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Nick Berg

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posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by xeroxed88
I watched the video when it was released. I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember seeing Nick Berg move while he sat down... unless the tape was shot twice? (First shoot: Nick alive. Second: Nick dead)

I have to agree, the video stinks. You would have thought governments spend billions on war, yet they can't even make a believable beheading video. Maybe they ran out of money to fund the special effects department?
(No blood)


Hahaha, the most noticeable was indeed that there was no blood involved....




posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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I think there is a lot more to this whole story than we will ever know. We are ignoring what I feel is a very big piece of information. Several years ago, while attending college (I believe in Oklahoma or a state close-by), Nick Berg allegedly allowed a "stranger" on a bus with him to use his laptop computer. That "stranger" turned out to be none-other than alleged September 11th 20th Hijacker, Zacarius Moussaui. When interviewed by the FBI, Nick Berg claimed that he didn't know and had never met the man before the incident on the bus. He claimed that Moussaui approached him and asked to use his laptop, and internet connection. Berg allowed him and Moussaui checked and/or sent e-mails.

Now if a complete stranger approached you on a bus, or anywhere for that matter, and asked if he could use your laptop computer and internet connection, what would you say? What would you think? Would you yourself feel weird about approaching a complete stranger and asking to use their computer? I just think there is something really fishy here as far as Nick Berg and terrorism is concerned. For all we know he could have been a terrorist-sympathizer. He could have approached terrorists in Iraq about aiding them in operations there, or even here at home. Maybe thinking he was an American spy, or just not wanting his assistance, it was decided he would serve a better purpose by beheading him on camera. That's just one of my many theories on the subject.

There is just a TON of unanswered questions regarding Nick Berg, his death, and even his earlier meeting with the alleged 20th hijacker and al Qaida member, Zacarius Moussaui. I know that originally, around the time of his beheading, Jayna Davis (author of "The Third Terrorist" and an expert on the conspiracies and Islamic terrorists surrounding the Oklahoma City Bombing) was on the case and was investigating Nick Berg's ties to terrorism. I know she had additional information at the time that I cannot recall. However, I never heard anything from her again regarding the Nick Berg issue in the months that followed. For all I know she could still be on the case. Hopefully she uncovers something and can connect some of the dots for us.



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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With all due respect Leon,

I find your arguments to be rather lacking, and here's why...

A: The papers:

Without being able to see the actual writing on the papers themselves, any speculation about what is on, or not on them is just that; pure speculation. There is a myriad of possible reasons why someone would refer to their papers is just such a way, not the least of which, is that he wasn't reading from the papers, but referring to quickly jotted and disjointed notes about what he wanted to say. Thus, I'd have to say that argument is pretty weak.

B: Mr. Berg was incredibly pale, and therefore already dead:

This one just doesn't fly as well, but for a number of reasons..the first being, that a pale complexion does not indicate death. It could have been from being extremely scared, malnourishment, or even just an artifact of the washed out colors of the video. Second, even if one concedes that Mr. Berg was already dead, I see no way in which this could be construed as evidence that he was killed by U.S. forces. It is just as likely that the terrorists killed Mr. Berg with a gunshot or other means, and then beheaded him for the video. Furthermore, if I recall correctly, Mr. Berg did indeed move at the beginning of the video, and therefore the tape had to have been edited at some point if Mr. Berg was killed before he was beheaded.

C: The Terrorists behind Mr. Berg were big:

I think ShadowXIX has already proven that the "fat terrorsists" are not indicative of them being U.S. forces. And here again, the video is of such poor quality that one cannot be sure that the terrorists are not wearing ammo vests or some other item underneath their visible clothing.

D: The orange suit is similiar to those issued to prisoners by U.S. forces:

This I think is your stongest argument, although I think you'll find that it too doesn't hold up to scrutiny. In one of the earlier threads, there was some discussion of this, and there were photos posted of a popular Indian/arab garb called a kurta. One could very well argue that the properties of Mr. Berg's clothing (reflective, and light) were more like said kurta, than the jumpsuits issued to Iraqi prisoners.

E: No blood squirt from the inflicted neck wound:

Once again, I have to refer you to the earlier thread, in which I posted the comments of a fairly well known (in the U.S.) forensic pathologist, one Cyril Wecht who emphatically stated that the video did show a decapitation. I personally have no first hand experience in decapitating a living creature, but I would feel comfortable stating that unless that artery was severed in that first stab, that it is at least possible that the expected jet of blood could have been released into the throat, rather than exiting the body at high speed. Further, if one concedes your earlier point that Nick Berg was dead before the decapitation, then the point it mute.

F: The Nikes:

No offence Leon, but this argument is ridiculous. For one to asssume that the presence of Nike footwear on the terrorists is indicative of them being U.S. forces, one would have to assume that Nikes are not available anywhere in the Middle East. This is just plain wrong. In fact, Nikes while not nearly as popular as Adidas, are still none the less available in Sudia Arabia, Lebanon, the United Arab Emirates and other Mid-East countries.

So while I do find the murder of Mr. Berg to be an interesting mystery, I just don't see any evidence that points to it being an American operation.

-Cypher



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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Thanks for your reply, while I took a look a second and a third time I also found
out much of my points weren't correct. At first site, all these things fitted the video.
I didn't take a closer look at the video though since it's still horrible to watch,
wether he's dead or alive. I've also checked other running topics about this theme
and that showed allot things I said would be right in the first instance
but could be rejected after closer looks and analyses. I'm glad you took the time
to clear up allot of things, although certain things still bothers my mind and pieces
are still missing from the entire puzzle.

Thanks again



posted on Sep, 21 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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Leon,

I have to say it's nice to see a new member who can take constructive criticism of his arguments. It's refreshing.


If your interested in the Nick Berg beheading, you may want to look deeper into his alledged ties to terrorist organizations. It has been alleged that Mr. Berg was arrested and then subsequently kidnapped because of his ties to some shady characters. Most notably, as Rasputin said, Zacarius Moussaui. I also recall, that he had allegedly met with some individuals who had ties to the insurgency in Iraq during his time there. IMHO: I think this is a more realistic possiblilty than that of the CIA killing and beheading him. But in the end who knows....

Anyways, welcome to ATS.

Mazzel...

-Cypher



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