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Flight 93 Memorial a Nod to Islam?

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posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 09:19 PM
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The proposed memorial to flight 93 which crashed in a Pennsylvania field has come under criticism from people who think it resembles the Islamic crescent, the symbol of Islam...Islamic fundamentalist terrorists were the cause of the crash:



There's a growing outcry that one element of the newly chosen Flight 93 National Memorial represents Islam and is a slap in the face to the passengers and crew members who died on the hijacked plane four years ago.

The winning design, announced Wednesday in Washington, D.C., includes what is called the "Crescent of Embrace." That element of the project calls for two rows of red maple trees to be planted around a bowl-shaped piece of land adjacent to the crash site. The trees, according to the architects, are there to create a physical edge to the landscape and accentuate the topography.

Almost immediately upon seeing the design, online bloggers suggested that it is inappropriate to use a red crescent in the memorial.

www.post-gazette.com...





Some have suggested this is a manifestation of the Stockholm Syndrome, what do you think?

[edit on 9/14/2005 by djohnsto77]




posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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They should lay those trees out like two of these:


Because it was two sidewinders that took that plane down.

The use of obvious Islamic symbology, 'the red cresent', which is basically just the Islamic version of our 'Red Cross' and is even acknowledged as part of the international red cross movement, is probably just more subtle propaganda at re-enforcing the 'Islamists did it' story.

Let's debate the symbology of the crash memorial rather than the actual cause of the crash!

The idea of the trees is all good but why would they use obvious islamic symbology if not to just re-enforce the story they've created around Flight 93 which is one of the most obvious lies in 9/11.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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HAHAHHAHAHahahahahahaaaaaaa! Not one, but TWO Sidewinders


Do you realize the large smoke trail these leave? Do you realize they make a huge roaring noise? Do you realize, if the aircraft was at normal cruise elevation, it was out of range of a Sidewinder?

Do you realize how silly you sound?




posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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here is the image


The idea is that the red maples will turn read seasonally. I rather like the idea, a nicely lasting memorial. But the shape, egads!



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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I wasn't aware that islam had been so burned into your psyche/s that an incomplete circle was now totally off limits design wise because in your minds the muslims have copyrighted it. I suppose you sheild your eyes from the moon when it is waning.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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It doesn't recall to your mind a red crescent? Of course, the crescent as a symbol of islam isn't normally read anyways.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:54 PM
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It says to me "incomplete". A journey that never made it, lives that where never fully lived. I also says to me that the hijackers mission was never realised. That the passengers thwarted their attempt to do much more damage. Their ends were never met. But that's just me.



But the architects who created the winning design say their design has nothing to do with Islam.

"A crescent is part of architectural vocabulary. It's a generic form used in design," said Paul Murdoch, one of the winning architects. "We don't see any one group having ownership of it."


As is said in the article, it could also be called an arc.



[edit on 14-9-2005 by cargo]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Army
HAHAHHAHAHahahahahahaaaaaaa! Not one, but TWO Sidewinders


Do you realize the large smoke trail these leave? Do you realize they make a huge roaring noise? Do you realize, if the aircraft was at normal cruise elevation, it was out of range of a Sidewinder?

Do you realize how silly you sound?




Tell that to this guy:

Rick Gibney - 119th Fighter Wing - Happy Hooligans


"The vice president knew the fighter pilots might have to take out a hijacked passenger jet. 'I recommended we auhorize them to shoot,' Cheney recalls telling Bush. The president said, 'OK, I'll sign up to that.' And just about the time Cheney was ordering fighters to 'engage United Flight 93 - the blip on the radar screen - crashed into a field in Pennsylvania, 80 miles from the capital. The pilots flying the patrol, members of the North Dakota Air National Guard's 119th Fighter Wing, known as the Happy Hooligans, say their radio frequencies were cluttered with orders and chatter. At one point, one of the pilots thought he heard the Secret Service say 'Protect the House' - presumably the White House."

—Newsweek, Special Double Issue, "The Day That Changed America", Dec. 31, 2001/Jan 7, 2002


"At precisely 0938 hours, an alarm was sounded at Langely Air Force Base, and those whom were on call, drinking coffee, were scrambled. Thus the 119th Fighter Wing was off for an intercept.

They, the Happy Hooligans, a unit of 3 F-16 aircraft, were ordered to head toward Pennsylvania. At 0957 they spotted their target; After confirmation orders were received, A one Major Rick Gibney fired two sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in mid flight at precisely 0958;

He was awarded a medal from the Governor one year later for his heroic actions. As well as Decorated by Congress on 9/13/2001. The Happy Hooligans were previously stationed in North Dakota, and moved to Langley Air Force base some months before 911 occured on a "Temporary assignment."

For those that want to DENY IGNORANCE, read more about this at:
letsroll911.org...

Or listen to an interview with Col. Donn de Grand-Pre, U.S. Army (ret.). who also says two sidewinders and knows Rick Gibney personally.
www.prisonplanet.com...

But yeah, it's much more of an American Hero story to believe that the passangers yelled "Lets Roll" and crashed the plane to save everyone!
You realise how silly that sounds??

Wow, look at that "large smoke trail".



Now lets try some eye witnesses:

"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms - and then I did not hear anything."

“Normally I wouldn’t look up, but I just heard on the news that all the planes were grounded and thought this was probably the last one I would see for a while, so I looked up,” she said. “I didn’t see the plane but I heard the plane’s engine. Then I heard a loud thump that echoed off the hills and then I heard the plane’s engine. I heard two more loud thumps and didn’t hear the plane’s engine anymore after that.”

"We didn't hear that plane coming until it was right on top of us," she said. "Then there was a roar." She said the plane appeared to be gliding into the ground. "All at once it just stopped. There was no engine noise, nothing. Someone hollered, Oh my God!' and then there was a real loud thud."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said. Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

www.flight93crash.com...


Whatever, as if you'd believe anything which would stain American Hero story anyway.




[edit on 14-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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Nope, you link to lies and fools.




F-16 Pilot
CLAIM: In February 2004, retired Army Col. Donn de Grand-Pre said on "The Alex Jones Show," a radio talk show broadcast on 42 stations: "It [Flight 93] was taken out by the North Dakota Air Guard. I know the pilot who fired those two missiles to take down 93." LetsRoll911.org, citing de Grand-Pre, identifies the pilot: "Major Rick Gibney fired two Sidewinder missiles at the aircraft and destroyed it in midflight at precisely 0958."

FACT: Saying he was reluctant to fuel debate by responding to unsubstantiated charges, Gibney (a lieutenant colonel, not a major) declined to comment. According to Air National Guard spokesman Master Sgt. David Somdahl, Gibney flew an F-16 that morning--but nowhere near Shanksville. He took off from Fargo, N.D., and flew to Bozeman, Mont., to pick up Ed Jacoby Jr., the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office. Gibney then flew Jacoby from Montana to Albany, N.Y., so Jacoby could coordinate 17,000 rescue workers engaged in the state's response to 9/11. Jacoby confirms the day's events. "I was in Big Sky for an emergency managers meeting. Someone called to say an F-16 was landing in Bozeman. From there we flew to Albany." Jacoby is outraged by the claim that Gibney shot down Flight 93. "I summarily dismiss that because Lt. Col. Gibney was with me at that time. It disgusts me to see this because the public is being misled. More than anything else it disgusts me because it brings up fears. It brings up hopes--it brings up all sorts of feelings, not only to the victims' families but to all the individuals throughout the country, and the world for that matter. I get angry at the misinformation out there."
Real link to real reality



*fixed excessive bolding*


[edit on 15-9-2005 by dbates]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by Army
Nope, you link to lies and fools.




And you link to Popular Mechanics, one of the most obvious sites dedicated to waffer thin debunking to fellatio the governments story.

Yeah, the same 'media' that said the reason the WTC didn't fall in '93 was because the concret slab floors aborbed most of the impact of the bomb and dissapated the damage, yet on 9/11, Popular mechanics did a total reversal and said the floors had zero resistance!

I'm sure this pilot can't speak about what happened, that's the usual series of events for agreeing to silence as opposed to exposing a governments lies and having your career, family and life over with.

It's not hard to change his story after the fact, the 9/11 comission changed a lot of stories to suit their tale of events, even contradicting themselves doing it.

As for Edward F. Jacoby, Jr, what a shock that someone involved in 9/11 would say that story isn't true, after all he was just in charge of state management on that day, he doesn't have a finger in the pie. Look at the innocent logo he's sworn to work under, i mean, this isn't symbology of someone working for the maestro's is it? Do they often use F-16s as taxis?



[edit on 15-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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Isn't there a separate forum with plenty of threads to discuss 9/11 conspiracies? Please don't hijack my thread.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Isn't there a separate forum with plenty of threads to discuss 9/11 conspiracies? Please don't hijack my thread.


Yes true, my apologies.

I think the memorial is a nice gesture, the tree idea will work well, kind of like how Poppies turn red during rememberance but the shape, is that a conspiracy or what?

It obviously has more than one meaning, conspiracy and non-conspiracy but i wonder what designs got rejected for this one to win? Are there any designs of the ones that didn't win? I wonder if they were more appropriate?



[edit on 15-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Isn't there a separate forum with plenty of threads to discuss 9/11 conspiracies? Please don't hijack my thread.


No, this is the forum for discussing 911 conspiracies. And yes there are pletny of threads about it. But it could be argued that this belongs in BTS if all you want to discuss is what the arc memorial represents design-wise to people.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by cargo
No, this is the forum for discussing 911 conspiracies. And yes there are pletny of threads about it. But it could be argued that this belongs in BTS if all you want to discuss is what the arc memorial represents design-wise to people.


No, you are wrong. This is War On Terrorism which is more or less a news forum to discuss War on Terror related developments. There is now a separate forum 9/11 & 7/7 Conspiracies to discuss conspiracy theories related to those and other terror events.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:49 AM
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You may find it interesting that the memorial design the memorial committee liked most was hidden from the contest jury.
You can view the design that was hidden at www.americas911memorial.com
Not only was the design hidden, the person who insisted it be hidden took away 3 million dollars from the committee to buy the land because he found out the committee liked the design. He said he wouldn't get them any money to buy the land or build the memorial if this design was selected. The same person pushed the Crescent design. Some of you may not realize that the crescent is surely a Islamic symbol. The palestinian army is called the "Army of the red crescent." The crescent appears on many Islamic countries flags.
The guy that designed the americas 911 memorial was thrown in prison and held for 6 months under the Patriot Act until the committee agreed not to use the design. It really happened. No conspiracy,fact.

I'd tell you why the design was hidden but it's too hard to handle the truth.

*Off Topic Board Drama Deleted*

Mod Edit: Removed off topic content. Please use the Gripe/Idea button or U2U's to Staff to air any complaints.

p.s. The on topic content of your post remains intact.


[edit on 15/9/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by reallivespook

I'd tell you why the design was hidden but it's too hard to handle the truth.

Besides, the moderators on this board tend to delete my posts because I don't talk about conspiracy theories. I pass along facts. Provable, verifiable facts. But they get deleted before you can see them. NOW THATS A STRANGE CONSPIRACY!!!



Go on, have a crack anyway. If it's solid information i'm sure you'll get support by posting it.

Nothing is to hard to handle on a Conspiracy website! That's what it's for!


As for www.americas911memorial.com well i think that's a pretty crap design anyway, doesn't seem very professionally designed, i'd vote for the cresent - atleast it's not propagating the "lets Roll" lie.




[edit on 15-9-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by reallivespook

besides, the moderators on this board tend to delete my posts because I don't talk about conspiracy theories. I pass along facts. Provable, verifiable facts. But they get deleted before you can see them. NOW THATS A STRANGE CONSPIRACY!!!


Could you actually provide verifiable facts then?

So far in this thread you have not done so.

(Apologies for further derailing the thread...that wasn't my intent, djohnston
)



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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He hopes to raise 60 million dollars to help pay for the construction of the national memorial in Shanksville, PA at the flight 93 crash site and to help buy the land necessary to create the national park.
www.americas911memorial.com...

Sixty million dollars? For what ?? It's not a very good design, and land should be dirt cheap in that area...there's nothing out there:


Population (year 2000): 245, Est. population in July 2002: 238 (-2.9% change)
Males: 119 (48.6%), Females: 126 (51.4%)

Elevation: 2230 feet

County: Somerset

Land area: 0.2 square miles

Zip code: 15560

Median resident age: 35.5 years
Median household income: $29,792 (year 2000)
Median house value: $59,500 (year 2000

I smell profiteering...



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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but Shroud is correct
.

One of the individuals I worked with had a brother in MI who was on duty during 9/11 and I remember he telling me how the plane was shot down because it was heading towards Washington, DC. I remember his reaction when he told me........it was not made up.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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I'm going to have to say that a 'red crescent' is probably not the best symbol to be placing in this memorial. Yeah, we can't please everyone, but we can try a little harder than that I would think... The memorial even has 'crescent' in the name. I think we can be a little more sensitive to those who lost loved ones.

If they mooshed the center of the 'crescent' or elongated it to make it more of a rambling 'embrace', I think it would clear it up. Of course they'd have to change the name. But I'm sure they can come up with something.



"You can call it all kinds of things. We can call it an arc. We can call it a circle. We can call it the edge of the bowl. The label doesn't matter to us in terms of intent.


But the title is the 'Crescent of Embrace' not the 'Arc of Embrace' or the 'Circle of Embrace' or the 'Edge of the Bowl of Embrace'

It's a beautiful symbol. I love the colors and the feel of it, but the freakin' RED CRESCENT right in the center of the thing does put a question or two into my mind.





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