers of them have gotten out of the service and retired over the years. This government also has access to a number of private contractors for this type of work. I am sure they will deny this facet of operations.
In my judgement for a government to seek out a private citizen...trained or not ..to do this indicates that they are looking for a fall guy ..plauseable deniability. It is very likely that anyone doing this kind of work for the government will soon be expendable without extreame leverage over said government. Mind you ..it could mean that they are extreamly hard up for someone to do this work but I doubt it!!! Got the point????

Now for the main question on this topic. Would I do this for the Government... No..no way....for the reasons stated above.

Would I do this if trouble came to my neighborhood...yes...but not for the government. For my family , my neighbors my coworkers/friends.

In my line of work..shipbuildng ..I have had the opportunity to put my life on the line for my moneys many times. I know the risks in success and also of failure. I have worked about 20 years in the construction/overhauls of SSBNs SSNs and aircraft carriers. I know that on certain hazardous tasks...if you do not do it today you or someone else will be doing it tomorrow or the next shift. This knowlege does not make one better than other people..no way. It does, however, make one different. Especially in the manner one thinks about certain things/events. This knowlege also makes one very particular about whom is standing next to you when doing this type of work. I dont believe I want the government watching my back in this sequence of events. They would tend to whore it out to politics not watch your back. Simple common sense..
I will elaborate further on something jmilici posted. I do not fear for myself so much. I dont want to live in fear all the day long. If I can help it I wont. I fear more for my family. Mother/Father brothers and sisters. To me they live so falsely secure in their worlds they havent a clue. It was the same for those people in New York, Madrid and London on those fateful days. Soon enough it will be so again.

I agree with you Tess about killing Osama will not stop terrorism.
I do, however, know that real Islam is Jihad. Spreading the faith by the Sword if necessary. From the Haddith.."May the Sword of Islam rest upon the neck of the Indifel". From the begining the faith was to be spread by the sword.

I also know that most Muslims to their credit do not practice true Islam. They just want to earn a living and support their familys. I have no problem with this and show them no animosity or hatred.
I do however also know that when the radical clerics come to the Mosque they must submit in silence and obey. This is the essence of Islam "Submission". For a Muslim not to submit is to be branded a Infidel and they can be killed in Jihad. To kill a Infidel in Jihad is to be granted automatic entrance in to Paradise when one passes. This belief system is how they get so many to do the things done which are so abhorrant to westerners.
Most westerners are totally ignorant of this facet having been taught that all religions are the same religion. It is not so in this case. The media and public schooling do nothing to teach differently. Most are asleep at the wheel.
My knowlege of this comes from a convert to Christianity , a former Muslim Imam and a graduate on the PHD level of Al Ahazar University in Cairo , Egypt. This is the same university where many of the more radical muslim clerics have been trained.
For his conversion Mark Gabriel, obviously a pen name, lives under a constant sentance of death by any Muslim willing to carry out Jihad on him.
This is not a religion of peace. No matter what "experts " try to tell the public. In this country if you want to leave a church you dont get a sentance of death upon you...except in Islam.

Islam and Terrorism
Mark Gabriel
ISBN 0884198847

Tess..you are correct when you say it is not black and white. It is quite a dilemma for many of us.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 02:34 PM
link   
The governments (and other organisations) run out of young men willing to go out and kill other young men will be a happy one for us all.

But I can't see it happening anytime soon.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 03:01 PM
link   
As a soldier, I would not, in cold blood, kill anyone if I could help it. The circumstances would dictate my actions in the theater of war and my mind would be weighing choices in split seconds.

As a retired soldier, I would not be talked into killing anyone.
I would, however, kill if I or my family or a helpless individual was threatened with death.

There are no scenarios which could change my mind...money, national security interests, wheedling guvmint agents pestering me...nothing.

I would prefer to take OBL alive, so he could stand trial, have his say and serve his sentence. I would spend the $5 million on frivolous things.







[edit on 15-9-2005 by masqua]



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join