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Environmental Devistation Coverup

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posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 09:54 PM
Yes please do continue to post xgovgirl.

I apologize for my previous post, I was in a highly cranky state of mind and over-reacted to information overload.

I would respectfully request that you find some way to synopsize all of the information you have and give us a roadmap of sorts to sift through it. I suggest a new header (thread) with a bullet-point list of of pertinant topics, one paragraph each with links to back up each one. No more than ten to start, please.

Again I apologize, it is doubly henious as I was berating people for being snipey just yesterday or so. Please continue to post!

Bad decisions are caused by lack of experience: experience is gained by making bad decisions. Oops.

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 09:59 PM
Thanks Mirlin, I'll tell you I've been very overwhelmed from the moment I saw the footage on the news and watched the people waiting for the relief. I am x Air Force and I worked in a job called Aerial Delivery. I'm pretty up on everything we had to take care of different issues at hand as you read in my letter to congress. The resources, supplies, equipment, manpower, etc. I was waiting for 4 days to see Pararescue and the helicopters I'm so familiar with, if not the C130's come in to air drop what we had only flight minutes away from this area. That was my job and I'm no expert but I know what I DIDN'T see. So many people right now are fighting about who is to blame, inside my heart I know who is to blame. There are various means that we have to drop supplies, they were not put into effect until the public was in outrage. I also know how quickly we could have acted. I know for FACT there was a time delay, for the life of me I just have not been able to find reason for it. This is what began my thought process of WHY. So many people are going back and forth with the blame game right now, and I too felt race may have been an issue at first because I said to myself "why the heck...." and that went on for hours and days for me.

Because of all the questions that went through my mind, it brought on an intense look at everything that has taken place, the entire picture, looking at every issue. I've also confirmed all of my beliefs unfortunately with people at various active duty bases so I know for fact the call to order was not placed upon Active Duty until after the public was already screaming. Why it wasn't done from the very minute we knew the widespread damage done, is what I've wracked my brain with since the moment I knew of the devastation. This is all opinion now but what I am feeling with my heart as truth so I can't really offer much information beyond what I believe has gone wrong here. I knew there was some kind of intentional delay, and I thought "race?" but why! Actually more like "how dare them" because I knew what I did and what we have available and what we train for. The relief efforts are used across the globe all the time so why weren't they put into use immediately. The call to active duty came so late that I couldn't find reasoning. In all this wracking in my mind this is what I've come up with, knowing there was an intentional TIME frame, the reason as to why. I completely see fault in the Commander in Chief for not putting the Active Duty military into play by giving the order to back up the National Guard in their duties. At no other time would we allow for our "men" to deal with such an issue alone, I don't care about the state/federal issue because even with all the red tape and such, at no other time would this have happened if there wasn't a reason to have such inaction as we all saw.

I couldn't for the life of me see the reasons as to WHY and with the background I have it just made me want to jump into the television. I cried for days and days because I know what we had available at Kirtland Air Force Base and Patrick Air Force Base alone that could have done a hell of a lot for the relief efforts. That is what our men and women train for all the time. Aerial Delivery is a part of a Special Operations Unit out there, we had PLENTY of trained and qualified persons to take care of some necessary issues at hand. Hell, I didn't even see a damn 53 helicopter we had for days and in speaking with one person there it was also confirmed those copters just sat there in the hangers.

I've had a lot of my own soul searching in this and like I said I'm no expert but I'll tell you 100% fact there was a time delay and it had nothing to do with the issue of state/federal. I knew there was a reason all along, and now this is the conclusion I've come to. There was a reason to NOT act as swiftly and a**-kicking as our military always does, but now I see it must have had to do with the environment there. As things began to occur such as pulling people out of their homes, I knew there was more to that water then just "toxic chemicals". I don't remember anytime that the govt would step in and force people out of their homes because of sewage and waste, if that was the case we would step into every flood across the country. The only time I can think anything like that takes place is when there is nuclear contamination.

After days and days wracking my mind (and nights), I went to go to sleep about 5 nights ago and right when I laid down into bed I said "NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS" I jumped up and rushed to the computer and haven't stopped the research since.

I WANT to find the answer because I know there was a time delay, I don't think I could live the rest of my life without a damn answer for this one. I am VERY understanding of the idea that military cover-ups do exist, hell I was a part of one myself. I will say right off the bat I am very interested in military issues/veterans issues and I fight for rights everyday. I run my own little Veterans group and most of my time is consumed with researching, politics, foreign affairs issues, and military issues. I don't spend much time on the "conspiracy theory" issues but have a few internet friends who are very into that kind of stuff. I've spoken out about military issues on online forums and such and although I have my own person issues with some negative things that take place within the structure everyday, I try to work hard for those people who take the oath and serve and try to protect their benefits such as health care, education, etc. I also fight like a champ to keep people from having to go through what I went through in the military. It is a long story and I don't want to bore anyone but I will say cover-ups do exist.

I just never thought I'd get too into the cover-ups or conspiracy theories but in my brain search since Hurricane Katrina I think I've stumbled onto one. I could be completely wrong but most of the time I'm right unfortunately
lol (aren't we all right all the time haha). It's funny because I've talked on some forums before and I remember someone saying once, "you all bash her for issues she brings up and then turn on the news a few months later and find out she was right". Not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty aware of military issues and such as I keep up with them all the time now, it is pretty much a sick hobby of mine now. I also keep up on world events, news, and foreign affairs.

With that said I don't have TOO much to offer beyond what I've gathered and my thoughts on this. I believe a lot of times in the past with anything "nuclear" the negative aspects are not brought to the eyes of the public for fear that the public will not support them. With all the protesting and environmental issues that have come up over the years, those in the big money making plants really like to keep a low profile on such. The commander in chief of the military did fail to execute our forces fast enough (just know there are PLENTY of military folks serving right now that want to just jump out there and say it, but unfortunately they don't have the same rights to freedom of speech that we do. That is why I spoke for THEM and for myself in writing Congress)....I just need the answer as to why. This is the best I can come up with and it puts me a bit more at ease inside now knowing that there was in fact a REASON beyond issues such as race and other things that have come up. But on the other hand I see that there is even more injustice done because of the fact 1. those who went in for relief were not made aware, which includes National Guard and Active Duty forces and 2. the American people are not being told of this great threat

I think they keep things such as this a secret, or at least in the past they have and were able to keep it under wraps for quiet some time but THIS TIME we need to know NOW! If what I make of this is right, the entire country needs to be made aware of this before it is too late.

There are so many reasons THIS TIME to know, in the past we've had some isolated mistakes but this time the damage is far too spread. It's funny but that thing I said about stuff being distributed out to the public, just today I heard something about Folgers Coffee prices going up but that they are getting their coffee distributed. It makes me wonder about the great danger there really is in distributing stuff from this area throughout the country.

I'm also keeping a good look out on the Center of Disease Control to watch for anything that could be popping up that would be related to the pollutants in the water. If you go to CDC, it was posted today that 30 people have infections of the external skin. I'm just waiting to find information that I can pinpoint that this is the case. I fear though that
if it is, it is already way too late. I can't even find blame anymore if this
is the case, as much as I want to take out the Commander in Chief by the neck for all of this, I fear even more that he may have just been doing
what was not send in more troops right from the get-go.

I just don't know anymore I'm at a loss but this is what I'm pin pointing as the problem. It is only my opinion.

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:06 PM
no problem opensecret1150 I understand completely I'd probably jump all over me too for posting the way I have. I just didn't know how to present it so that people would listen. I tried to get some to care about it on myspace but it wasn't the place. I don't even know if there is anything that can be done but from the looks of it we shouldn't be starting up those reactors at all, it would only add to the already huge overwhelming problem at hand.

I'll get everything together and post it here in link form within the next hour or so, I have absolutely no order here

Thanks and sorry again!

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:39 PM
Looking forward to seeing what you have.....

Already have a list of questions for you, but I'll wait until you post what you have.

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:53 PM
Still gathering here but here are some beginning links (trying to get the linking and images down on my side)

International Atomic Energy Agency

Scenario FP Wash-off of 90Sr and 137Cs from the Floodplain into the Pripyat River
"In the case of a potential accident, the floodplain becomes a long-term source of contamination for the river water"

"Le Blayais" reactor France December 1999

Scenario FP Wash-off of 90Sr and 137Cs from the Floodplain into the Pripyat River
Report on flooding of Le Blayais power plant on 27 december 1999

UN convenes scientists to study nuclear power plant risks from natural disasters

The five-day International Workshop on External Flooding Hazards at Nuclear Power Plant Sites will begin on 29 August at India´s Kalpakkam nuclear power plant, which withstood the giant waves that engulfed the small township, home to India´s centre for atomic research.

A dangerous gamble: Nuclear power, earthquakes and tsunamis

(read also "Nuclear power plants situated near large bodies of water" in this article)

"we can appreciate the fact that nuclear power installations sited near earthquake faults and large bodies of water are a threat to humanity and the health of the environment globally"

UN convenes scientists to study nuclear power plant risks from natural disasters

"That event unnerved the International Atomic Energy Agency, which plans to hold a scientific workshop in August on flooding hazards to nuclear plants"

[edit on 14-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 11:32 PM
just found this while I was going over some stuff. this gives me even more reason to be suspicious!!!!!!!! Homeland Security issues increased or not call me paranoid!!!!!

Published: September 14, 2005

Federal Experts to Assess Security at Indian Point

And look who owns that plant, ENTERGY! And look where it is, right off the shore and near a large river.

"Alex Matthiessen, Riverkeeper's president, called the response "a farcical show of force to give the impression that they are actually protecting the plant." He said that the group's own boat passed by the plant about 100 times a year, and the group had concluded that the security is "very, very minimal.""

HMMMMMMM boy do I smell a cover up now.......

I wonder what the hell is going on with our plants in NO.... something HAS to be up!

"In the next 18 months, federal agencies will conduct similar reviews of all the nuclear power plants in the country. The reviews started in May, with Indian Point the eighth of more than 70 to be assessed. The Department of Homeland Security, which was created after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, will also investigate the security at chemical plants, liquid-natural-gas facilities and transportation networks, Mr. Whitworth said."

I call BS on this man Whitworth.

I doubt they have even been looking at these plants -Indian Point is the 8th reviewed since May. Why the jump from the Nuclear Reg. Commission, the Federal Govt, Energty Corp. to all rush off to the Indian Point Plant? They have been screaming there forever!

I think there is a lot of BS floating around I think something happened, and I think they are headed to the other plants that are in the same situation as the Waterford 3 plant and other 2 Entergy Corp. plants in NO.

I think they went underwater and because of the damage they are now rushing to catch up. The International Atomic Energy Agency only called out the flood warning on August 25th. We've ignored prior warnings, now I'm quiet positive we have a major problem over on the Gulf Coast.

With this article and the recent poll I heard on tv after Hurricane Katrina, asking the American public how they feel about Nuclear Power plants (as if they care) I think they may have been trying to get an overall "feel" for the way America thinks right now before they slap us all with the cold hard truth of what is going on in NO and the plants there.

This is all too suspicious for me and I'm pretty much against a lot of conspiracy theories. To me this looks like we already have a "nuked" problem on our hands on the Gulf. Sorry to use that word but that is
what it is starting to look like.

Twenty million people live within a 50-mile radius of Indian Point's reactors which are located in northern Westchester County adjacent to the Hudson River

The area of Long Island gets hit with Hurricanes quiet often, that is where I
grew up and spent most of my life. I wouldn't be surprised now if we have a major problem in NO after the plants went under water. Now they are rushing off to plants they never gave a hoot about! Why because that plant has a lot in common with the Waterford Plant speaking geographically.

And what a coincidence look where Ophilia is projected now.
I think their sudden interest is because there are always Hurricanes
headed in that direction up north.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:30 AM
iv'e looked over at least half your info, and i'd see no logical reason why this sinario wouldn't have been givin the highest priority prior to the flood. obviously there would have been cost issues when considering relocating, that would have made any buisnessman procrastinate until forced to spend the money. the one photo looked as though the plant was undergoing construction (scafolding around the exterior), how old are the plants surrounding NO, on your map of plant sites across the country, the bulk of the plant are further up the coast away from heavy weather. this could be due to demand, i dont know the US's population spread. although i completely agree that this is definatly a disaster if there was contamination, i don't see any imidiate deaths duriving from this, im mean cant you detect radiation that is airborne and breathable? yes the waste could contaminate food, but that is something that would not show it's effects untill much further down the road.

are farms and fisheries been given any sort of warning or order to destroy all stock and wait for further analysis before continuing operation, if not once again thank you america for believing you know whats best for everyone (your own economy) you banned our beef (i'm canadian) because of a couple of mad cows, warning citizens that exposier could lead to seriouse illness, and yet you won't give any sort of warning to your own food being contaminated.

years down the road when more and more babies start comin out with six toes, and both sex organs, if sure saing "oops... sorry, i except respocibilty. all possible countermeasures have been brought into action" will be a breaze after witnessing the responcible actions of the US gov. in iraq and the katrina aftermath.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 12:58 AM
I'm really not too sure about some of your questions regarding the actual structures prior to. But I do know we have only been told of things that get exported in through the Gulf. Oil, Coffee, Grains, just about anything and everything. The only mention I've heard of any imports being distributed was the Folgers coffee thing. If we have a major problem on our hands like I believe then we aren't being told ANYTHING!

I am curious why my point ratings here is going down by the minute. I guess no one sees this as being a problem. So I guess maybe I'm way off on this but it is just my gut instinct.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:05 AM
Your points are partially related to how many posts you make and replies you recive. I think the negative number you have is related to the WARN you received. Points aren't really all that important. I'd ignore it for now....They'll grow soon enough.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:10 AM
Did you get a look at that article that was in the news today!!! Boy does that make me even more curious now. It just doesn't seem right. I just feel like this is my answer to WHY now. I don't think after having been in AD for the AF that I could deal with thoughts of those people out there stranded for the rest of my life just knowing there was a time delay. I've known since this all happened that it was 100% non-action from our big guys, but why was the reason. I really think I can see it now as being the issue at hand. It just makes me even more sick now thinking about how this has been handled all around. There is a responsibility to the people of this country to tell us if there is a nuclear issue going on, not just these pathetic "waste" reports. They need to throw in the word nuclear in front of that and address a possible contamination issue.

Also one of the things I have wondered all along was if we had a major structure completely leveled. It just made me curious when Florida was put on the light conservation thing. It added to my questions.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 02:06 AM
how about getting geiger counters into the hands of citizens' groups in the area?

apparently these people are down there:

apparently they have supplies and a steady stream of volunteers heading down there. Michael Moore is also down there:

some real/independant figures from down there could be really helpful..

keep it up, and deny ignorance

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 03:34 AM
I found another article about contamination of NO. I cannot say anything about its credibility , because it comes from Rense
Anyway I decided to post it - maybe there is something there to help in your research?

The Agriculture Street Landfill (ASL) is situated on a 95-acre site in New Orleans, Orleans Parish, Louisiana. The ASL is a federally registered Superfund site, and is on the National Priorities List of highly contaminated sites requiring cleanup and containment. A few years ago the site, which sits underneath and beside houses and a school, was fenced and covered with clean soil. However, three feet or more of flood waters could potentially cause the landfill's toxic contents - the result of decades of municipal and industrial waste dumping - to leach out.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 10:11 AM
How many powerplants are in N.O. and are they all flooded? Assuming that they are flooded and the flood waters are all over the city, it's reasonable to deduce that there would be exposure to "toxic contaminants" beyond those reported in the media. Naturally, the FEDS would want to put a lid on this. Perhaps this is why they don't want reporters filming the recovering of bodies. Fear of radiation exposure would certainly be a reason for not deploying relief to the victims of Katrina. The attitude could have been, "what the heck, they're going to die anyway". But then there was a public uproar as we all saw the situation on the various news channels. Bush sooner or later had to go there. Of course, now he'd be exposed too, but then he's probably already served his purpose.

Can low level radiation be detected with a gieger counter, or does the radiation exposure level have to be at a certain standard before it can be detected? In otherwords like it's been suggested, if a reporter with a gieger counter were in N.O. and not directly in front of the Powerplant that's flooded, would the device detect radiation?

It's going to be difficult at best for the Government to keep a lid on this, if your theories are correct, XGOVGIRL.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Mirlin11]

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:03 PM

Originally posted by XGovGirl
Nuclear Plant sites have gone up in flames not just "chemical" as we are being told . . .

Nuclear power plant sites went up in flames not to mention being completely flooded something we knew nothing about the devistating effects of before.

Do you have any data to support this claim?

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 01:56 PM

The aerial photo of Waterford 3 after the storm.

The reactor is the big round building in the middle of the top portion of the picture.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 02:28 PM

Johnson said the EPA is also taking air samples and using sophisticated detection systems to determine whether there might have been radiological releases from hospitals or university research facilities. So far no evidence of such releases has been found, he said.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 02:51 PM

Originally posted by XGovGirl
Nuclear Plant sites have gone up in flames not just "chemical" as we are being told....... just as we are told "waste" and not also "nuclear waste" by the media just "toxic waste". Each Nuclear plant has 47 sites within itself.

Gas leaks are the least of our worries now I believe everyone is lying from FEMA straight on up.

Nuclear power plant sites went up in flames not to mention being completely flooded something we knew nothing about the devistating effects of before.

Entergy boasted about "no damage" on their website, this is Entergy's idea of "no damage" do you believe them?

photos" target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Look to other areas where their plant is located and ask yourself if you truly believe their idea of "no damage". No damage does not include flooding, nor fire. Just as long as they can get the electricity up and running again and has zero to do with our health. Including log reports from the Nuclear Reg. Commission.

According to the Entergy site, that is the Patterson generating station, which is not a Nuke plant.

More info:


September 9, 2005 4:41 p.m.

CHICAGO -- Entergy Corp. (ETR) is just beginning to assess damage at one of three flooded southeast Louisiana power plants, and the future of the facilities remains in question until their condition is known, spokeswoman Kelle Barfield said Friday.

The three plants - two in New Orleans and one in Plaquemines Parish - are all older and infrequently used, and two of them have small generating capacities. They were all flooded by Hurricane Katrina and knocked out of service indefinitely, and Entergy isn't yet sure whether they can be recovered, though it hopes to fix the biggest plant, Barfield said.

"Frankly, that's part of the assessment phase," she said. "What is it going to take to refurbish?"

The flooded facilities include the 918-megawatt Michoud plant in New Orleans, the 159-megawatt Paterson plant in New Orleans, and the tiny 19-megawatt Buras plant southeast of the city in Plaquemines Parish.

All three plants are mostly powered with natural gas or oil, except one small unit at Paterson that exclusively runs on oil. The three plants run mainly during times of high power demand, Barfield said. Steadily receding water in New Orleans has finally allowed access to Michoud, which, given its large size, would most likely be the focus of recovery efforts, Barfield said. "I think the intention is for it to be recoverable," she said.

There's less certainty for the two smaller plants, though there's no way to really know whether they are worth the cost of recovery until the damage and cost of repairs have been truly assessed, Barfield said. A photo on Entergy's Web site shows the Paterson plant partially submerged in the New Orleans flood waters.

Paterson's three units started operations between 1950 and 1967. The three Michoud units began operations between 1957 and 1967. Buras started in 1971.

Entergy had seventeen gas and oil-fired units in the path of Hurricane Katrina, including the seven units at Michoud, Paterson and Buras. Barfield declined to comment on the operational status of other facilities, but said the seven units at those three plants are the only ones that have yet to receive offsite power, which is necessary for operations.

Entergy has said that it has enough power to meet demand, which is still restrained by significant power outages. The utility saw 1.1 million customers lose service during the storm, and as of midday Friday still had about 346,000 customers without power.

I hope that helps.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 05:28 PM
hmm i dunno i still dont buy it i feel like somethings up. might just be intense paranoia but i just dont trust it all

New Orleans Air Found Not Overly Polluted

[edit on 15-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 05:52 PM
From Entergy Corp's Q&A on website

Q. How is the chain reaction in a nuclear power plant controlled?

A. In all reactors, control rods are used to control the chain reaction. Control rods are inserted between the rods which contain the uranium fuel. Operators can rapidly shut down the reactor at any time by operating controls that insert the control rods.

In a pressurized water reactor like ANO and Waterford 3, lowering the control rods or increasing the boron concentration decreases the chain reaction. Raising the control rods or decreasing the concentration of boron increases the chain reaction.

In a boiling water nuclear reactor like River Bend and Grand Gulf, reactor power is controlled by increasing or decreasing the flow of water through the reactor core.

Q. How much of the electricity generated in the United States is from nuclear energy?

A. Approximately 20% of the electricity generated in the U.S. comes from nuclear energy.

A. A nuclear power plant operates much like other generating plants. The difference is the heat source. The fuel, Uranium, undergoes a process called Fission which heats water and turns it into steam. The steam then turns the blades of the turbine which spins the shaft of a generator. In the generator, a magnetic field and coils of wire interact to produce electricity.

Q. What about the buildings at a nuclear power plant? Could a force of nature destroy them?

A. The buildings on the nuclear island, fuel handling building, reactor containment building and reactor auxiliary buildings, all rest on a common reinforced concrete slab that is several feet thick. They are built to demanding nuclear construction specifications.

(From the Nuclear Commission Logs- one of the Auxiliary Buildings was listed as flooded out emergency declared)

Q. What happens to the used nuclear fuel?

A. The fuel is removed from the reactor and stored in the fuel handling building in the spent fuel pool. This facility is located on site. The long range plan is for fuel to eventually be shipped to a federal storage facility. For several years, scientists have been testing and politicians have been debating a possible location in the Yucca Mountain area of Nevada.

posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 05:58 PM
Also about that photo, although it looks like it wasn't flooded look how close to the water it was. I doubt that it wasn't, if that picture was taken recently the water probably receeded already.

"The Pressurized Water Reactor (PWR) has 3 separate cooling systems. Only 1 is expected to have radioactivity - the Reactor Coolant System.

The Reactor Coolant System, shown inside the Containment, consists of 2, 3, or 4 Cooling "Loops" connected to the Reactor, each containing a Reactor Coolant Pump, and Steam Generator. The Reactor heats the water that passes upward past the fuel assemblies from a temperature of about 530F to a temperature of about 590F. Boiling, other than minor bubbles called nucleate boiling, is not allowed to occur. Pressure is maintained by a Pressurizer (not shown) connected to the Reactor Coolant System. Pressure is maintained at approximately 2250 pounds per square inch through a heater and spray system in the pressurizer. The water from the Reactor is pumped to the steam generator and passes through tubes. The Reactor Cooling System is expected to be the only one with radioactive materials in it. Typically PWRs have 2, 3, or 4 reactor cooling system loops inside the containment.

Also look no regard what-so-ever for "restarting" against what the IAEA and everyone else suggestions NOT to do after flooding

Entergy Prepares to Restart Nuclear Plant

Tue Sep 6, 4:46 PM ET
CHICAGO - Entergy Corp. is preparing its 1,100-megawatt Waterford nuclear plant near New Orleans for restart after it shut before Hurricane Katrina hit last week, a company executive said Tuesday.

Call me crazy but I have this new lack of trust for those such the Federal Emergency Management Agency and after reading the logs and other info about the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission I don't trust them either. I wonder if the International Atomic Energy Agency would give them the a-OK on re-starting.

All I see those guys in for is the long haul money despite whatever is at stake.

"Entergy said it's seeking "new and creative" ways to handle the financial impact of Katrina, one of the worst storms in the United States in more than a century."

Financial impact they said it themselves, what about health impact?

"Complicating the recovery of restoration and repair costs and the collection of lost revenue is the displacement for what may be several months of 350,000 customers Entergy serves in and around New Orleans."

"Owing to the hurricane, Entergy said it's unable to reaffirm previously issued 2005 earnings estimates."

But I thought Entergy had "no damage" according to them?

The bull stops here! These guys are full of it....

[edit on 15-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

[edit on 15-9-2005 by XGovGirl]

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